Belated Update thoughts: an essay

[this is not for you]

Buckle up kids.


It's been a few weeks since the tornado of feelings and salt that was the Big Update, and I feel like I've settled down enough to talk about it in a constructive way. I will be discussing the UMD/Lore change, how it was handled, and how it effected both my personal gaming experience, the server atmosphere as a whole, and balance.


I've been playing for half a decade now. I'd call myself a veteran. I prefer to play strong builds but I never really utilize it. I'm definitely someone who spends a lot of time RPing and focused on my storytelling rather than grinding dungeons or PvP. The Update essentially took my magehound Azuthan Paladin, someone who really relied on using scrolls for religious RP and doing lectures and made the concept kind of borked. It feels very awkward that I am trying to teach spells from scrolls but I have no method of casting any kind of spell myself. There are methods I can rebuild but it means uninvesting in Spot (which I also took for RP reasons) or cutting corners elsewhere. Feels bad man.

I'm very grateful full rebuilds have been offered, but for my case, dropping paladin is really out of the question because that has huge in game ramifications, and I'd feel icky if I totally rehauled and flipped to a sorcerer or something. As its been stated by the team and Irongron, there's going to be more tweaks and changes going forward, so I'm not even sure if I should rebuild or wait for an update just in case thresholds for scroll use are moved around. Things feel very uncertain and opaque as to whats going on behind the scenes, but we'll touch more on this later.

Talking about balance, I don't want to brow beat and yell numbers at people who don't understand numbers, but instead I want to bring up a very critical observation Party in the forest at Midnight brought up. There are two main kinds of players on the server. People who like dungeons/have the time to grind dungeons and loot, and casual/RP heavy players. Prior to the update, anyone had access to 9th level spells with a minimal investment + dip. This really leveled the playing field for both player types.

However, now people who have more time to play, or prefer to run dungeons (of which we don't have very many of to begin with) will be able to start stock piling rods or ridiculous items with high CL, 9th+spells. I don't have time in game or in general life to spend two hours a day running a dungeon for a Hope of getting pieces of my PvP kit. At least with Rune materials, the benefit you get from rune mats isn't as "make or break" a fight as whether or not you have access to dispel and unsummon.

This isn't even talking about anyone who had a shop dedicated to scrolls, since their business model is nuked. Or all the lowbies who spent money on GMW scrolls to make bullywugs and lowbie grind easier.

Since the Big Update there has been a great divide of trust. There is a definite line between the Staff, and the Community. The Community doesn't trust the Staff, and the Staff are on the defense after getting a lot of flak for changes they didn't have a say in making. Everyone was very excited for this new update, nobody was expecting to have concepts gutted or have to regear after spending lots of time/investment in current equipment.

We could move forward from this and try to be happy with our free-to-play wacky Staff run server, but at least for me I'm uncertain about making a new character or concept when its been made clear we're going to be using the main server as a Live Test Bed for changes that have clearly not been well thought out or considered. I don't know what to expect, and I don't want to invest time in something only to get singed on an impulse change.

TL;DR
My concept got hecked up.
Change rewards grind-heavy play styles.
Change polarizes builds that were already good/already bad.
Change hecks up some ig shop business models.
Rods and magic items are too messy for the quick bar.
I don't want to make a new character because the changes have made me lose faith in the dev team to not do me dirty mid-character arc, again.


Suggestions Moving Forward:
BE MORE TRANSPARENT. PLEASE. This is probably the ONLY game I have ever played where patch notes come out after the update goes live, if they even come out. Arelith has some weird mentality about keeping mechanical and aesthetic changes under the table until they get put in by surprise. This is stupid. Tell the community what up and coming new changes are coming in advance, get us excited about it, get feedback way earlier, even if you aren't going to listen to it. We have a twitter. Use it! Build hype! Don't vague post! No one can "leak" top secret dev information if everything is out in the open anyway and used to get people engaged and excited again.


Maybe don't use the server as a live test bed for your wacky shower ideas. We have the PGCC. You could always launch your wacky ideas on that and reign in your Paetron supporters as guinea pigs to test numbers.


Implement a balance team. This is not a meme. I'm serious. Most of the dev team don't even play the server, or they, by their own admission, are not very firm on mechanics. Implement a balance team to work with the code staff in an official capacity. All the issues that came from the former balance team was because it was unofficial and had no oversight. Please get some staff that are very intimately familiar with builds, mechanics, PvP, PvE, and dungeons from hands on experience in the game.


I feel like in general this whole update was handled very poorly. A big change was launched that we all knew, Staff and Community, was going to totally eschew the balance. But we didn't launch items/nerfs/tweaks until after it went live. Tweaks and nerfs should have been introduced when the changes went in, not after the community was already in hysterics. In general, the update should have been handled; 'announcement of intent, beta testing in PGCC, [reform plans], patch notes, release update live on main server.'



That concludes my thoughts on the matter. Thank you for reading my essay and stay tuned for part two, how to storyboard and write a story arc/dm event.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

I found your story interesting and am sad your paladin is debunked.

This doesnt really discuss the technical aspect of it as much. It does point out two kinds if players.

I probably fall in the second type in your paradigm. The UMD changes doesnt impact me in the slightest bit other than feeling bummed about rolling rogues. UMD dumps rely above level 25 play. These never helped me as I am rarely/never get that far.

100% of my PvP will be under lvl 30.

This phenomenon that all meta revolves around max level pvp is kind of wonkers to me at tines but i appreciate and understand the math of why it does. (Most rp servers a decade ago only had 100% consent only pvp, i appreciate arelith had the freedom to be otherwise)

I can say the team has been making efforts to make lower level scrolls more viable tools. Like making the acid/elementsl shield spells top of the breach list because you literally can't touch a high level super con edr whoever with something like that.

As much as I dont like skill dump meta, i made peace it was necessary a while ago and also have had mixed feelings about new changes.

Like to me there was a reason why umd was a class trained skill only. Using msgic devices was not for everyone. Lore changes say it is and makes umd a lot less useful too. I would have loved higher umd requirements and or factions that monitored heavy use of magic if arelith was intended to not be high level magic but still have more epic mages than a village has villagers (this obvously has allowed the market to give scrolls to everyone).

This whole climate is making lore and, or loot grinding viewed as mandatory which i see no metter than umd being mandatory. I think neithrr should be mandatory

[Dr. B]

I still think the UMD/Lore change should be rolled back.

It's never too late.

[Cortex]

All of the above was found since the update. I've found stacks of 2 and 4 of Disjunction gems since then, and the +15 AB Darts and WoF bullet were found this last wednesday when it was hinted Irongron had removed overpowered items.

I have nothing to say that the screenshot doesn't already.

[Apothys]

I've been affected by the changes too, but i think its important not to dwell on the negative side of it. I see that we are all in the same boat and we can no longer do everything we once could as well as we want. The age of spamming scrolls at one another is finally lessened. Yes id love to have them back so i can blitz ya summons into orbit and lower all ya wards before raging into combat, but now i have to think outside the box or even get a real mage or cleric to give me a hand. Hells id go so far as to say it induces more RP now.

Yeah there are some nice items out there now too that some see as unbalanced, i actually like that theirs new items coming into play, i personally dont see enough variety in items on Arelith if im honest and welcome any new additional items.

As for grinding for gear, i dont think there is a need to grind for everything either, stores will have them eventually as they always have. We are a RP server after all and getting stuff more slowly for some can be RP'd into the game with said items being a rare find and something to be excited about. You could even commission groups of adventurers to go in search of said items you are looking for. Or if you have factions your involved in, get them involved, i will be trying these things.

Anyway. I know were all affected differently by these changes and we all view them from our own perspective, its the community i love more than the items or PvP, (however i do love me some pvp) so i try to take a positive spin on things when they change or this sort of thing will just send you under if you let it.

[Aren]

... As for grinding for gear, i dont think there is a need to grind for everything either, stores will have them eventually as they always have.

I think you are underestimating how much people will hoard these items. They are literally gamebreaking, as they allow super strong builds, that had the downside of not having UMD pre patch, to now: breach, mantle, shadow shield, gain DR from premonition ect.

People will not be selling these in stores. They are too good to give away (unless it's to a buddy/ally).

[Apothys]

Ive actually seen a limited amount of some of these items on sale. Got a couple myself randomly, doesnt seem that bad to me...

Besides anyone who wanted to PvP prepatch would simply dip 3 levels into Bard or Rogue and get an endless supply of these items in scroll form from getting UMD, as a pvper myself, we would literally be churning the scrolls and wands out and having an endless supply. Honestly i hated it when i realised, felt wrong to have to become this scroll reading, wand wielding barbarian to be valid and the wands... urrghh so many, felt like Harry Potter on steroids but thats me.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

The fact that it's already in shops and the screenshot guy is giving some away and srill jas lots suggests non pure hoarding. Will they be balanced, that's another discussion lol

But everyone who finds them wont hoard them because not everyone wants to or even gets to regular pvp. The more its hoarded the higher the prices and the more of a quick cash grab it is for a casual player. Yes fighting few hoarders will suck.

[Ork]

My main issue with the update was its intent. We were sold the idea that access to high level spells in PvP for everyone was over. In return, we recieve access to high level spells in the form of rods or darts or other implements like the Eyes of Savras.

As I have played this update on Skal, I've come to appreciate the change of UMD to lore. For casual players, it makes leveling generally easier. I can slap on a mage armor, summon a boar, and if I get enough item lore - gain a greater magic weapon scroll on any low level character. My ranger can gain +5 enchantment on his double weapon right out of the gate at level 3.

However, while all my low level characters now have access to easier leveling items, I know what this has done to higher level play. While I'm no expert in game design, relying on RNG to provide rewards means that the game, at least subconsciously, encourages grinding.

Please consider other options than our current set up. The update hasn't remove high level spells from game and that narrative has caused a breach of trust with the community. While I like my low level toys with lore, a rollback would resume the tenuous balance we've enjoyed for a long time.

If a rollback is truly off the table, invest solely in lore as a mechanism to gain these things instead of rods. Rods have a 0-cost investment for players who can now invest skillpoints elsewhere. Lore at least costs players by relying on ESF: Lore to access WoF and other important countering scrolls.

Rods will unbalance Arelith and allow monsterfully powerful builds to forsake any investment or skill tax. The only tax is RNG.

[Aren]

The fact that it's already in shops and the screenshot guy is giving some away and srill jas lots suggests non pure hoarding. Will they be balanced, that's another discussion lol

But everyone who finds them wont hoard them because not everyone wants to or even gets to regular pvp. The more its hoarded the higher the prices and the more of a quick cash grab it is for a casual player. Yes fighting few hoarders will suck.

Let me rephrase that then: Smart people will be holding on to these items, as they are crazily powerful in the right hands. And I'm sure Cortex didn't just give rods to random people, but to allies in game.

[susitsu]

All of the above was found since the update. I've found stacks of 2 and 4 of Disjunction gems since then, and the +15 AB Darts and WoF bullet were found this last wednesday when it was hinted Irongron had removed overpowered items.

I have nothing to say that the screenshot doesn't already.

I do have something to say that the screenshot doesn't.

Melee builds are a Snuggle a Bugbear joke now. There's really no point trying to fight something that you can't Time Stop with +15 ab bullets and on-hit human death being passed around the server like candy.

[Cortex]

The fact that it's already in shops and the screenshot guy is giving some away and srill jas lots suggests non pure hoarding. Will they be balanced, that's another discussion lol

But everyone who finds them wont hoard them because not everyone wants to or even gets to regular pvp. The more its hoarded the higher the prices and the more of a quick cash grab it is for a casual player. Yes fighting few hoarders will suck.

Hoarded. Because I'm arming my faction and close allies.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

The fact that it's already in shops and the screenshot guy is giving some away and srill jas lots suggests non pure hoarding. Will they be balanced, that's another discussion lol

But everyone who finds them wont hoard them because not everyone wants to or even gets to regular pvp. The more its hoarded the higher the prices and the more of a quick cash grab it is for a casual player. Yes fighting few hoarders will suck.

Let me rephrase that then: Smart people will be holding on to these items, as they are crazily powerful in the right hands. And I'm sure Cortex didn't just give rods to random people, but to allies in game.

So all people who do little pvp are not smart?
Or all people with characters who can't or little of use the items nor are part of any faction?
Mages got less people buying scrolls so they will sell these items. You will say "why would mages sell items to their demise?" Apply same logic to previous scroll market. Mages could have always been unstoppable gods if they were part of the same faction that enjoyed elitism over the rest of the world vs just some random Mage/caster making money.

There are a lot of "not smart" people out there. ALOT of people before umd were not always making meta characters.

That being said, as much i dont mind archers getting cool dispel tools i think all the other extra tools to make then dominate mundanes too much is ridiculous. Like if archers just happened to be good agaisnt mages and melee mundanes had an edge on archers somehow, that would be fine.

But as orkus and susistas pointed out. Its still high level spell play for everyone with rods, high level spells that are not essential dispel tools. And archers seem to be getting way too many tools to absolutely wreck any kind of build.

I still think class dumps will be done just for discipline and or tumble as 6 ac is a lot to give up. (Along with evasion to boot) vs those lvl 28 cookie for stuff like a pure fighter.

But slaying and or draining ammunition is wonk.

[Cortex]

People that don't PvP and/or are not mechanically savvy are not nearly as affected by those who PvP and/or are mechanically aware at first glance. This change affects both, in that the latter group people have quit Arelith or are moving to what's the next new things, and in many occasions they will be the ones deciding what is pushed forward in RP through excess of the best builds in the server (right now, battle clerics, SSs, caster PMs, warlocks and whoever has the best RNG luck when loot grinding) and winning PvP that would push the direction of RP. UMD and UMD tools being widely accessible was what enabled things to be more or less on par with each other. Now we rely on grind times and RNG, while a few builds are strong without them.

You could theoretically make a PW that works without UMD as a necessity, but this is not the way to do it. I don't trust the direction of the server to do it right, its been 2 weeks since many problems were pointed out and still no dice, still looting busted items, still no craftables, no word on any of that besides Irongron saying items were "removed" from the loot, but at least we get a day off Arelith during its meme Halloween holiday event.

edit: A small disclaimer, I don't expect a catastrophic mess like this to be fixed in two weeks, but an actual honest acknowledgement of the problems, and what needs fixing.

edit2: redacted an irrelevant point

[Zavandar]

>hate everyone using umd to use high level spells
>introduce magic items that cast high level spells (but they dont require umd)

If the intent of this update was to remove the prevalence of high level spells from mundanes, it has already defeated itself. We have gruin rods. That's an epic spell.


If the intent was just to remove the "umd tax" that kept things balanced, it was a resounding success

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

People that don't PvP and/or are not mechanically savvy are not nearly as affected by those who PvP and/or are mechanically aware at first glance. This change affects both, in that the latter group people have quit Arelith or are moving to what's the next new things, and in many occasions they will be the ones deciding what is pushed forward in RP through excess of the best builds in the server (right now, battle clerics, SSs, caster PMs, warlocks and whoever has the best RNG luck when loot grinding) and winning PvP that would push the direction of RP. UMD and UMD tools being widely accessible was what enabled things to be more or less on par with each other. Now we rely on grind times and RNG, while a few builds are strong without them.

An example of how whack balance is right now, the other day two friends of mine were simulating shotgun PvP, a SS with resting buffs (what you would usually have if not actively ready for battle) and an ultra aggro 2h WM at point blank. The WM got afew hits in the first round, and then lost dramatically without means of bouncing back.

You could theoretically make a PW that works without UMD as a necessity, but this is not the way to do it. I don't trust the direction of the server to do it right, its been 2 weeks since many problems were pointed out and still no dice, still looting busted items, still no craftables, no word on any of that besides Irongron saying items were "removed" from the loot, but at least we get a day off Arelith during its meme Halloween holiday event.

edit: A small disclaimer, I don't expect a catastrophic mess like this to be fixed in two weeks, but an actual honest acknowledgement of the problems, and what needs fixing.

I definitely appreciate this kind of post. I was only commenting on everyone's assumed hoarding tendencies. Im not saying there arnt balance concerns. Especially in regards to rods and ammo and lack of umd scroll access.. Loot matrix vs craftables etc.

[Tarkus the dog]

Just a few things:

1. I'm glad that I can actually use the builds that I like and not go "oh no but I need UMD", but this creates problems of it's own which are hard to mitigate in a RP setting such is Arelith where not everyone is adept in PvP.

2. Rods found in PvE add to your PvP, but they'll mostly be effective against semi-skilled players -- Not so much against NWN veterans who have seen it all already. WoF bolts. Shadow shield rods. Few things will surprise them, but this might mean we're going back to 30 DC fear Aura EDK days and more "I win" buttons. Some of the rods look ridiculous but frankly I like the challenge. Not everyone has this mentality, though, some people prefer easy fights and that's alright.

3. I'd like more end-game PvE content. I don't really need runes on any of the characters that I play, and I'm not motivated to explore the dungeons just so that I might find a rod or an item that I will save for PvP.

4. The fact that every mass PvP now is not 50 seconds longer simply because literally everyone in the fight /has/ to use the Timestop to do something that, half of the time won't even help them win the fight to begin with, is pretty refreshing

5. Mages are still overpowered though. Unless I'm playing a specific build that counters one ( and rolling 1 is still a thing as are the countless non-DC spells that they have ), I don't really stand a chance. Summons are also a little bit hilarious, but I feel like that deserves a point of it's own. But at the end of the day if I pull off a victory against a wizard, I'm having a good time. If I get my body bashed, I'm not that bothered.

6. HIPS needs a larger cooldown

7. Many other points, but the list is getting too long

In short, I don't think the things are as bad as they may seem. There could certainly be some adjustments made but the lore change, as much as I have dreaded it, turned out to be pretty alright. It created a new set of problems and issues, sure, but it's nothing that can't be fixed in the coming future. We can go back to the UMD only era, but if I need to play another cookie-cuter in order for my character to be both semi-decent and fun at the same time, then at that point I might as well play another game.

[Diegovog]

3. I'd like more end-game PvE content. I don't really need runes on any of the characters that I play, and I'm not motivated to explore the dungeons just so that I might find a rod or an item that I will save for PvP.

Nobody is motivated for that.

It was already grindy before, since you went into an end-game boss only to get no decent ore whatsoever and an empty shrine. Now there seems to be an even higher encouragement of grind to maybe get a very specific one-time use item. Just thinking about it is dis-motivating.

[the grim yeeter]

[screenshot]

All of the above was found since the update. I've found stacks of 2 and 4 of Disjunction gems since then, and the +15 AB Darts and WoF bullet were found this last wednesday when it was hinted Irongron had removed overpowered items.

I have nothing to say that the screenshot doesn't already.

LMAO.

Having played here for around a decade and a half, seeing this image is truly perplexing. Surreal, even after three weeks still. I honestly wouldn't have ever expected for it to come to this.

I wholly agree with OP, and I've said it numerous times in the past year or so already: transparency is absolutely necessary. Transparency allows for the discussion of incoming changes with capable minds, so that drastic, disastrous changes like these can be prevented and server quality can be maintained.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

This isnt some mainstream product, this is a passion project. Oldschool DnD was always intentionally not transparent. When all the mechanics get brocken down into mere numbers, a bit of the magic gets lost for some. So im not surprised they don't always want everything transparent.

But mostly i just think that adding too many regulations could have the same effect it has on trade: no one will want to do it. Like imagime they did do all the effort of giving you the update before it happened, only to have everyone say "no" to your hard work. You decide that you want the steer your ship this way anyways and now the whole process of telling everyone ahead of time removed any mysteries, made said people feel like their opinions were asked for no reason and you put that effort into "transparency" for no reason. Oh your child is crying now and you need to take a break from doing volunteer work.

You could listen to everyone who jusy say "no" to your destination vs them saying how to get thete better, but then you don't even get to steer your own ship where you want it to go. It be like dming a PnP campaign where the playets tell you which campaign to run and all the rules, etc.

We are not customers, we are friends and, or associates and those who really wish to see changes should learn to code and help make it happen.

TLDR

Im tired of the "be more transparent and deliver all our future changes on update manifesto silver platter" narrative. It does nothing but tell devs their efforts and limited time is not enough and it comes off really entitled sonetimes.

[Aren]

Im tired of the "be more transparent and deliver all our future changes on update manifesto silver platter" narrative. It does nothing but tell devs their efforts and limited time is not enough and it comes off really entitled sonetimes.

No. What is does, is make all the players who have invested countless of hours/days/years into the game, players who have intricate mechanical knowledge about Arelith - able to to examine the changes ahead of launch, provide constructive feedback as to what could potentially break the game, the balance of classes or otherwise.

Frankly, the way you attribute other players engagement and involvement into the future direction of the Arelith, as whining entitled children, is a bit insulting. You seem to assume the worst in these people, instead of listening to the players who have been here for more than a decade. They have been here for a reason. They like Arelith. They want it to persist. They want to help.

[Aren]

The fact that it's already in shops and the screenshot guy is giving some away and srill jas lots suggests non pure hoarding. Will they be balanced, that's another discussion lol

But everyone who finds them wont hoard them because not everyone wants to or even gets to regular pvp. The more its hoarded the higher the prices and the more of a quick cash grab it is for a casual player. Yes fighting few hoarders will suck.

Hoarded. Because I'm arming my faction and close allies.

I rest my case.

[Queen Titania]

Im tired of the "be more transparent and deliver all our future changes on update manifesto silver platter" narrative. It does nothing but tell devs their efforts and limited time is not enough and it comes off really entitled sometimes.

No. What is does, is make all the players who have invested countless of hours/days/years into the game, players who have intricate mechanical knowledge about Arelith - able to to examine the changes ahead of launch, provide constructive feedback as to what could potentially break the game, the balance of classes or otherwise.

Frankly, the way you attribute other players engagement and involvement into the future direction of the Arelith, as whining entitled children, is a bit insulting. You seem to assume the worst in these people, instead of listening to the players who have been here for more than a decade. They have been here for a reason. They like Arelith. They want it to persist. They want to help.

It really comes down to how you say it. I.E, in my opinion, the response of yours, Svaren, comes off entitled, even if that is not the intention. Requesting transparency is not entitlement, there is merit to the suggestion after all and having transparency in certain situations, even if it is not a policy I believe Arelith should cater to 100% of the time.

The part about invested countless hours/days/years, intricate knowledge, give it the entitled rings, and can ring as "I have done all of this, and so I deserve to be listened to." Thus phrasing is so very important. It can be the difference between your words getting across and failing to deliver their message.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

Forgive my morning salt post.

I said came off as entitled, not entitled.

I been around a long time too and I think a lot of what the critics have to say is good and I think the best of everyone's intentions (including my own and you see me never directly attack any individual) and I dont think less of what i labeled the "demanding players".

I said it comes off entitled, not is and its not as easy to accommodate said intentions as some make it out to be.

That being said, I made a morning crappost and I do apologize for my tone.

I don't think the tone/assumption/defensiveness right back at me is anymore justified/helpful, but I do apologise for my conduct.

Id appreciate youd not assume the worst of me the way you assumed I have assumed of others (i have not). Calling a group "coming off as entitled" is talking about appearances not reality, you took it one step further assuming i was assuming everyone children, I was not.

I actaully want things to be productive and the mechanic savvy people to have more say. If its an overbearing voice, it will have less say.

[Aren]

Im tired of the "be more transparent and deliver all our future changes on update manifesto silver platter" narrative. It does nothing but tell devs their efforts and limited time is not enough and it comes off really entitled sometimes.

No. What is does, is make all the players who have invested countless of hours/days/years into the game, players who have intricate mechanical knowledge about Arelith - able to to examine the changes ahead of launch, provide constructive feedback as to what could potentially break the game, the balance of classes or otherwise.

Frankly, the way you attribute other players engagement and involvement into the future direction of the Arelith, as whining entitled children, is a bit insulting. You seem to assume the worst in these people, instead of listening to the players who have been here for more than a decade. They have been here for a reason. They like Arelith. They want it to persist. They want to help.

It really comes down to how you say it. I.E, in my opinion, the response here comes off entitled, even if that is not the intention. Requesting transparency is not entitlement, there is merit to the suggestion after all and having transparency in certain situations, even if it is not a policy I believe Arelith should cater to 100% of the time.

The part about invested countless hours/days/years, intricate knowledge, give it the entitled rings, and can ring as "I have done all of this, and so I deserve to be listened to." Thus phrasing is so very important. It can be the difference between your words getting across and failing to deliver their message.

I cannot help how you choose to read my post, Titania. All I can do is elaborate my point, so that you'll understand the intention. The part about invested hours/days/years was meant to further cement the fact, that there are people out there with significant game knowledge - whose feedback I believe would be clever to listen to. And that has nothing to do with entitlement. Organisational psychology has taught us, that a good manager would always welcome the advise or feedback of people who have intricate knowledge about the subject matter, to help him/her make an educated decision.

And seeing as people have a tendency to read intentions into my post, I'll make sure to assert the fact that >I am not saying Irongron cannot make educated decisions about Arelith, or that he should cater to the vocal segment whenever they make an uproar.< - I am saying that he shouldn't dismiss it lightly when the veterans cries: "Halt. This is a very bad idea. And here's why:"