Imagine we had less Portals?

[Aurian]

Except for a few areas all the mobs that spawn on the roads are no hindrance for max level characters. Up around Minmir that starts to change but even as a mage when i was lv 30 none of those mobs delayed me for more then a few seconds before my summon killed them. I do agree they need to add portals to Skal though, especially one that links it with Arelith. I get its supposed to be super isolated and hard to get to but i mean magic exists and teleportation is easy enough that even a place like Skal should have at least one portal to the mainland if only so they can continue to trade and receive supplies during the winter, or incase of emergencies.

But not everyone has a max level character. Some players might never have a max level character because they prefer a more casual playstyle with minimized grinding and maximited RP, and enjoy trying out new races and classes every half year or so.

[Skarain]

The amount of portals could be looked into, especially those near to each other.

However, think of portals just like the "Fast Travel" mechanic in Skyrim. If you want, sure, you can skip walking from place to place after you have visited once, but you are not going to be noticing the dungeons, the caverns, the resources and other neat things that are laid alongside the path.

To some people, it's a treat to find those places along the road and find new material nodes you might not have known to have exist before. While-as some people are in a rush to another town because their friends are roleplaying there and they do want to join, or in a hurry to complete a writ to keep up a steady leveling pace up to 20.

If you want to "try out" how it is to play on a low-portal, feet/land trafic persistent world server, I recommend to take a look at Ravenloft: Prisoners of the Mist. Both that server and Arelith are good, but they cater to different audiences, and ultimately only you can decide what fits your fancy. Any case, in Ravenloft there are no portals. Travel is done via Caravans that have a small travel time, or by running. In terms of running, your CON modifier defines how long you can run before becoming exhausted and have to switch to walking speed. Personally I found it quite charming, paired together with pack mules to carry your stuff and very scary night when monsters come out. However, it also took a lot more time to play, reason why I quit at that time with my life-situation not allowing me to sit 4 hours for one dungeon.

[The GrumpyCat]

Portals in general are uttelry invaluble to those who have limited play time, immedate real life responsiblities and/or bad computers/connections.
I suffer from all three at the moment. Without portals I would find doing anything player side very difficult.

[Aren]

"I don't like fast travel, thus everyone else shouldn't be able to fast travel."

"I don't want to build optimal builds, thus everyone else shouldn't be building optimal builds - because that indirectly forces me to play optimal builds to be competitive.

I've seen this mentality a lot the past few months. It's unbecoming.

[Apothys]

I dont think thats whats happening here, were just having a discussion about it.

My point was it would add more fun to the game, with travellers on the road, far off places being an adventure to reach, rather than portal, kill kill kill, portal.

Good points have been made for both sides, i think its unfair to lump us all into a group of 'unbecoming bahaviour' just because our thoughts are different to your own.

[Aren]

I dont think thats whats happening here, were just having a discussion about it.

My point was it would add more fun to the game, with travellers on the road, far off places being an adventure to reach, rather than portal, kill kill kill, portal.

Good points have been made for both sides, i think its unfair to lump us all into a group of 'unbecoming bahaviour' just because our thoughts are different.

Your'e missing my point. People here are arguing that it's a good idea to remove portals, because 1: They find it makes better RP as they believe its too easy to travel the world - and 2: That by removing some of them you'll see more people travelling the world.

My point is: If you want to travel the world from A to B, there's nothing stopping you from doing so. If you feel that this is the correct way to traverse Arelith, then please be my guest. But don't try to force anyone else to do this by suggesting removing portals. I think it's a selfish notion, as a lot of people don't have more than a couple of hours to play a day, and they'd rather not spend fifteen minutes just getting from A to B, just because you think that portals are too abundant and you want to walk from A to B.

[Apothys]

No i got your point quite clearly.

But I feel your jumping to the assumption that we are demanding something. Were not, we were just discussing it. Its then clearly been stated this wont change by Irongron, yet you felt you had to start throwing round words like selfish and 'Unbecoming behaviour' which seemed a little harsh.

I can assure you this is not what we are being and I apologise if this discussion has offended you in some way.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

No i got your point quite clearly.

But I feel your jumping to the assumption that we are demanding something. Were not, we were just discussing it. Its then clearly been stated this wont change by Irongron, yet you felt you had to start throwing round words like selfish and 'Unbecoming behaviour' which seemed a little harsh.

I can assure you this is not what we are being and I apologise if this discussion has offended you in some way.

I think at one point the build community got critisized but certain types of rpers for not be true rpera and said community had to make huge leaps and bounds of effort to create a culture shift that was more accepting of their philosophies.

Stuff like its on to roll 8 cha (i do this all the time, im not judging) on non cha characters.

A class in itself doesn't have an essence, your rp does (nothing wrong with dips on every character)

Vs people who felt the opposite and wanted the world around them to be the opposite.

Lets call the former camp A

Camp A's main driving point is that how you choose to rp your character is your choice and things like not cha dumping should not be forced upon you. The character is just a vessel, etc. Etc.


So this portal thing could be seen as a camp B idea and therefor a threat to camp A.

I think that's what at play, but I might be reading into it.


But i agree, this was a good simple discussion. Its not like portals are going to be removed

[Aren]

No i got your point quite clearly.

But I feel your jumping to the assumption that we are demanding something. Were not, we were just discussing it. Its then clearly been stated this wont change by Irongron, yet you felt you had to start throwing round words like selfish and 'Unbecoming behaviour' which seemed a little harsh.

I can assure you this is not what we are being and I apologise if this discussion has offended you in some way.

I'm not the slightest offended.

Perhaps a way to go about your discussion without inadvertently affecting every other player by your suggestion, is to instead advocate for lesser use of portals, by using sound arguments as to why this could benefit the server as a whole. This way, you aren't suggesting something that'll change how the game works for everyone else, including those who like it the way it is, but instead spread your vision of why abundant portal-use is a bad thing for the server, and in effect change the hearts of some players.

*Edit to add the last line.*

[Halibutthead]

"I don't like fast travel, thus everyone else shouldn't be able to fast travel."

"I don't want to build optimal builds, thus everyone else shouldn't be building optimal builds - because that indirectly forces me to play optimal builds to be competitive.

I've seen this mentality a lot the past few months. It's unbecoming.

i'm seeing a different attitude, to be honest. mostly because i didn't read anyone saying those things but you.
it's more of a false dichotomy, as in "if you think something could be tweaked, you must not want the thing at all, and that makes you selfish"

[Aren]

"I don't like fast travel, thus everyone else shouldn't be able to fast travel."

"I don't want to build optimal builds, thus everyone else shouldn't be building optimal builds - because that indirectly forces me to play optimal builds to be competitive.

I've seen this mentality a lot the past few months. It's unbecoming.

i'm seeing a different attitude, to be honest. mostly because i didn't read anyone saying those things but you.
it's more of a false dichotomy, as in "if you think something could be tweaked, you must not want the thing at all, and that makes you selfish"

This isn't the first time this discussion has been raised.

And if you wish for something to be tweaked, that could literally be achieved by altering your own actions (e.g just not using portals and walking the roads instead), then I think the notion is selfish towards any other player who does not want to traverse half of the server to get to where they're going.

[Dr. B]

Just an observation, but there has always been a vocal minority of players who want to take things away from everyone in order to enforce their ideas of what counts as good RP. They got their wish with the recent UMD update, and I hope this in not the beginning of a trend.

[Aren]

Just an observation, but there seems to be a trend lately with a minority of players wanting to take things away from everyone in order to enforce their ideas of what counts as good RP. They got their wish with the recent UMD update, and I hope this in not the beginning of a trend.

Yes.

[Dr. B]

[Please excuse my ninja edit; the original post used the word "trend" twice].

[Apothys]

When asking for peoples opinions on things i dont think is nessasary to conform to limiting a questions scope because others may not like what the outcome may be. IM afraid well have to agree to disagree on this one.

Well done for derailing the thread.

[Halibutthead]

half of the server

can we stop with the exaggerations? it doesn't make you look brighter, and i think (or at least hope) you know better.
removing one or two of the 3 portals within 2 transitions of the arcane tower wouldn't force anyone to travel """"half the server"""".
removing one of the 3 portals either in or immediately adjacent to bender wouldn't force anyone to travel """"half the server"""".
it would, however, reduce a significant amount of clutter on the portal list, and look a hell of a lot less silly. but we're big on dichotomies, right? why not go all the way and put a portal in every single module area, since it's impossible that there could be too many.
if you disagree, clearly you're selfish because [generic playtime excuse].
(we are allowed to have a discussion. your vitriol is not helpful and is irrelevant to it)

EDIT: clarification

[Echohawk]

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=26136

You do you. You can mess with people more by not taking portals like they might expect, or you can do whatever you'd like. There's plenty of ways to play your own way, and they're fine.

Picking up the attunements is completely voluntary. Some get removed or limited with basically no warning. So, do what you enjoy. Don't do what you don't enjoy. You can't forget the attunements you learn, this is true, and the list ends up being a few dialogue pages long. That's all. We have a favorite portal destination system now so you can assign preferred attunements, use it or don't.



zoomies

[Halibutthead]

and if this wasn't a feeback thread, i would totally agree that your suggestion was helpful

[Xarge VI]

I'm conflicted about this subject.

On one hand I enjoy wandering about and encountering people along the road especially now that we have horsies. Nowadays it is rare to encounter anyone along the roads unlike in the past.

On the other hand I have few days in the week these days when I can spend time wandering about, and portals are super helpful in getting things going with limited time.

However, I don't think the amount of portals is the issue, really.
Portal Lenses have remained at 3500gp and less even though the general availability of gold has risen quit a lot. I remember that in the past 3500gp was a price most wouldn't pay for just general convenience.

Maybe rather than burning all the portals better way to encourage road travel would be to have Portal Lens prices touched by inflation.

[Echohawk]

There are portal lenses for less than 2.5k in game at certain vendors.
But that also doesn't take away from those with Greater or Epic spell focus Transmutation who lvl 21 and higher can just portal step with little to no cost depending on class.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

Just an observation, but there has always been a vocal minority of players who want to take things away from everyone in order to enforce their ideas of what counts as good RP. They got their wish with the recent UMD update, and I hope this in not the beginning of a trend.

You read the post iron made about all the players sending support in private messages but afraid to say it out loud? I think both vocal sides, the vocal part at least, could be viewed as minority. There are those who i mentioned earlier from camp A who can be super savage at times.

Months ago i got into an argument about the rp implications of everyone having umd (i never said it was wrong for people to do such) and because seeing the other person's way i got called both lazy and having the reading comprehension of less than someone in grade 6. I almost quit arelith because of this (and i know others that have). Thankfully the person was cool when i confronted them in privsye messages and its water under the bridge now.

I actaully came to accept umd meta and realized the game would require way too much massive overhauls to change it and it's ultimately the players that made the scrolls available. I never felt like my opinion was valued or respected or seriously considered. I was just thrown into camp b i mentioned earlier. The apparent minority hss been constantly squashed before it could appear otherwise. I had to tell someone to lay off once for having a condescending attitude towards someone not wanting to roll a 8 cha rogue while seeking build advice (i convinced said person thst 10 was still doable with the cookie cutter build and they could still view themselves as above aver. cha since everyone was 8)

I actaully really appreciate the math of the git gud community. When monks became a problem i tried opening a discussing to start tweaking them vs a hard nerf or ignoring. Everyone just wanted to say how brocken it was or how it's totally fine. There was a little bit of middle ground discussion but no one really wanted to get into it. In that discussion i got lumped into group A in this umd i feel i get lumped into B, im neither really and there are lots of us who don't vocalize ourselves.

I also want to take a look at the "you do you" argument that is often prevalent but not used in a consistent standard from both sides.

Telling people to play the game the way they want to, but leave your game alone (umd, portals etc.) Is all fine and dandy but were sure eager to tell people the game is wrong when PvP goes out of balance. Like somehow your interactions with the pve world doesn't impact their rp world but your pvp does? (Obvously they both have an impact and are both important, we dont Rp on an Island). Arelith chooses, for better or for worse, to cater to ease of portal use. I really have no interest in saying either way is more wrong or right. They both absolutely impact ooc and ic play. Im not going to IC avoid the available tools to my disposal.

For the record im not a huge fan of the lore/umd changes even though i never liked skilldumpimg (let's not debate my dislike right now). I think umd should have just been raised a bit for higher scrolls and DMs could have started hardcore magic restricting factions or even done something dickish like addimg anti magic field spell inti the game. (Or even nerfed bite back sprlls so mundanes wernt useless against mundanes with umd. Etc.) Or added some tools while umd still being valid so non umd wasntvas useless and less reasons to hoard said items (and items a littlr less ridiculous too). But some people were too concerned telling people like me how approach to rp was just completely wrong vs coming up with better solutions to make EVERYONE happy vs this umd/lore/new items war/mess we got going on.

[Dr. B]

You read the post iron made about all the players sending support in private messages but afraid to say it out loud? I think both vocal sides, the vocal part at least, could be viewed as minority. There are those who i mentioned earlier from camp A who can be super savage at times.

I would be interested in seeing a poll on this (alas, the forum moderators won't let people, so so much for that idea). I would also be interested in knowing the number of PMs Irongron received praising the changes and comparing them to the number of complaints he received through some medium or another. In any case I profoundly doubt the people who were advocating for changes like what we saw to UMD were half or the majority of players. Irongron's anecdotal evidence doesn't show otherwise.

My evidence is the observation that most people like to keep goodies, not lose them, and this makes it highly plausible that proponents of the UMD change were in the minority. Ditto people who want to reduce portals.

[Halibutthead]

i don't think you're wrong, dr b. however, i don't think appeasing the playerbase is always best.
for example, if they allowed players to create characters at level 30 for a few months, then removed that ability, the forums would burn down with unfettered hatred, "you do you"s, "this punishes people with no play time", "what about the arr-pee", and every other overhashed excuse we see on every single change. this is despite the fact that auto-30 would be absolute cancer for the server.
in the end, irongron and company need to stay loyal to their vision of the server and trust that people will want to play it, regardless of the changes they make. (this requires the acceptance of the idea that said vision is fun for the players, regardless of whether it's convenient, or the best thing ever)

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

You read the post iron made about all the players sending support in private messages but afraid to say it out loud? I think both vocal sides, the vocal part at least, could be viewed as minority. There are those who i mentioned earlier from camp A who can be super savage at times.

I would be interested in seeing a poll on this (alas, the forum moderators won't let people, so so much for that idea). I would also be interested in knowing the number of PMs Irongron received praising the changes and comparing them to the number of complaints he received through some medium or another. In any case I profoundly doubt the people who were advocating for changes like what we saw to UMD were half or the majority of players. Irongron's anecdotal evidence doesn't show otherwise.

My evidence is the observation that most people like to keep goodies, not lose them, and this makes it highly plausible that proponents of the UMD change were in the minority. Ditto people who want to reduce portals.

I concede that portals and umd can be viewed as cookies not wanting to be lost. Hence my monk reference and how our cookies is an impact on others. Not saying the cookies should be taken away.

I should also further note that I do no suspect Iron's supporting messages to be that of praising specifically the Umd update, but rather support as a team to take server in the direction they see fit. I for example don't consider a filtering/balance team that doesnt do actaul work and, or provide solid alternatives to move forward to be a practical burden upon the developers.

I support the team even if I don't agree with all the details, and I suspect many of the supporting messages fall under that. I mentioned supporting messages because of the part he mentioned of people being afraid to speak up; its quite clear to me why a lot of people may feel this way (like when those who would sell vs hoard certain op items get labeled "stupid"). I think the vast majority mostly want to stay out of the whole fiasco and just play there game.

I think the poll would never truly be representative either of the majority or players as the majority are not on the forums.

As for portals, im fine either way as long as some fast travel exists (like boats). I played a lot when Cordor had no portal, but will enjoy the extra convenience. And i think our server has enough people now that we dont have to worry about roads being completely empty. Especially with resource nodes.

Also Dr. B, I have almost always appreciated/respect/etc your posts and thankful you did not tear me a new one when saying your side of it.

[Cortex]

I for example don't consider a filtering/balance team that doesnt do actaul work and, or provide solid alternatives to move forward to be a practical burden upon the developers.

im going to nitpick on this point because it addresses me (and others), and clarify that many of us did actual work, ranging from items to monsters. as well as lots of brainstorming when coders were part of it or involved, not to mention the coding itself.