New Classes Feedback Megathread

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garrbear758
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New Classes Feedback Megathread

Post by garrbear758 » Wed May 13, 2020 11:52 pm

Now that the new classes (swashbuckler, hexblade, shaman, favored soul, and cavalier) have been on the main servers for awhile I'd love to get some feedback from people that have played them significantly. Please only respond if you've used the class on a character that is at least level 20. You do not have to answer all of the questions, but any feedback is greatly appreciated.

GENERAL
1: Which of the new classes are you playing?
2: What is your intended build

FUN
3: What abilities are fun
4: What abilities are not fun / why?

COMBAT
5: How is the leveling experience on it
6: How has it fared in pvp (if applicable)

BALANCE
7: Are there any significant gaps that could be filled with gear? If so, what would be your suggestions for the gear?
8: Does it feel balanced compared to similar classes? If not, then what is unbalanced about it?

PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND IN THIS THREAD UNLESS YOU HAVE PLAYED THE CLASS AND LEVELED TO AT LEAST 20
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Za-Lord~s Guard
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Re: New Classes Feedback Megathread

Post by Za-Lord~s Guard » Thu May 14, 2020 1:40 am

I have played Shaman to 23, and have a favored soul at 18 now.

The shaman was planned 27/3 shaman barbarian. The favored soul is planned 27/3 favored soul, specialist.

The leveling experience for both was pretty painless. Since feedback is only desired for classes played past 20, I'll focus on shaman.

Thematically, shaman is one of my favorite classes on the server - but the entire time I was playing shaman, a main consideration was "I could be doing all of this same stuff but better and more as a druid" which is ultimately why I rolled the character at 23. It has spontaneous casting, but it loses some big perks (animal companion, shapeshifting) in exchange for it.

In terms of balance, the main interesting twist it has to set it apart from druid is the ability to specialize in undeath - which a lot of people will likely enjoy, but there's not a lot of incentive mechanically to be a shaman reanimator as opposed to a palemaster or a cleric since both are reanimators with stronger overall kits to draw on.

It's a great support class, but it doesn't really bring any support tools to the table that a druid would not (along with the other additional perks druid has). It doesn't have support as potent as a healer cleric, or a bard.

It's a great class in terms of versatility, since it can be expressed and roleplayed in a number of ways, but it can't specialize in anything sufficiently to be competitive mechanically.

My own shaman was focused on conjuration and not necromancy.
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Re: New Classes Feedback Megathread

Post by Gouge Away » Thu May 14, 2020 6:35 pm

I'm quietly leveling a shaman and haven't fully committed yet to the character- still in the teens, still deciding whether to keep playing. I am going for a full wisdom "elemenatilist" caster instead of any melee build since I'm trying to avoid playing a druid by another name. So far at level 16 I'm finding the character somewhat boring to play because there's just not that much to do besides summon, buff and wait. They do have quite a bit of PVE survivability but I find the character running in circles a lot trying to get the summon to draw aggro, especially once all the call lightnings have been spent.

I am not sure what I would say is needed-- maybe allow some infinite low level spells with GSF like wizards and sorcerers get? Being able to use an endless healing sting or ray of enfeeblement would be good for healers and necromancers, maybe flame lash elemental spells for evokers. Obviously with caps on power to keep them from being too good but it would be something for caster shamen to do, assuming caster shamen is even something you're encouraging.

I also think Dominate Person could be in their arsenal as voodoo-style (non-undead) zombies seem up their alley.

Of course none of this speaks to how the character would perform should I stick it out to max level and I know level 30 vs level 30 PVP is what people on Arelith seem to care about most when discussing builds.

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garrbear758
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Re: New Classes Feedback Megathread

Post by garrbear758 » Thu May 14, 2020 11:02 pm

Appreciate the feedback! Caster shaman is definitely something I want to encourage. I'll look into options to give shamans more to do when they run out of spells.
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TroubledWaters
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Re: New Classes Feedback Megathread

Post by TroubledWaters » Fri May 15, 2020 2:06 am

Thanks for collecting!

GENERAL
1: Which of the new classes are you playing?
Have a cav at 22.
2: What is your intended build
7 Figher/5 Cav/18 CoT- it's been working pretty well so far

FUN
3: What abilities are fun
-The extra movespeed feels great
-Spirited Charge feels great when it hits
4: What abilities are not fun / why?
-Unfortunately, Spirited Charge also seems to not be working as intended. You toggle the combat mode on and your APR is reduced to 1, which is a big painful charge. This is great! Unfortunately, Spirited Charge has a 12 second cooldown and your next round of attacks is also reduced to 1 APR. Meaning, you toggle between one slow big hit, and one slow weak hit. This is compounded by the fact that you can't actually turn off Spirited Charge in combat, so you're left staring at a Near Death enemy for two full rounds until you can charge again. This is a lot of time, and it would be good if the ability could be toggled off in the next round to have the regular 4 attacks as normal. Better yet, the combat mode should automatically alternate between 1 charge round and 1 round of 4 regular attacks, as opposed to 1 charge, 1 weak hit.

COMBAT
5: How is the leveling experience on it
-This one got levels 4 and 5 in epics in order to take advantage of the bonus feats, so leveling without a summonable horse or Spirited Charge was tough. Game changed when I hit 21 and took Cav 4. Charge is fun, but the problems noted above make the character difficult to use.
6: How has it fared in pvp (if applicable)
-Haven't PvP'd with the Cav yet, but given the above noted issues with Spirited Charge I don't see it doing very well. Given that you only have 1 APR even on your Spirited Charge CD rounds, Epic Dodge builds are 100% immune from your attacks.

Also, in PvE, you can get around the 12 second CD to attack again by riding around in circles, which can be fun and in solo play feels like Mount and Blade (I did a whole Minmir skeleton horde like this once). However, given the ubiquity of Haste, Expedited Retreat, and Monks, everything will likely catch up to you and wreck you while you are standing there delivering your 1 weak attack in your off round. This, again, would be helped if you could turn off Spirited Charge to again attack like normally during the off round.

BALANCE
7: Are there any significant gaps that could be filled with gear? If so, what would be your suggestions for the gear?
-Gear has seemed mostly okay. All Cav are vulnerable to Attacks of Opportunity as they are sitting on a -60 tumble penalty, but it's left to the gods of NWN jank as to whether or not the attack actually triggers due to your move speed and distancing from the attacker. A high UMD Cav item that gave Spring Attack could help with this and put the class on par with almost every other build in the game that has some way of avoiding AoOs.
8: Does it feel balanced compared to similar classes? If not, then what is unbalanced about it?
-The current setup of Spirited Charge makes the class feel great taking out mid-tier PvE targets in 1 hit, but besides that it feels extremely weak damage-wise due to the above-mentioned issues with the ability.

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Re: New Classes Feedback Megathread

Post by sarithia » Fri May 15, 2020 3:33 am

Playing a shaman with a 6 level ranger dip (24 shaman) and at level 28, now.
Over all I do love the class, I feel the rp aspects are great, but there does seem to be something missing when it comes to being a competent class in terms of what others can offer etc. Level wise, it’s fine, someone said above that generally you sit, buff summons and wait for the things to essentially die which, if I didn’t have arrows in her arsenal to help speed things up, would generally be the way she goe so since this does tend to be a go to, perhaps some more party spells would be useful to further that support, or maybe like the way Druids can talk to a secret npc, is there perhaps a way to do with that the elemental monolith for shamans or something or for a companion of sorta ? Though I don’t know if that would interfere too much with a Druids abilities.
Gear wise, I’ve been opting for enchanted gear with, naturally, a con or wis addition as well as armour of immolation (my shaman is squishy)
Pvp wise I have no idea how much it holds up, but the saves on the class I think are great.


EDIT: Instead of adding a new reply to save spam, thought of some ideas. Shaman is an odd one because it can be interpreted in so many different ways, so is there, perhaps, a way to segregate the types via the addition of domains similar to how clerics have (but much more weeded down, naturally) so like animal domain, necromantic domain, etc or having two separate paths perhaps - path of the elementalist, path of the spiritualist - since I think in DnD a shaman typically draws from one of these two? Path of the spiritualist maintains the divination focus, and path of the elementalist perhaps adds SF: evoc?
Last edited by sarithia on Fri May 15, 2020 8:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Diegovog
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Re: New Classes Feedback Megathread

Post by Diegovog » Fri May 15, 2020 3:57 am

Playing casually a shaman, not fully invested. So far I've been really enjoying it. The divination is super cool, has synergy with detect poison (and I was really excited being able to find a poisoned well) and spells like true seeing fit so well into the whole shamanic theme.
In terms of combat it hasn't been exceptional, maybe lacks a bit offensive synergy with the barbarian rage. I'm a barb/shaman who will be able to provide a lot of utility and buffs to the party. Not into the epics yet.

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Re: New Classes Feedback Megathread

Post by Purplemyst » Fri May 15, 2020 7:10 am

I haven't played the classes until epics on the main server, however I have tried to build up many FS and Shamans on the build server.

Both are great classes.. but I just got the feeling something was mechanically missing. They need their own cookies. The divination focus is a neat touch to the shamans as is the barb synergy.

I look forward to see what you guys do with them.

Edit: I think there was discussion around the shamans getting a spirit. What if this came in the form of a ghost/spirit stream only available to the shaman. The stream could potential go right up to EDK (obviously not a dragon) and be more level dependent i.e 27 levels give you access to the EDK shaman stream. Then theres additional benefits to going almost pure shaman. I think that would probably give it the cookie it needs.

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Za-Lord~s Guard
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Re: New Classes Feedback Megathread

Post by Za-Lord~s Guard » Fri May 15, 2020 1:59 pm

Purplemyst wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 7:10 am
Edit: I think there was discussion around the shamans getting a spirit. What if this came in the form of a ghost/spirit stream only available to the shaman. The stream could potential go right up to EDK (obviously not a dragon) and be more level dependent i.e 27 levels give you access to the EDK shaman stream. Then theres additional benefits to going almost pure shaman. I think that would probably give it the cookie it needs.
If they're ghostly/undead spirits, this runs the risk of shoehorning shaman into the "palemaster 2: this time it's spiritual" hole.

Shaman probably should not lean harder into undeath than into elemental spirits, otherwise it just becomes another evil class since there wouldn't be incentive to play one instead of a druid except to dabble in reanimation.

Updating EDK with a special stream is also likely going to be more of a flavor touch than a new mechanical feature (with prisms, you'll find other casters everywhere using the special shaman stream soon enough). Shaman needs a little more to mechanically distinguish it from druid I think; a familiar would be a flavorful touch with some mechanical benefits (since the familiars offer spells the master may not have), but it would likely just result in everyone picking the pixie until familiars are rebalanced.
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Re: New Classes Feedback Megathread

Post by serono » Fri May 15, 2020 4:52 pm

1: Currently playing the shaman lvl 23.

2: Caster 27 / 3

3: Being primarily a buffer / cc caster right now, it feels very satisfying trapping large groups in spells while allies / summons taking them down.

4: When I’m not throwing spells I shot with the crossbow, often miss as I dont have good AB. I could pick up zen archery but ultimately decided against it as main focus caster. Not comfortable going melee in most cases.

5:
Leveling solo and in groups have been fun thus far. Yet may hit a wall when it comes to high level areas in which spells are resisted or due to immunities. During the fight with the Stxy Dragon I felt rather powerless while my companions slowly grinded it down. AoV, Warcry, summons and healing helped tho.

6: Not happened yet but close. I felt confident to give them a nasty surprise.

7:
My gear is self-enchanted or found.
Most of the Druid craftables are interesting with added shaman spellslots/restriction.
But anything to increase DC on my spells, AC, HP helps.
I also bought a "Leaf Sickle" only for the +2 Wisdom as offhand in hopes Id use it in later on.

8:
The only other caster I played up into epics is the sorcerer so I’ll compare it.
As sorcerer having excess to improved Invisibility, mass haste, many cloud and direct damage spells(igms) I think they are the better support class for short term fights, bosses, etc.
The shaman with access to elemental swarm, healing, regeneration spells is more sustainable.

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Re: New Classes Feedback Megathread

Post by Jack Oat » Fri May 15, 2020 11:43 pm

GENERAL
1: Which of the new classes are you playing?
Shaman

2: What is your intended build
27 Shaman/3 Monk

FUN
3: What abilities are fun
Honestly all of it. The Divination portion fits the RP well and feels innate. The spell list is complete, but forces you to make sacrifices in some angles for the benefit of others. For instance I didn't take certain spells at level 5/6/7 because I wanted other spells from that level instead.

4: What abilities are not fun / why?
I feel kind of cheesy playing a Shaman/Monk knowing full well that Shaman was intended to work/synergize with Barbarian. To that extent, however, there's no real synergy with Barbarian to make it worthwhile. If I went 23 Shaman/4 Barb/3 Rogue for Tumble/Evasion dip and the Rage bonuses, I'd only end up with a Rage level of 18 or so and have fairly low AB because there are no spells to help mitigate the AB loss.

COMBAT
5: How is the leveling experience on it
Same as a Druid or Caster Cleric.

6: How has it fared in pvp (if applicable)
Well enough. I haven't gotten into high-tier PvP but in the couple encounters I've had it hasn't really seemed silly or stupid.

BALANCE
7: Are there any significant gaps that could be filled with gear? If so, what would be your suggestions for the gear?
If the intent is to push for Shaman/Barb, some sort of medium armor that grants spell slots and/or WIS and/or AC would be a good match-up. Doing Shaman/Monk I'm able to just wear all the Monk gear and max by WIS out without even needing a staff or anything. I don't see a similar set-up for Shaman/Barb.

8: Does it feel balanced compared to similar classes? If not, then what is unbalanced about it?
It definitely feels balanced. It's a Divine Caster with access to Breach, but loses some of the key "Divine Casting" spells (WoF being key) that would make that a big issue.

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Re: New Classes Feedback Megathread

Post by Lexx » Sat May 16, 2020 12:10 am

GENERAL
1: favoured soul
2: 24 favoured soul/6 divine champion
FUN
3: The divine casting on a sorcerer progression works wonderfully. You have flexible options in gearing since you can supplement gear with spells till you can afford what you need. Especially with your main weapon.
4: Not really applicable. it's very fun and I've really not felt any negatives.

COMBAT
5: The initial few levels are a bit of a slog. But by level 10 a melee focused soul really hits its stride and has flexbility for equal viability solo as much as in parties.
6: n/a so far.
BALANCE
7: I would potentially like to see either a helm or robe for non melee favoured souls that gives extra castings to 1-2 circles as a mid to high end robe crafted. It would help pure caster support favoured souls to shine. As melee favoured soul with some sort of martial dip functions great as it is.
8: I would feel yes it is balanced compared to it's closest relative. The battlecleric. It sacrifices a clerics domains and flexibility for a narrow field and endurance in what it can accompish.


I would also like to add it's been one of the most fun mechanically classes I've played in my time on Arelith. As it stands it strikes a nice balance between power level/viability without lacking weaknesses and counters that can be exploited.

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Re: New Classes Feedback Megathread

Post by Scraps » Mon May 18, 2020 3:14 am

1. Which of the new classes are you playing?: Swashbuckler! Currently level 20.
2. What is your intended build: 30 Swashbuckler Sun Elf with 20 hard Int. (Yeah I know. Still for Heavy Swashbucklers I think most of what I say here will be pretty similar for the first 20 levels.)

3. What abilities are fun: Swashbuckler is pretty tepid for a long while. It does feel good to get that bonus damage from int though, and even the bonus +1 at 10 gets felt. You don't feel like the wet noodle most Dex builds are when not Sneak Attacking something.

Riposte and Second Intention are real winners, of course. It feels good to whittle some big threatening thing down as you poke and chip away and dodge their hits.

I'll update for third intention. But I love the idea of a high skillcap ability that rewards you for predicting big CC or dangerous burst, and it really fits the theme of a duelist living or dying on split second reactions.

4. What abilities are not fun / why?: Acrobatic Skill Mastery. -The active portion at least. Don't get me wrong, I see the value. It just feels very boring. The 24 upgrade looks great.


5: How is the leveling experience on it. It does fine. I was able to mostly solo through the Skaljard content with judicious potion and scroll use for simple buffs. -I'd say I found it about as easy to solo content as my pure Fighter. Your AC can be helpful in parties too, and they really shine with some proper wards.

6: How has it fared in pvp (if applicable) Not Applicable

7: Are there any significant gaps that could be filled with gear? If so, what would be your suggestions for the gear? Stat gear. There's just a lot of plates to spin on a Swash in terms of stats. Ideally at least some of the gear should be somewhat anti-synergistic with Assassins, because I feel like both classes are very much after the same kind of stats. Maybe some stealth penalties on gear, the sort of flashy stuff a duelist would wear.

No slashing DI on a torso is also very scary, because that's where most of the 18-20 crit weapons sit.

8: Does it feel balanced compared to similar classes? If not, then what is unbalanced about it? Very hard to say. I think most big dex builds play very differently to swashbuckler.

The closest things I'd compare it to are.. Heavy Monk or Dex Melee Ranger?

I don't play monks to reasonably compare the two. It'll have better defensive options over a Dex Ranger with Epic Dodge, but likely fall behind on things that it isn't able to Second Intention on damage.

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Re: New Classes Feedback Megathread

Post by Linlan » Wed May 27, 2020 12:15 pm

1. Which of the new classes are you playing?: Cavalier ! all the way to Cav5 of course

2. What is your intended build: R9/Cav5/F16, originally a TWF dexer who converted to a full fledged dwarf lancer. Because war ponies.

3. What abilities are fun: Riding, because new areas are awesome and even more fun when horse riding.

4. What abilities are not fun / why?: Spirited Charge currently limits the use of the Cav class to a specialized action in combat (hit and run in circle for 12 sec, being chased by critters)

The Summoned Warhorse could possibly use an improvement based on character level, or Ride skill ? its 30HP makes it a weak companion when underground (and if removed from party, it wanders off) compared to Riding Horse / Warhorse / Destrier that can be found IG.

Heavy investment in Riding skill could probably provide AC bonus, ie replace Tumble AC bonus rather than simply offset the loss of Tumble AC. 10 for 1 = opting for Epic Riding Feat would equate Armor Skin when riding ?

5: How is the leveling experience on it. no material impact on leveling, riding speed boost is a nice QoL boon and provides for fun exploring RP

6: How has it fared in pvp (if applicable) Not Applicable

7: Are there any significant gaps that could be filled with gear? If so, what would be your suggestions for the gear?
- A heavy lance recipe, providing slight STR boost like some of the Enhancement+3 & Stat+2 items in the loot matrix (staff of water , longsword etc).
:arrow: Call it Cormyrian Model 1812, just because! :D

Adding gloves / Helm with Ride skill bonus could be interesting for variety and benefit non combat riders as well. Or let the cordor boot-maker spur other pieces of gear than your boots ?

8: Does it feel balanced compared to similar classes? If not, then what is unbalanced about it? I'll echo TroubleWaters' feedback, that when activating spirited charge (12sec cool down, so 1 attack every 3 rounds), the dmg output is off compared to party members.

A great class for would-be explorers.
Looking forward to rolling a true Cormyrian Purple Dragon, next.

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Re: New Classes Feedback Megathread

Post by Ninjimmy » Thu May 28, 2020 7:40 am

1. Which of the new classes are you playing?: Swash 25

2. What is your intended build: Swash 30 Half-Elf, was initially planning some Rogue Levels but opted for the full 30 for maximum Dodge AC. Strongly leaning Dex with Charisma and then Int to boost the RP elements.

3. What abilities are fun: The boosts to AC make for a fun thematic, dodging/skilled tank (most times), All three intentions are great, first two thematically and last one for skill timing. The Int boost hasn't come into play as often for me due to a few build choices but it's still very appreciated, just split with Charisma for Swash DCs and skill features.

4. What abilities are not fun / why?: Acrobatic Skill Mastery is a little tepid, as much as it's fun to suddenly dash forward until level 24 with freedom of movement it just felt cosmetic.

5: How is the leveling experience on it?: Fairly alright? I've had some difficulties with getting surrounded and my AC plummeting but the high ranks in Parry have made up for lower damage and also been flavourful as heck (once my AB caught up).

6: How has it fared in pvp (if applicable)?: Not tried yet

7: Are there any significant gaps that could be filled with gear? If so, what would be your suggestions for the gear?: The only thing that springs to mind is stuff that would boost Dex, Cha and Int as well as a related skill like bluff or parry but that'd be pretty specific.

8: Does it feel balanced compared to similar classes? If not, then what is unbalanced about it?:

Well, I was levelling with a Fighter/WM, Ranger/AA and a Rogue/Fighter so... damage output but that's partially down to the build and the company I keep.
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Re: New Classes Feedback Megathread

Post by Dubhwulfe » Thu May 28, 2020 2:36 pm

GENERAL
1: Which of the new classes are you playing?
Favored Soul, level 20. (Technically like 2k xp from 20, but please don't hate me. This is my main and I love it... and I have time to sit down and give some feedback now so I regret nothing!
2: What is your intended build
Favored Soul 27/Paladin 3 - A chosen of Selune who along the way learns more about the goddess who gave him her grace. Eventually he intends to be anointed (already done) and accepted into Paladinhood. He's a Battlepriest archetype, with some heavy caster focus... specifically focusing on some of the cooler Epic Spell Focus abilities in my opinion.

FUN
3: What abilities are fun
I LOVE the spell list. It gives me a lot of neat tricks, and I'll be damned if I didn't have to sit and stare at the screen when choosing to really pick what I wanted to keep in my arsenal. I love that I have to make choices, and that I can't just do it all, but I love the choices I do have. Innate casted haste is cool too, because I feel like I can use it more often due to not "holding out a spell slot." The elemental resistances are really cool too. They're not overpowered at all, but they give neat flavor and help out a bit here and there.
4: What abilities are not fun / why?
There isn't a ton of issues with the abilities, since you have the magical resistances, and the haste 4x/day. Other than that it's just a spontaneous cleric from a mechanical standpoint. I'd love to see something similar to the Monk's glowing eyes to signify a certain level of favored soul. In 3.5, if I recall favored souls would get wings once they reached level 20, signifying the connection they had with their god/goddess. Maybe give some kind of toggleable wings that give +1 dodge AC or something?

COMBAT
5: How is the leveling experience on it
My god, the leveling was fantastic. I started with GSF: Conjuration, and I feel like I could solo the world with my abilities. Maybe even a bit overtuned. I had heals, summons, melee presence, buffs, heavy armor... I literally have everything, it feels.
6: How has it fared in pvp (if applicable)
Only been involved in one major PvP situation, and I did well enough. Thing is, I'm not built for PvP specifically, I've made Malcolm into a utility build... but if he enters the situation fully warded up, he can be very dangerous. If he's caught even vaguely offguard, that's a dead knight.

BALANCE
7: Are there any significant gaps that could be filled with gear? If so, what would be your suggestions for the gear?
Noticed that I'm not able to use pretty much any of the "good aligned" gear, because it's almost all locked into "Paladin/Cleric/CoT/Knight"... I'd like to see favored souls that match the alignment restrictions added into that.
8: Does it feel balanced compared to similar classes? If not, then what is unbalanced about it?
Feels incredibly strong, but that's just me. I imagine it's actually just slightly weaker than a Cleric in the long-run, but still, divine casters have always been strong in this system.

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cowboy
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Re: New Classes Feedback Megathread

Post by cowboy » Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:14 pm

Favoured Soul I feel is missing out on two key things that'd make it "desirable as an alternative." I really like it but I'll throw in only in two categories and keep it simple.


FUN
4: What abilities are not fun / why? - The Haste feat. It's not fun because it can't be meta magic'd and it sort of limits potential party support.

BALANCE
8: Does it feel balanced compared to similar classes? If not, then what is unbalanced about it?

I think it is almost there; I just think since it loses out on div might / div shield / turning / domains it needs a bit more to make up for a different sort of playstyle. Right now I don't think I'd want to be a caster because it doesn't have native haste, or a holy warrior because it also doesn't have haste.

I'd ditch the haste feat and just give them haste at spell level 5 as a choice.

---

Outside the whole scope of this thread I think one part of them from PnP which is really cool is missing. In PnP they got free focuses / proficiency in their god's holy weapon. On Arelith that could be sort of possible but it'd be tedious and not all of their weapons exist.

I think it'd be cool if they just got to choose a free weapon PROF or free weapon focus that'd fit with that and orient them towards that theme.

thats really all i have to say - its otherwise enjoyable and almost an alternative / sorc-like cleric.
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Re: New Classes Feedback Megathread

Post by Floral Shoppe » Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:37 pm


GENERAL
1: Which of the new classes are you playing?
2: What is your intended build


Cavalier, 5 Cav/ Rogue/ (secret)


FUN
3: What abilities are fun
4: What abilities are not fun / why?


Answer should be obvious, riding a horse! Not fun? Not being able to find a horse!


COMBAT
5: How is the leveling experience on it
6: How has it fared in pvp (if applicable)


Rogue heavy, at least at first, so not terribly different than a rogue/fighter, except of course I'm favoring writs outdoors to be able to ride.

BALANCE
7: Are there any significant gaps that could be filled with gear? If so, what would be your suggestions for the gear?
8: Does it feel balanced compared to similar classes? If not, then what is unbalanced about it?


This was brought up in another thread (viewtopic.php?f=37&t=28767) but I wanted to address it here, playing a halfling dex-based cavalier means having to take two full sets of weapon feats since lance is the only finesse pole arm for small races. If she was medium size I would still be limited to quarterstaff which would mean dual wielding is the only option.

It was suggested that for cavaliers lance proficiency could match your other weapon feat proficiency and I think that is a good idea.
Lances are only usable on horses and some builds will have no option to take a pole arm weapon when you're not able to be on horseback. This puts a small size finesse character 3 or more feats down compared to a strength based cavalier as they need to take two full sets of weapon proficiency.

I echo the suggestion that since lances are only used on horses and since the cavalier levels are basically fighter-but-worse when you are not on horseback (since no horses are allowed in dungeons so that is a lot of the time) they should get lance proficiency as a class ability.

(though I wouldn't turn down allowing small-sized races to use quarterstaffs as an option either..)

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Opustus
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Re: New Classes Feedback Megathread

Post by Opustus » Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:10 pm

GENERAL
1: Which of the new classes are you playing?
-Hexblade
2: What is your intended build
-Pure hexypoo, gold dwarf with EDRIII, sacked Dex and left Cha at 12; grabbed heavy armour prof.

FUN
3: What abilities are fun
-Hex is fun and not fun, rationale below!

4: What abilities are not fun / why?
-The hex ability, which is the only real thing to do as plain Hexblade, is fun for a very simple reason; it marks targets in PvE by order of importance, bringing to mind the target markers from World of Warcraft. It brings a tactical element to NWN which has otherwise been lacking, and I find it fun to mark targets.

Otherwise the Hex ability suffers from several clunks. Firstly, there's what I believe to be a round-based cooldown after killing a target, which since I am not computationally able to count to exactly or even approximately six seconds, leads to me spamming the Hex for maximum Hex efficiency. The transition between the Hexes feels very clunky and contains a great deal of totally unnecessary keysmashing. If the transition was totally smooth without any noticeable delay, it'd feel much sweeter, rewarding reaction time even. Then again, I do understand levelling the playing field for players who aren't too quick with their fingers or play with a console that makes ability use clunky. If it works like it does due to an engine restriction, then heyho.

Image

The Hex bonus, while powerful, is very tacit. The AC/AB reduction is not something that would smash a gratification button in my brain filling me with glee. Some other kind of effect for a more visceral gratification would be appreciated, like some extra damage that would make the numbers flashing atop the enemy's head a little bit bigger. Maybe tying in Hex with the bonus damage of Curse weapon would make it feel more rewarding, because the extra damage for hitting hexed targets would correlate to reaching the redglowing targets?

I very much dislike how the extra elemental/magic/neg/pos damage from Curse weapon works off of an onhit proc, cluttering the damage numbers with an embarrassment of 5s and so. I would much prefer if this damage could be visually compiled somehow.

Lastly, while I think the choices between Hexes and Curses offer interesting build options, I think the "good picks" are narrowed down to the usual suspects of AB/AC reduction and damage buffs. Also, the choices for the damage types, while interesting choices per se, feel unnecessarily constrained as core build decisions. Changing the damage types for each damage buff e.g. would be a very interesting dynamic, buffing Hexblade inconspicuously with some versatility in terms of how they prepare for certain hunting areas or otherwise combat situations. It might be even fun to be able to switch between the Hexes themselves: when accompanied with a mage, you could switch out to Saves reduction.

What I might even suggest would be to rework Hexes and Curses into the Hex ability entirely, keeping Curse Weapon for the EB buff, where Hex determines the target with the extra damage inflicted by the caster. Further, I'd make all the Hex ability choices changeable post levelling with an easy console command menu, where you can make a new layout for your Hexes on the fly. I have no clue if the engine allows this, how much work it would be, and if there would be severe balance implications or potential exploits opened, so it's possible this suggestion is entirely or partly untenable.

COMBAT
5: How is the leveling experience on it
Levelling has been easy. Anything with Str does fairly well early on, summon scrolls, and wands later for Impinvis/Haste has made hunting livable. And the panther was actually very useful for solo in the early game, also presenting a decent mechanical challenge; basically, I knocked down opponents and had the panther only attack the KD'd targets so as not to draw aggro. Later into the game the cat becomes too frail for this as any aggro drawn tends to kill it. So I just switched to Pixie so I could be lazy with gearing.

It's got the tools for solo PvM, but it's not by any means the best PvMer. I'd say that Hex is a very beginner friendly class to play, though; has a spellbook with important basic buffs you can use if you were otherwise too lazy for potions and wands, tends to go Str which makes life a bit easier in the earlygame, the weapon buff is great and makes crafting an early 1d4 + Keen + 4 damage pretty damn strong, Pixie means you get to go where you please. There aren't any specific tricks you should know, no surfeit of spells to learn by heart etc. that would make the gameplay particularly hard or privy to veteran players.

6: How has it fared in pvp (if applicable)
Haven't PvP'ed but I'll use this for other kind of feedback. I totally and utterly suck at evil RP, so I haven't been at all abrasive towards people or furthered any evil goals that might have gotten me in trouble. I chose Hex for the sake of testing it, and I'm probably rolling it very soon. I have no clue how to RP the Hexbladeness of my character either, so... Yeah, I suck, and the class isn't meant for me because of the alignment restriction. However, if Hexbladeness and the evilness thereof excites players and creates an interesting dynamic with otherwise aligned people, I am by no means suggesting that Hexblade should be made available to non-evils.

BALANCE
7: Are there any significant gaps that could be filled with gear? If so, what would be your suggestions for the gear?
-Not really, Hex tends to be very straightforward to gear. If anything, giving some hexy gear options to reinforce the class thematic would be just fun. The class progression feels very nice, and I appreciated many of the usually vapid levels being rounded out with some nice perks like Hex/Curse feats. As it happens, my character, since it skipped 3 and 4 level spells and doesn't get D.Might/Shield, won't even be maxing Cha because Uni saves for gear is doubly economic in terms of property slots.

8: Does it feel balanced compared to similar classes? If not, then what is unbalanced about it?
-On paper it's like a very mildly watered down BG/Paladin/Fighter/PDK etc. when comparing only numbers, and the Hex's effect sticking on only one target at a time is palpable in solo PvM especially in the higher level range. This disadvantage is offset by the fact that the Hex is a partybuff with no windup. I'd say it's in a good place, with builds like Hex24/Divine3/Tumble3 being the top dogs. Skills are strong and Hex gets a total 2 more skills to max than ye olde BG or Pally, so that's a feelsgoodman right there. Good job with the balance and class progression all around.
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Re: New Classes Feedback Megathread

Post by Aniel » Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:13 am

Hello everyone, this is serving partially as a bump as some time has passed since this thread's inception but also it's to say that the range of eligible feedback has widened a bit to gather as much input as people want to provide.

Below is the format that replies should be kept too. The metric that should be used rather than level 20+ is if you feel that you've played enough of the class to offer any insights from your experiences with it.

All such feedback is welcome.
GENERAL
1: Which of the new classes are you playing?
2: What is your intended build
3: What level have you achieved?

FUN
3: What abilities are fun
4: What abilities are not fun / why?

COMBAT
5: How is the leveling experience on it
6: How has it fared in pvp (if applicable)

BALANCE
7: Are there any significant gaps that could be filled with gear? If so, what would be your suggestions for the gear?
8: Does it feel balanced compared to similar classes? If not, then what is unbalanced about it?

Scraps
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Re: New Classes Feedback Megathread

Post by Scraps » Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:39 am

I'd like to amend my post. With Feint/Second Intention not stacking, heavy swashbuckler builds are pretty lackluster.

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Re: New Classes Feedback Megathread

Post by Basementfellow » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:14 am

Experimenting on the PGCC, I'm not sure what doesn't make Cleric obsolete to Favored Soul. What am I missing? Free Haste, easy access to all the worthwhile Cleric spells and[ their most desirable Domain spells, all spontaneous cast. I never felt like I was sacrificing anything. It was really easy. I have to reiterate, I never wanted for more spells. I never felt particularly feat starved. The high saves across the board and free resistances were just icing on the cake. It felt like I just got everything a Cleric would get (and more), but could use them more often before resting. I'm genuinely curious what the downside might be.
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Re: New Classes Feedback Megathread

Post by jomonog » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:33 pm

Basementfellow wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:14 am
Experimenting on the PGCC, I'm not sure what doesn't make Cleric obsolete to Favored Soul. What am I missing? Free Haste, easy access to all the worthwhile Cleric spells and[ their most desirable Domain spells, all spontaneous cast. I never felt like I was sacrificing anything. It was really easy. I have to reiterate, I never wanted for more spells. I never felt particularly feat starved. The high saves across the board and free resistances were just icing on the cake. It felt like I just got everything a Cleric would get (and more), but could use them more often before resting. I'm genuinely curious what the downside might be.
No divine might/shield is main trade off

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Re: New Classes Feedback Megathread

Post by Chosen Son » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:58 pm

Clerics have empowered harm, extended haste, div shield/might, and war domain power as things that favored soul lacks.

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Re: New Classes Feedback Megathread

Post by NMan7496 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:01 pm

There's also an added versatility that come from being a prepared caster. Additionally, there's the IG priest stuff, like consecrating altars, that you would otherwise need to burn a gift for.
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