Gonnes?

[HA GOTEM I DIDNT ROLL]

https://neverwintervault.org/project/nw ... m-overhaul

[R0GUE]

I like some of those, but the one with the wolf face looks like a modded modern submachine gun.

[Subutai]

All the ones in the image above are at least several centuries later than anything else in NWN, including the anachronistic rapier. They're all at least 17th and 18th century firearms. The sawed-off shotgun look double-barreled which puts it in the late 19th century, and the wolf one is some kind of made up sub machine gun. I'd really prefer something that looks like their more historical equivalent for the roughly 14th-15th century technology of FR.

[monkeywithstick]

So are door locks and frock coats. Historical epochs hold up poorly in DnD.
Also some of those appear to be wheel-locks which appeared pretty early (EDIT: checked and it's 1500). Wheel-locks look way more complex than a lot of later firearms because they were stupidly over-engineered and too expensive to use as line weapons.)

I do agree the SMG one can probably get in the bin

[Kalopsia]

Theoretically gonnes could get their own weapon category with haks, to fire multiple times a round (at lower damage).

[Kuma]

arquebuses are canon in FR, we don't need to keep pretending we're 14th century europe

also, that axe gun is an absolutely amazing look and i want a dwarf with one now

[HA GOTEM I DIDNT ROLL]

Theoretically gonnes could get their own weapon category with haks, to fire multiple times a round (at lower damage).

I have experienced this before! It is possible to create a gun that uses a horn as its supply, and one that you also have to manually reload and stock powder into as well.

https://neverwintervault.org/project/nw ... owder-guns - was the model used, I'm not sure if the script is there with the horn of powder + ball ammunition however.

The practice was: equip weapon, use black powder horn on gun (free action w/animation), put ball ammunition in bolt slot of inventory (free action w/animation), and then click on the target. So in theory you could do alot of damage if you were quick.

And if you put the ball in before the powder, the gun would backfire and you'd have to clean it, spending two rounds to do so.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

I think a gonne is supposed to be a cross between a cannon and a gun. Loading such a thing could be a free action even with rapid reload.

If we are talking about actaul guns and not gonnes. I feel like it would be such a major script rlocess that would need to be a developer(s) pet project/passion to do properly.

Pathfinder for example made it so the touch attacks happened in only the first range increment (nwn has no range increments) while requiring rapid reload plus more pricey special prepacked paper cartridged with the bullet and powder inside making a 10% chance of gun misfiring on every shot.

[MalKalz]

The original link is also from NWN2. Not NWN1.

We would have to see if the models would play nice with NWN1 if we were to consider it.

[Subutai]

I don't 100% disagree with the notion that historical epochs hold up poorly in DnD, but I do think it's important to stick roughly to an era, and especially not reach too far into the future. I'll try to at least make the start of a case here, without spending an absurdly long time writing a reply.

So are door locks

Door locks have been around since several hundred years BC. Modern tumbler locks have only existed since the 1800's, but other various locks, such as warded locks, existed long before then. They're certainly much more common on Arelith than they were in real life, but door locks absolutely existed, and were very much the norm in castles and such.

and frock coats.

I agree, and I've never really been a fan of the frock coats since their introduction, since they very clearly don't match the rest of the setting. I don't think the argument is quite the same as door locks, since it's much more a matter of style than a matter of technological ability, but as far as maintaining a standard aesthetic beyond, "Whatever looks cool", we go a long ways towards an immersive, cohesive world. Compare and contrast with several other popular NWN RP servers with lots of anachronistic clothing choices, and you'll find Arelith has a much more cohesive appearance, without people running around in outfits from every conceivable period of time.

So that's my first main point. Keeping things in roughly the 15th century, technology-wise, keeps us somewhat grounded in terms of maintaining a consistent setting. We want to be lore-friendly, yes, but we also don't want to become a meme server where we just start adding highly anachronistic outfits and technology just because it looks cool. Part of what makes Arelith great is that you aren't just going to run into obviously 18th century pirates with gold buttons and tricorn hats, or 17th century nobles with giant poofy collars and big curly hair. Everything is more or less the same aesthetic that Bioware designed the game with, which they certainly designed to be consistent in appearance.

I'm going to make one more last set of points about your post in particular, then move on to a final point.

Also some of those appear to be wheel-locks which appeared pretty early (EDIT: checked and it's 1500). Wheel-locks look way more complex than a lot of later firearms because they were stupidly over-engineered and too expensive to use as line weapons.)

R1C1 is practically a fairly typical blunderbuss from the early 18th century, so very definitely a flintlock.

R2C4 is, as I said above, obviously a sawed-off shotgun. Double barrel shotguns weren't invented until very late in the 19th century, but even single barrel shotguns weren't invented until the 19th century. You could fire shot with a musket or arquebus, sure, but this gun in particular is a shotgun.

R2C3 doesn't need discussion.

R2C2 is interesting. While it's very clearly a 17th century German axe pistol (it's based on a pretty common replica people like), and therefore this one in particular is a flintlock, I want to address it later on because it's neat.

That leaves us with R1C2-4, and R2C1.Of these four that could be wheel-locks, we can actually see the mechanism very well three of the first three pretty well and they're all flintlocks. The fourth, R2C1, is just a brighter version of R1C3, so is also a flintlock.

So I'd argue that none of these are wheel-locks by any measure, and are all quite definitely flintlocks.

This brings me to my last point, which is the impact of technology on the setting. The Forgotten Realms is very much (an attempt at) a medieval setting. It might lack feudalism and have the moral values of a Canadian hippy, but from a technological perspective, it has castles, crossbows, catapults, and everything you'd expect from someone whose setting is based on Gary Gygax's relatively tenuous grasp on what constituted medieval.

However not-really-medieval as it is, it's very, very clearly not pre-modern. And while it could be argued that there's nothing inherently pre-modern about flintlock pistols, since they could use the same technology but a different type of firing mechanism, and that's more or less true. But I'd argue that by establishing that Arelith has developed flintlock technology, that we really end up in a situation where we either we ignore every aspect of wheellock and flintlock technology that made them so popular, or we open the door to completely changing how the setting works.

Hand cannons and arquebuses already in the 14th and 15th centuries were capable of blasting through plate armor. However, due both to social norms (their use was frowned upon, similar to crossbows, since they gave the common man the advantage over the traditional knights) and just because they were hard to use. Casting methods of the time didn't allow for consistent bore widths, so the individual hand cannoneer had to shape the Pufferfish to fit their weapon, so they couldn't mass produce ammunition well. Gun powder was expensive, making hand cannons was expensive, and neither hand cannons nor arquebuses were particularly accurate, even compared to the extremely inaccurate muskets that followed them.

Also, they were really hard to fire. You had to put powder in a little exposed pan, keep it balanced there, aim your really heavy weapon, and (early on) use a hand to poke the powder with a lit fuse you were holding, or (later) pull a crossbow-style lever to touch the lit fuse to the powder. If the fuse got wet, it didn't work. If it was a bit misty and the powder was moist, it didn't work. If it did work, the powder lit brightly on fire in front of your eyes, so you'd either keep your eyes on the target and risk lit gunpowder hitting them at worst, or being temporarily blinded at best, or just close your eyes and hope your target didn't move too much.

There were dozens of reasons that full plate armor existed at the same time as hand cannons and arquebuses, but it all depended on the end result of there just not really being that many hand cannons or arquebuses. Why worry that an arquebus ball might pierce your armor when there really just aren't that many arquebuses firing at you, and even if they are, the arquebusier has his eyes closed, and it's probably just going to fire off in the wrong direction anyway?

If we're going to start giving people flintlocks, suddenly we've worked ourselves into a conundrum. If Arelithian smiths can work metal so easily and well that they can make flintlock pistols, then they inherently must have worked out many of the other problems. They've fixed the bore width issues, they're cheaper to make, they're much easier and faster to use, they're more accurate. Now suddenly they're becoming a real, genuine threat. So armor, cities, other adventuring tactics, etc., would all change.

Either that, or they don't change at all, and we're left with "They have flintlocks because flintlocks look cool (arquebuses don't for some reason), but nothing else is allowed to change so there".

We definitely could get into moving up from hand-cannons and arquebuses to wheellocks, and avoid some of the problems (plate armor was more common in the 16th century than the 15th, for example), but it would still take more consideration into which other technologies have developed, which haven't, and why, than it would be to just stick with the Realms-friendly arequebuses.


Edit: I forgot to address the axe-pistol later on. It's neat. I don't think we should have flintlocks, and even wheel-locks should come with a lot of thought and planning into larger technological advancement. But as far as an axe-head being added to an arquebus, I'd love to see dwarves shooting at someone using their dwarven arquebus axe, then flipping it around to use it as an axe. It's cool and seems like a really dwarven thing to do.

[Might-N-Magic]

D&D firearms art, ala Spelljammer.

Starwheel Pistol:


Blunderbuss:

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

Tbis caused me to look up a german revolver made short before 1600. It looks extremely dope lol. Maybe if we had German Gnomes :p

[Subutai]

D&D firearms art, ala Spelljammer.

Napoleonic hippo men! That's just what Arelith's always needed.

[Irongron]

I've really never been at all keen on the gonne. Beyond that guns, of any kind, will never be a thing on Arelith.