Radiant Heart Ring is Ridiculously Powerful

[Irongron]

I agree with much of the above, and will ask for this to be looked at.

Not only will this ring need to be scaled back, but I think we need to introduce a number of different guild/class options, with associated quests, as a matter of some priority.

[Red Ropes]

yea the ring needs nipped.

so too does the andunorian champ belt.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=25887

[the grim yeeter]

For mechanical benefit to be locked behind alignment or faction is, in general, a bad thing and simply should not happen, be it from a radiant heart ring or a beast belt.

When you say you can take four of the following (6) properties. Do you mean you can take +1 stat multipul tims to different stats and, say, +2 universal as the fourth?

You can end up with:

Code: Select all

+4 discipline
+1 stat
+1 stat
+1 stat
+26 SR

on ONE item (stats need to be different from each other), without having to use any enchantment basin or runes whatsoever. Alternatively, you can swap 1 stat for +2 uni, or the 26 SR for another stat or +2 uni, if you're willing to lose 1 AC for wearing the SR helmet.


Compare it to the beast belt (and the feats granted for winning the fight):

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+5 discipline
+5 intimidate
+3 str
+1 uni (loh)
+4 bluff, +4 intimidate, +4 persuade, +4 taunt (epic reputation)
250k gold (around 400k if you add all the preceding fights)

which you have to risk your character permanently dying for (although, it isn't a difficult fight by any means).


All in all, the ring is not that much more powerful than the beast belt (although it can be customized to fit any build, which the belt cannot). The issue behind both these items is that they give a huge mechanical boost that many other characters will not be able to get because these items are class-, faction- and/or alignment-restricted (ignoring the few players who completely ignore their paladin character's class and lawful good alignment and wear the beast belt anyway. When are DMs going to do something about that, by the way?)

[garrbear758]

If you see a paladin wearing the beast belt report it.

DMs cant be everywhere at once.

[Apothys]

"+4 hide/ms"

This doesn't even fit the thematic of the ideology!

If you speak with the NPCs inside the Radiant Heart, one of them gives a reason why this would in fact be acceptable.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

"+4 hide/ms"

This doesn't even fit the thematic of the ideology!

If you speak with the NPCs inside the Radiant Heart, one of them gives a reason why this would in fact be acceptable.

*sighs*

So beast belts and and rings for all paladins I guess.

[Archon]

I levelled a cot up to 22 and the ring, before being its final form, was plain mad. Gaining levels had never been as fast before. You can combine RH writs with regular ones, so you can just take writs to same place in one go and get double xp for same effort. It is a clear advantage over everyone else (while pirates get two writ sources as well they must make an effort to find place/ship x), and divine classes rank high in scale of power as is.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

I don't know when it was ever a good idea to reward mechanical/material items to in-game factions. It's heavy-handed, top-down, and undermines the idea of player-first roleplaying.

[Dr. B]

"+4 hide/ms"

This doesn't even fit the thematic of the ideology!

If you speak with the NPCs inside the Radiant Heart, one of them gives a reason why this would in fact be acceptable.

*sighs*

So beast belts and and rings for all paladins I guess.

You might wanna re-read what you quoted there.

[Echohawk]

"+4 hide/ms"

This doesn't even fit the thematic of the ideology!

"You're too dexterous to be a paladin" -actual thing said in game

God bless.

[Zavandar]

never forget

[Archnon]

I agree with much of the above, and will ask for this to be looked at.

Not only will this ring need to be scaled back, but I think we need to introduce a number of different guild/class options, with associated quests, as a matter of some priority.

Sorry to bug you big boss man, but is there a precedent for how these will be introduced potentially? Is this going to be player driven or lore driven? Are they going to be unique to races? Locations? groups? Finally, is there any potential for input from the peanut gallery out here as far as what should get a NPC faction or is that better driven IC'ly?

[goblinhero]

I'm an idiot at gauging mechanical strength of items - that said:

The ring -should- be better/more diverse/different than what can be enchanted at the basin - otherwise it makes no point to attain it. It doesn't have to be in pure strength - it might just have things like the SR/+2 unisave that cannot be added at the basin.

And by all means, make some crazy tough hoop you have to jump through and what not. I like the RH writs for two simple reasons - you can help others with them and they go past 21st.

And it would be wonderfull to have more class-specific stuff, like rogue-quests, nature-related quests or resident/citizen-specific stuff. Having to ask for most of Bendir to help with BenwickAvernus has been a lot of fun for me.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

If you speak with the NPCs inside the Radiant Heart, one of them gives a reason why this would in fact be acceptable.

*sighs*

So beast belts and and rings for all paladins I guess.

You might wanna re-read what you quoted there.

You are correct.

[Red Ropes]

I'm an idiot at gauging mechanical strength of items - that said:

The ring -should- be better/more diverse/different than what can be enchanted at the basin - otherwise it makes no point to attain it. It doesn't have to be in pure strength - it might just have things like the SR/+2 unisave that cannot be added at the basin.

And by all means, make some crazy tough hoop you have to jump through and what not. I like the RH writs for two simple reasons - you can help others with them and they go past 21st.

And it would be wonderfull to have more class-specific stuff, like rogue-quests, nature-related quests or resident/citizen-specific stuff. Having to ask for most of Bendir to help with BenwickAvernus has been a lot of fun for me.

it does have a point it'd be a free piece of end game ring

+

ALL OF THE (FOIG) benefits of being part of the order. You get access to specific NPCs based on your rank.

[RedGiant]

Not that Paladins need over-tuning, but like my comments on the EMD thread, good server wide is, IMO, somewhat under-tunded at the moment.

This ring doesn't terribly worry me, since it's just one item per character. Other classes have some spectacular items. And, let's face it, the Paladin vestments were always somewhat questionable in utility.

For example:
Rogue Leathers
+4AC
+1Dex
Runic
26SR
Use/Day Rogue's Cunning.

Five great qualities on an item is pretty significant.

Maybe just make a customizable end -tier item for the classes that dont have one already, because I think the genie is already out of the bottle.

[the grim yeeter]

And, let's face it, the Paladin vestments were always somewhat questionable in utility.

The padded vestment of the holy squire is actually a very good item for some builds.

[Skarain]

And, let's face it, the Paladin vestments were always somewhat questionable in utility.

The padded vestment of the holy squire is actually a very good item for some builds.

My UMD Monkey likes free Resurrection per rest, indeed.

On the actual topic of the ring, i am not too bothered. There are alternative ways of gaining equal amounts of SR and Discipline is not as gamebreaking as it once was. Other alignments and builds get other benefits. Neutrals can bounce between Good and Bad cities and trade in both and not feel a moral sting. Casters are powerful and if not surprised unwarded, can be quite deadly. Evil gets undead as a pretty good summons.

Then again i was never the powergamer. If the question is who wins a fight, then the answer is typically who brought most friends and some basic tactics. One ring is not going to change the outcome any more than one belt. And since there are alignment and class restrictions, not everyone will have it/them.

Just my modest view of things.

And sure, more cookies for neutrals and other paths sounds always good. No rush, though. IG and staff are already doing a stellar job shipping new stuff. Things will come when they will come.

EDIT: As an actual though, has there been a fight recently where the existence of the ring as it is have made a noticeable impact? I would love if someone could share some of those experiences, to add into the balance discussion.

[Diegovog]

One ring is not going to change the outcome

Sauron disagrees.
Sorry, I just had to

But answering your question, SR can yes win fights because it will deny items, low CL stuff casted on them. And you can customize however you want in a way that not even extremely lucky epic enchanters rolling on millions of gold could enchanting such a ring.
but I don't want to take the cookie away from the paladins (I have a pally) just want it shared!

[Apothys]

I enjoy the idea of Paladins having a cool signet ring. Trying to complete the faction writs is really fun and makes the faction stand out because of it.

I dont think this should be removed or nerfed. Its something fun to work towards and adds something a little extra to the world of Arelith. But as always thats just me.

[garrbear758]

I probably won't ever play a paladin again (the RP just isn't for me) and I am pretty exclusively playing evil characters with the occasional neutral.

I don't want the ring removed or nerfed either, I just want the love spread.

If it does get nerfed, I wouldn't do anything except lower the spell resistance a bit.

[Vrass]

Sauron disagrees.

Sauron was still defeated, the ring did not change the outcome.

[Archnon]

Sauron disagrees.

Sauron was still defeated, the ring did not change the outcome.

That is because he never got it. They gave it to some would-be paladin to destroy but I digress.

The sr is a bit high but it seems to be rampant on the server through other items anyways. I mostly want items like this for other groups for the quest and rp potential. The gear is a bonus.

[strong yeet]

I don't know when it was ever a good idea to reward mechanical/material items to in-game factions. It's heavy-handed, top-down, and undermines the idea of player-first roleplaying.

Agreed very wholeheartedly, a concise way to summarise my thoughts on this frankly worrisome development trend. Seeing this kind of thing encouraged by the administrator made my heart sink.

Paladin tags, Pirate tags, just pigeon-hole RP into tasteless, predetermined boxes. They do not enhance storytelling, they restrict it and encourage quickshot "kill on sight" or dull "red team vs blue team" RP. Sometimes I sigh when I see peoples' reactions to pirate-tagged characters, but on the same hand, their reactions are often the only truly IC move to make, and while we can say a lot about bending character for the sake of narrative, many people simply do not understand or do not care about such things; neither should someone be forced to make that choice on account of something as flat as a tag that reads "Buccaneer" in red text at the bottom of a description. They can choose to simply ignore the tag and pursue different, less immediately antagonistic roleplay instead -- but at that point, the tag is superfluous. It forces something, either feigned ignorance or a reaction.

You will never be able to build a reputation through mechanics. There are no Dread Pirates except the ones who earned that title through interaction with other players, there are no Knight-Commanders except the ones who earned that title through interactions with other players. Doing writs to kill NPCs on an Amnian ship, or to kill devils in Benwick has no effect on the game world, or the collective fabric of player interaction beyond injecting some XP & gold into it. You can theoretically make a big event around the fact, but again with that we run into this issue of the fact that you Don't Need Tags, or special writs, or four-stat-four-discipline rings for it.

However, all that said, I will say that I agree with Outcast tags. An Outcast is a character who lives in the Underdark and is strange and aberrant and simply does not belong in the regular world with regular people for a wide variety of reasons. Not everyone is able to properly portray that kind of character with the depth that its very concept necessitates (part of why I don't particularly like Outcasts as a concept in the place, but in an environment like Arelith's, I believe you either have Outcasts or you don't have UD humans/half-orcs at all) and I don't think they should be barred from it on virtue of that fact, simply because it's very broad. Whereas my umbrage with the other two tags is that they are extremely specific, yet by their nature demand concepts which might not fit them exactly be compelled to use them regardless; see "pigeon-hole."

I realise that, to a degree, the Radiant ring is something of a reaction to the Beast Belt being an extremely powerful item, but there are cleaner ways of addressing that problem. Which, namely, would simply be to nerf the belt, rather than offering a competitor with its own set of restrictions. Because it's too strong in the first place.

Also, please don't add a 4 stat pirate ring

[Apothys]

Cant agree with the tags meaning nothing. They do.

In sencliff they are used as an RP tool and we show respect to those with the greater Ink. Doesnt have to be something that hurts RP, in fact its a great way for places without a settlement goverment like Cordor or Andunor to show some sort of leadership. Its then up to the PC to use that to use this to there advantage if they wish and its something everyone can do if they put there mind to it. In contrast thats not something many can do in any of the other major cities.

Also the main thing about gaining the ink of sencliff and the ranks of the radiant heart is that its fun. Im sure im not alone in thinking these are good things and will entice more people to play these factions and any others that this system is introduced too. I say bring more places with this sort of ranking in, i would definately be tempted to try them out and see what new forms of RP im exposed too, espicially if they have an incentive like the rings of the radiant heart.