Alternative Methods for Access to Award Races

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Shadowy Reality
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Re: Alternative Methods for Access to Award Races

Post by Shadowy Reality » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:01 pm

Void wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:36 am
It does not. It heavily favors people with more playtime available.
Of course it does and there is nothing wrong with that. If I have more time than you to do stuff ingame then I get more stuff done ingame, that's just how it is. That means I will probably roll characters more often than you and hence have more shoots at getting better rewards.

Applications are not doable, the staff have better things to do. And this would be very similar to how RPR was in the past, people didn't like that. And to be honest, I think that worked better as most of it was gated at 30. People didn't like that, because they always believed that they were worthy of that RPR, they just weren't lucky enough to get a DM to watch them.

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The GrumpyCat
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Re: Alternative Methods for Access to Award Races

Post by The GrumpyCat » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:04 pm

20 rpr counts on you being noticed by a DM
if you're not playing much, you've less chance of being noticed
Also we're simply more likely to agree to concepts (esp difficult concepts) Of players we trust, again - that counts on us seeing the players on.
Also as Shadow Reality says - under those restrictions we'd get way, way, way too many applications. I doubt the DMs could handle it.

I mean I actually agree that it can be argued that this system does lean a bit too much on high playtimes, and not enough on roleplay yeah. But think lots of playtime will always give some advantage.
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Re: Alternative Methods for Access to Award Races

Post by Void » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:11 pm

Shadowy Reality wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:01 pm
Of course it does and there is nothing wrong with that. If
There is a lot of wrong with that because person with limited playtime can be a better roleplayer than someone who plays all week long. The idea of restrictions is theoretically to limit restricted race to people who contribute to the server. Simply being online does not necessarily means contributing.
The GrumpyCat wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:04 pm
20 rpr counts on you being noticed by a DM
if you're not playing much, you've less chance of being noticed.
<snip>
Well, that was an example. It can be tweaked. For example one application per IRL year per player.

Sure, a lot of playtime gives a lot of advantage. But it feels like there should be some sort of alternative metric other than playtime for restricted races.
Another forum ban, here we go again.

CptJonas
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Re: Alternative Methods for Access to Award Races

Post by CptJonas » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:13 pm

The GrumpyCat wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:21 am
I would also like to increase possiblities for lower tiered rewards too, yes.
But given we no longer do the 'something special' for 5%, I want to keep a very large vareity to keep them super 'special'. Also to help keep things rarer, oddly enough. If for a 5% all we had was, for example, Tiefling. Then you'd end up with lots and lots of tieflings around.

What I'm getting from this thread , and those like it, is that

a) People want a system that allows for more people to play special races
b) People want a system that allows for fewer people to play special races
c) People want a system that is much more based on roleplay - which will mean DMs fiat (as DMs judge good rp)
d) People want a system that does not rely too much on DMs judging good rp
e) People want a system that has more applications
f) People are concerned about a system that may require too many applications.
g) People want more powerful and exotic options for 5%
h) People want fewer powerful and exotic options for 5%
i) People want more automation
j) People wnat less automoation.

I think we have to settle here that, whatever is implemented, people will not be happy.
Yeah...thats nature of people...

What I would do...
Remove random chance from lower tiers....such lotery shouldnt be in game..its basicly gambling...
Leave it as:
lvl 16 - minor
lvl 21 - normal
lvl 26 - Greater

Well..and about 5% roll...I will let it be...But I would reserve it to level 30 sac.... and let it be 5%...with 1% increase for every 200k gold as it is curently...

Ad what I would add to all rewards.....that you must use them in like 1 RL month or they are lost...so people dont hoard them...they instead actualy use them to create new characters....this would make reward circulation more fluid...

These things would actualy help common non gringers to get atleast some good rewards....remove bad taste in your mouth when you roll your beloved lvl 30 and get just normal reward as what you would get for rolling random lvl 16 character you made in 3 days....

And it would stop grinding..people who want only Greater or lower would not need to grind...they would just play one character to get that...
And at same time...it would make 5% roll more rare and harder to get for those who grind for it...

Edit: And I would limit players to have just maybe 1-3 characters in vault...so people cant save their rewards or unusable/unsoported characters in there forewer...
Last edited by CptJonas on Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Huschpfusch
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Re: Alternative Methods for Access to Award Races

Post by Huschpfusch » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:16 pm

---- Just an addition to application thinking because I forgot to specifically mention it in post----
Provided the procedure still is as
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=22908#p182119

Add statement of character based events/DM events to the list.
Add statement of character-related but not needing character involvement events/DM events.

----------------
The idea behind this to force the player applicant to come up with seizable quantity of in game content that can and will be played by the player providing content to participate in to others, but also content that the team can run unrelated to the player's presence as a tradeoff for staff time spent reading and handling application.
Quick Example:
Vampire application
Vampire spawn has broken free from mental connection to True Vampire by luring vampire hunters to it.
Freed vampire spawn flees to Arelith from being persued by the True Vampire's spouse and the vampire hunter mercenaries.
And based on whatever the vampire spawn was previously to being turned undead can shove additional player and DM eventlines into game.
"Oh look, an unidentified magical wand - let`s just see what it does by randomly using it in battle!"

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Re: Alternative Methods for Access to Award Races

Post by Shadowy Reality » Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:08 pm

Void wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:11 pm
Shadowy Reality wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:01 pm
Of course it does and there is nothing wrong with that. If
There is a lot of wrong with that because person with limited playtime can be a better roleplayer than someone who plays all week long. The idea of restrictions is theoretically to limit restricted race to people who contribute to the server. Simply being online does not necessarily means contributing.
Ok, let's imagine things get changed and 'good roleplayers' get to play what they want. You just removed the 'DMs just haven't watched me enough' excuse. I do not know how this plays in most people's heads but let us be entirely frank here:

The reality is the great majority of players are not RPR 30 standard players. Do not get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with that, RPR 20 is very solid and perfectly okay to have. You can stay IC, you know the setting, your character has depth. But that is not enough.

Going beyond that is a lot of work and not as trivial as it may seem. I am very glad there are people like these out there and you probably know who they are. Do you know that character that you really enjoy roleplaying, that character that everyone seems to enjoy roleplaying with, that character that always seems to be in the middle of it, whether they have the spotlight or not, that character that makes you feel amazing, that character that comes out of no where and leaves you baffled, that character that moves the world? Yeah, chances are that player has RPR 30. (and if they don't, perhaps they should, send a PM to the DM team saying they are amazing roleplayers!)

In the end, even if this was changed as people propose here, the great majority of people would still be disappointed, and more, now they would have no chance at it at all, unless they stepped up their game by a bunch, and that is harder than getting a character to 26 and rolling.

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Re: Alternative Methods for Access to Award Races

Post by Void » Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:27 pm

Shadowy Reality wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:08 pm
In the end, even if this was changed as people propose here, the..
Both methods can exist at the same time, obviously.

To know what "great majority" thinks, you'd need to run a poll. Without a poll, that's an assumption.

What I do know is that I'd be happy with the system where people have a chance regardless of available playtime. Application if they have little time, or grinding if they have a lot.
Another forum ban, here we go again.

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Re: Alternative Methods for Access to Award Races

Post by Opustus » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:07 pm

Upon scanning this thread, I don't think anyone has really considered what other resources than character level and money could be used to roll for the reward. There are at least two more: time played and experience points.

If the system wants to
-reward good roleplay,
-prevent people from making farming characters to roll for rewards,
-incentivise rolling matured characters,
-and keep reward races unique to varying degrees,

then maybe combine time played and experience by making good use of the roleplay tic system?

Per character, you accumulate a roleplay experience gauge with thresholds respective to the reward types. Lower RPR means a lower progress rate, higher RPR means a higher progress rate. The tics are already designed to prevent people from afking to earn experience, so the same logic would apply here too.

End result: a system that accounts for RPR and time spent playing a character, treating people inclined towards PvM and social RP equally, while no longer encouraging potentially flimsy farm characters.
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Re: Alternative Methods for Access to Award Races

Post by Drowboy » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:14 pm

A lot of mmos have daily rewards to get you to log in even if you don't necessarily want to play, and this sounds a lot like that and about as fun.
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Opustus
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Re: Alternative Methods for Access to Award Races

Post by Opustus » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:19 pm

Drowboy wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:14 pm
A lot of mmos have daily rewards to get you to log in even if you don't necessarily want to play, and this sounds a lot like that and about as fun.
Uh, what I suggested is not much like it really. It encourages active playing per character (character commitment?), not logging in because logging in wouldn't accumulate the RP experience tics at all whereas time spent playing the character would. Mind you, I'm one of those players who log in mostly for their round of writs and suffer from a severe case of altitism with 15 characters in the vault, so the suggested system would probably be the least favourable for players of my type.
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Eters
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Re: Alternative Methods for Access to Award Races

Post by Eters » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:52 pm

As far as my understanding goes, the purpose of the entire reward system is a certain circulation of characters, you make a character, you play it, you roll it, you get something out of it potentially. There is just one simple issue with it all, and that is that the current "progression of a character" isn't one thing, I'd say there are three pillars that we can consider when speaking about character progression.

The first is character level, the journey from level 1 to level 30 is not exactly difficult, it's the most straightforward path one follows through writs all the way to level 21, and from there it slows down a little, but not too much. The leveling process can take from a week to a few months depending on playtime.

The second is gear, the journey from level 1 to level 30 is manageable with average gear, that said once people reach the summit (level 30) , they seek to continue a certain "progression" through gearing appropriately, with the way runes drop, 5%s work, etc... It could take from a month to a year for someone to have the "gear they want". While it isn't really as important as it seems it's something that people work towards and extends their playtime of that character.

The third is the actual narrative of the character, that depends on far too many factors to put a specific time on it, some characters have short lives, others take time to thrive.

But the overall is that the process of a character's life is long, so the "circulation" doesn't often happen from rolling, but /shelving/. For you see, we shelve our characters more than we roll them, yet are only rewarded for rolling them definitely, which can take a while and which also causes people to create "sacrificial characters", either goblin druids or warlocks as they're the easiest to level even with the gift of humility.

What if it was possible for people to use -shelf command to shelve one character per vault (So people don't just abuse this) for a period of 6 months, the character is unusable in that period of time (goes into an empty map until the period passes or something...) and for shelving that one character, you're allowed to roll for reward at the same rates as rolling characters so :

(16-20: 25% normal, 75% minor.)
(21-25: 10% greater, 35% normal, 55% minor.)
(26-30: 5% major, 20% greater, 75% normal.)


If you obtain a minor, or a normal from such, the day you'll decide to roll your character you would be given another chance to roll for reward at your leisure. For example you shelf a level 30 character using the command and get a minor, when you unshelve them and eventually roll them later, you can roll again (could get a minor from it, just as you could get a major.)

If you obtain a greater or a major reward, that's it, you keep it, and the day you roll that character which you shelved you will not be allowed to roll a second time for reward.

Will this stop the grinding? No. Will anything stop the grinding? I doubt so as the grind is deep in the roots of gaming in general, but will this give a chance for people who do not want to roll, and are passing through a burn out the chance to be reinvigorated with creativity after shelving their character? Maybe, I don't know, it remains just an idea and thus open for debate.

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Re: Alternative Methods for Access to Award Races

Post by Kuma » Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:14 pm

Eters wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:52 pm
What if it was possible for people to use -shelf command to shelve one character per vault (So people don't just abuse this) for a period of 6 months, the character is unusable in that period of time (goes into an empty map until the period passes or something...) and for shelving that one character, you're allowed to roll for reward at the same rates as rolling characters so :

(16-20: 25% normal, 75% minor.)
(21-25: 10% greater, 35% normal, 55% minor.)
(26-30: 5% major, 20% greater, 75% normal.)


If you obtain a minor, or a normal from such, the day you'll decide to roll your character you would be given another chance to roll for reward at your leisure. For example you shelf a level 30 character using the command and get a minor, when you unshelve them and eventually roll them later, you can roll again (could get a minor from it, just as you could get a major.)

If you obtain a greater or a major reward, that's it, you keep it, and the day you roll that character which you shelved you will not be allowed to roll a second time for reward.

Will this stop the grinding? No. Will anything stop the grinding? I doubt so as the grind is deep in the roots of gaming in general, but will this give a chance for people who do not want to roll, and are passing through a burn out the chance to be reinvigorated with creativity after shelving their character? Maybe, I don't know, it remains just an idea and thus open for debate.
i like this idea a lot actually. technically this means more people will have rewards, but encourages people to try out other things and decide "hey after that break, maybe i'll just leave [shelved character] done for now/delete them anyway". try before you buy, to a certain extent.

that said, i'd restrict it since you can get a character to level 16 and -shelve it in, like, 3 days (especially during a quarantine) flat and guarantee yourself a minor or normal for free. even hitting 20 isn't really much of a deterrent, i've got a character right now i could do that with that i'm not playing for 6+ months at least and nab possibly two rolls.

it has legs but i'm not sure how to balance it out.
CptJonas wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:13 pm
Ad what I would add to all rewards.....that you must use them in like 1 RL month or they are lost...so people dont hoard them...they instead actualy use them to create new characters....this would make reward circulation more fluid...
wrong! they would hoard the characters, THEN roll them when they wanted whatever the thing is.
Huschpfusch wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:16 pm
Add statement of character based events/DM events to the list.
Add statement of character-related but not needing character involvement events/DM events.
a good application should have this regardless, but i'm concerned about people also thinking that being an application race is also a request for a personal storyline from the dms.
Opustus wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:07 pm
Per character, you accumulate a roleplay experience gauge with thresholds respective to the reward types. Lower RPR means a lower progress rate, higher RPR means a higher progress rate. The tics are already designed to prevent people from afking to earn experience, so the same logic would apply here too.

End result: a system that accounts for RPR and time spent playing a character, treating people inclined towards PvM and social RP equally, while no longer encouraging potentially flimsy farm characters.
if this gauge is hidden, players will be frustrated and not even sure it's actually helping or possibly just bugged and nobody looks at it again (i'm not being rude this has historical precedence here is all i'm saying). let's say you're level 26 and have been playing the char for 6 months, fairly frequently. this is not considered worthwhile, but you don't know that, and you have a 30RPR. you think you have a shot, without knowing your best roll could ever be a greater, not a major. you get a minor and are rightly frustrated. i don't think this is a good vibe

if this gauge is publicly explained in any way you again wind up publicly declaring an arbitrary statement of "how long is long enough" for a character to be worth a 16 or a 26 level roll. not even in terms of character activity, but like. your number of hours logged in. that's a bit wack. over december (our summer) my work in hospitality was so flooded i couldn't keep up with IG events enough so i took a break and came back in mid january. i don't think that should impact negatively on my chances.
Shadowy Reality wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:08 pm
In the end, even if this was changed as people propose here, the great majority of people would still be disappointed, and more, now they would have no chance at it at all, unless they stepped up their game by a bunch, and that is harder than getting a character to 26 and rolling.
thank you for finding the words to put it politely, i was struggling. many of the people thinking this'll help them will find themselves possibly more frustrated and possibly outright indignant.

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Re: Alternative Methods for Access to Award Races

Post by Opustus » Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:45 pm

Kuma wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:14 pm
Opustus wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:07 pm
Idea post
if this gauge is hidden, players will be frustrated and not even sure it's actually helping or possibly just bugged and nobody looks at it again (i'm not being rude this has historical precedence here is all i'm saying). let's say you're level 26 and have been playing the char for 6 months, fairly frequently. this is not considered worthwhile, but you don't know that, and you have a 30RPR. you think you have a shot, without knowing your best roll could ever be a greater, not a major. you get a minor and are rightly frustrated. i don't think this is a good vibe

if this gauge is publicly explained in any way you again wind up publicly declaring an arbitrary statement of "how long is long enough" for a character to be worth a 16 or a 26 level roll. not even in terms of character activity, but like. your number of hours logged in. that's a bit wack. over december (our summer) my work in hospitality was so flooded i couldn't keep up with IG events enough so i took a break and came back in mid january. i don't think that should impact negatively on my chances.
Thanks for taking interest in the idea!

I would probably go for a visible gauge, because it's very easy to make and it's clear. [roleplay xp] / [roleplay xp required for next reward] type of representation would be plenty.

And I don't think it's any more arbitrary than experience for levels is. With levels, you can affect how efficiently you level up with the available tools, impacted also by how the DMs have rated your RP. With the roleplay tic system, you can affect it by how much you spend time on a single character, impacted also by how the DMs have rated your RP. In a very similar manner, the levels also represent time spent although to varying degrees due to the effect of efficiency. Your inactivity impacted your chances negatively by way of you not being able to level up characters by playing the game.

Furthermore, designers make decisions like this all the time without them being arbitrary. What amount of XP is enough for what kind of activity? How much XP is required for a level? How does RPR affect that? There are reasons behind these decisions, and surely "how long is long enough" can also be answered reasonably.

In the current system, the fastest powerfarmers might be able to get a character to 26 in a matter of days, while some people have played a character actively for a year without reaching that level. Should the former player type's ability, actions, and/or interest to efficiently level characters be a reason to give them access to special races? Should the latter's inability, inaction, and/or disinterest to efficiently level characters be a reason to keep them from getting special races? If playtime per character and RPR were the deciding factors, with reasonable requirements for different reward levels, would it change player behaviour for the better? Would people who are less interest to powerfarm feel this system treated them better? Would it disincentivise the making of superficial characters to run writs on repeat and would the lack of these characters make for a better RP environment? Etc.
Last edited by Opustus on Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kuma
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Re: Alternative Methods for Access to Award Races

Post by Kuma » Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:02 pm

Opustus wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:45 pm
Furthermore, designers make decisions like this all the time without them being arbitrary. What amount of XP is enough for what kind of activity? How much XP is required for a level? How does RPR affect that? There are reasons behind these decisions, and surely "how long is long enough" can also be answered reasonably.
xp and levels and stuff are a set of game rules and so work in a fairly abstracted ecosystem; trying to automatically convert "valid roleplay" into a numerical metric that's turned into "how much time should this valid roleplay have been done within to be eligible for what rolls" (as opposed to perceived quality and overall contribution awarded by DMs) seems a bit different.

that being said i now realise i'm looking on this like a moral discussion of value and not how many hobgoblins is too many hobgoblins. i suspect something that looks like your idea will prob be the one that ends up happening

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Re: Alternative Methods for Access to Award Races

Post by Opustus » Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:24 pm

I don't see why game rules are given so much legitimacy when they're used out of context, e.g. when using levels to determine reward rolls. Levels are meant for character advancement and its logic is extrinsic (though usable) to the considerations of how people should or shouldn't be allowed to play rare races.

I'd honestly be for anything that would treat social roleplayers better and reduce the practice of farm characters. Also, based on a hunch, I dislike the RPR system as a whole, because I assume that people who take their RP seriously are actively mentally affected by the idea of there being better or worse roleplayers, this effect further complicated by notions of favoritism, fairness, and so on. So, even in my own opinion, the idea has a flawed basis, and should be taken more as sport than politics.
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Re: Alternative Methods for Access to Award Races

Post by Huschpfusch » Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:37 pm

Kuma wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:14 pm
Huschpfusch wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:16 pm
Add statement of character based events/DM events to the list.
Add statement of character-related but not needing character involvement events/DM events.
a good application should have this regardless, but i'm concerned about people also thinking that being an application race is also a request for a personal storyline from the dms.
Okay then throw out the pc-releated Dm-event sentence (1)and in place of that put something like:
ideas for meaningful interaction with other PCs/PC factions with focus on how those events/quests entertains those others, especially PCs in conflict with award character.
That should eliminate that worry of personal DM story while still forcing player applicant to create content for others.

Good applications may have them already, but lousy applications should have them even more. No application without.
If it is not already requirement, would not hurt to have creating significant post-event storycontent for opposing characters as a requirement for DM eventrequests such as raids also. (Not simply stuff that is a continuation of the base conflict between event parties, but is indepently runable. Kicked off by the event but indepent. Y-shaped. Ah, but I am digressing. So end post here...)
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Re: Alternative Methods for Access to Award Races

Post by CptJonas » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:05 pm

Kuma wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:02 pm

that being said i now realise i'm looking on this like a moral discussion of value and not how many hobgoblins is too many hobgoblins. i suspect something that looks like your idea will prob be the one that ends up happening


And is that isue? If for example 40% of players want to play hobgoblins should be stop them?
I personaly dislike this artificial population control...Its like...do we control same way elves? Dwarfs? Or even humans? No? So why we are treating those other races like this?
Is it bcs it doesnt fit FR lore? This place...arelith is not 100% FR anyway....What problem is with overpopulation of for example forest gnomes? This is secluded island...just look on what happened in australia with rabits...
I can see only problem if said race is picked bcs mechanical power...but i that case..why dont we nuke humans and put limits on them?

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Re: Alternative Methods for Access to Award Races

Post by Kuma » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:13 pm

the words setting integrity mean things

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Re: Alternative Methods for Access to Award Races

Post by Babylon System is the Vampire » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:53 pm

The game has a built in feature to ensure that humans are the most popular race, it comes in the form of +1 feat + 33 skill points.

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Re: Alternative Methods for Access to Award Races

Post by DangerDolphin » Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:55 pm

The GrumpyCat wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:21 am
What I'm getting from this thread , and those like it, is that
a) People want a system that allows for more people to play special races
b) People want a system that allows for fewer people to play special races
g) People want more powerful and exotic options for 5%
h) People want fewer powerful and exotic options for 5%
I mean, that's always going to be a debate here, but in general I thought the concern here was that the special and exotic races were not handed out sensibly. RPers are disadvantaged to action players, which seems bizarre for an RP server.

Personally, I would like more diversity in races and more options for people to play. That definitely doesn't have to mean powerful or flashy though.

The GrumpyCat wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:21 am
c) People want a system that is much more based on roleplay - which will mean DMs fiat (as DMs judge good rp)
d) People want a system that does not rely too much on DMs judging good rp
e) People want a system that has more applications
f) People are concerned about a system that may require too many applications.
i) People want more automation
j) People wnat less automoation.
Yes, we all want a system based on roleplay, I hope. But RP is very subjective, and what one DM considers great RP another may consider awful.

Arelith has a hands-off DMing, automate as much as possible policy and it's awesome. I would definitely not want to be at the mercy of timezones, when a DM feels like playing or what mood they are in on a particular day. I also would not want to bury DMs under a mountain of applications when they could spend that time running a story in game for a party, which is what DMing should really be about - creating fun. I don't believe that anyone asking for more DM involvement in approving special races knows what they are asking for, or the huge amount of work it would involve on a server this size.

The best compromise is to use automation and assume that anyone with at least 20 RPR is spending their time roleplaying when they are logged in and reward people as such.

Aeralad
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Re: Alternative Methods for Access to Award Races

Post by Aeralad » Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:42 am

Let's just make an ai that approves or disapproves applications like any dm would. That'd solve it right? Hehe.
I am the champion
When they write my story they're gonna say that I did it for the glory
But don't think that I did it for the fame I did it for the love of the game

CNS
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Re: Alternative Methods for Access to Award Races

Post by CNS » Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:25 am

One thing I would like to add to this discussion is about RPR.

First, I think it's badly named. While 20 and below are all about roleplay, anything above that really isn't.

There's an expectation of good roleplay but really if you take a moment and read what the wiki and quotes from dms are saying, 30 and 40 are better viewed as making the server more fun for other people.

You can be the single best role player in the world for portrayal of a character and sit at 20 forever because 30 and 40 are about making things happen and creating fun for other people.

I call this out because several people in this thread seem to be operating on a different assumption.

Please correct me if I'm wrong and apologies if I've misinterpreted anyone posting before me. But if we are talking about using something as a measuring stick we should be clear on exactly what that something is.

The1Kobra
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Re: Alternative Methods for Access to Award Races

Post by The1Kobra » Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:01 am

Is there a way to check, before a character is deleted, how many hours they have been played as?

As it is, the reward roll chances are largely the same for a character who's been around for RL years, made many great impacts on the server, as a character that was speed-levelled to L30 in 2 weeks and solo-grinded their way to getting enough gp to get the highest bonus for the award roll. I think some of the contention with the system is because of that.

Level doesn't necessarily mean meaningful RP, and low level characters can offer some of the most meaningful interactions. Mind, back when XP was a lot harder to get, it usually did, but no system is perfect.

Perhaps the award roll could be adjusted to go off of character lifespan, in part? If this is possible, of course.

Quidix
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Re: Alternative Methods for Access to Award Races

Post by Quidix » Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:43 am

I'd be very wary of creating a more DM-oriented system, as 1) it will rapidly become a huge timesink for the kind server staff, and 2) it opens up for a host of potential favouritism / bias topics [not saying there is any today, but let's be honest that these topics will for sure become a big deal].

I think the ideas for more application system is a classic "everyone thinks they're better than average" - but in reality 95% of applications still have to be denied. A lot of people think they deserve it, but demand to create new special characters will far outstrip the 'balance' we want to keep on the server overall. Also, I also think there can be a substantial gap between an application (no matter how well written) and how well a character is played in game - so not sure how much better it will really be.

Instead, I think the solution is what has been mentioned by some already, revolving around an automated system that still encourages RP. I think this can be done with only a few tweaks to current system:
  • Make sacrifice rewards based time 'ticks' rather than level - this means no points for grinding and rushing passed others in pursuit of the roll
  • Keep 20 RPR requirement and where possible improve anti-afk checks - eg 'ticks' where no chatting occurred does not count
  • Limit # rolls to 1 per X weeks - to avoid abuse

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Huschpfusch
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Re: Alternative Methods for Access to Award Races

Post by Huschpfusch » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:14 am

CNS wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:25 am
One thing I would like to add to this discussion is about RPR.

First, I think it's badly named. While 20 and below are all about roleplay, anything above that really isn't.

There's an expectation of good roleplay but really if you take a moment and read what the wiki and quotes from dms are saying, 30 and 40 are better viewed as making the server more fun for other people.

You can be the single best role player in the world for portrayal of a character and sit at 20 forever because 30 and 40 are about making things happen and creating fun for other people.

I call this out because several people in this thread seem to be operating on a different assumption.

Please correct me if I'm wrong and apologies if I've misinterpreted anyone posting before me. But if we are talking about using something as a measuring stick we should be clear on exactly what that something is.
http://wiki.arelith.com/Role_Play_Bonus

Scratch the word "master" from the Gygax sentence and move that sentence to the RPR 20 statement as follows:
"Stays in character at all times, creates a memorable personality, and is fun to play with, willing and able to bend their character concept to make the game more enjoyable for all involved."

Because, most likely, Gygax was speaking in the context of traditional DD setting with a DM to player ratio of 1:4/6/12.
Whereas on a rp-persistant world such as Arelith the DM to player ratio is much worse, meaning that players will mostly be playing with and against each other thus in fact taking on storytelling and monitoring functionalities traditionally assumed with the role of DM.
Therefore playing in a mind set that consciously or subconsciously creates fun for others is to be the default mind set in order for a rp-pw to run smoothly.
That works even if just a critical mass of players is doing it, because they are able to compensate for the blundering of others operating on in-character locked mind set only rather than scenic thinking.

Regardless of their actual RPR Arelith seems to have a critical mass of players operating in a more Dm-like/scenic mind setalready, with occasional partial playerbase eruption of unnecessary drama.
The unnecessary drama could be reduced by focusing much more on the "is fun to interact with" part of the RPR 20 statement and making the aforementioned DM-like functionalities of players on a rp-pw much more explicit in the ruleset.
"Is fun to interact with, also by opposing characters" - it should probably read also, because the other side of the story is repeatedly overlooked in action and planning from what I have witnessed.
"Oh look, an unidentified magical wand - let`s just see what it does by randomly using it in battle!"

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