Weapon Buffing Spells Change

[DangerDolphin]

"This place is now a tooth-gnashing nightmare that is completely not worth visiting because by the time you're capable of providing counterplay to the mechanics the XP has ceased to be worth the investment."

If there are particular dungeons that you feel need to be looked at because their reward sucks for the risk, or they're simply too hard or not worth the XP, then please provide separate feedback for those dungeons. I can certainly agree there are some writs I go for more than others because they are more worth the time.

There is also a stickied thread for this: viewtopic.php?f=37&t=25911&start=75

[Flower Power]

There are a lot of games where a Boss is made more powerful due to players being vastly better than creature AI.

Except, with the exception of that lone goblin shaman with Premonition in a L3 dungeon, those aren't bosses. These are random mobs that you can get multiple spawning inside a single group.

[AstralUniverse]

I call that lvl 3 goblin with premonition a beacon of creative balanced pve mob design. It is very well designed around you needing to beat him through the DR.

[Ork]

Arelith current development cycles always seem so backwards. You recognize there is an issue with blacksmithing and level design, but instead of filling the gaps first - you nerf a scroll that has never been an issue in the entire span of Arelith's history until now.

[DangerDolphin]

Arelith current development cycles always seem so backwards. You recognize there is an issue with blacksmithing and level design, but instead of filling the gaps first - you nerf a scroll that has never been an issue in the entire span of Arelith's history until now.

You still have access to GMW scrolls that provide an adequate enchantment for you to level up with. If this is still too hard for you, you can find a party to group with pretty easily at low levels.

[Wuthering]

I just think worrying too much about making low level content difficult for anyone who knows the server inside and out seems like a futile endeavor. Dropping GMW a few points doesn't change the craziness everyone can pull off with scrolls after the lore change at low levels. Writs speed you through so quickly nobody has to stay below level 10 for long in the first place. Epic casters can still dole out crazy buffs and epic characters can still gift their "apprentices" cash and gear, usually with good IC reason to cover their bases. Etc etc. And you can't make the low level dungeons too difficult because we're all different skill and experience levels and many classes take until at least level 5 to 10 to wind up. So for the most part the low levels are a formality for anyone after their first few characters, just something you need to get through because it would feel wrong to start at level 15 and it's probably helpful to live in the character a little before they're too powerful.

So in essence, I don't care that much about the change itself but I wonder about the value of making more changes to "balance" low level content. That seems like "it is what it is" territory to me and balance issues should be considered for where we spend most of the game. Just one opinion, of course.

[DangerDolphin]

You are of course free to your own opinion, but we are not going to stop balancing low level content because you want to skip over it. Arelith is first and foremost a roleplay server, not a "level to 30 then PvP" server.

You are expected to roleplay your character through their low levels as much as when they reach epic levels - if your idea of fun is to ignore RP while you grind to 30 as fast as possible then feel free, but that's not what the server is about.

[AstralUniverse]

I just think worrying too much about making low level content difficult for anyone who knows the server inside and out seems like a futile endeavor. Dropping GMW a few points doesn't change the craziness everyone can pull off with scrolls after the lore change at low levels. Writs speed you through so quickly nobody has to stay below level 10 for long in the first place. Epic casters can still dole out crazy buffs and epic characters can still gift their "apprentices" cash and gear, usually with good IC reason to cover their bases. Etc etc. And you can't make the low level dungeons too difficult because we're all different skill and experience levels and many classes take until at least level 5 to 10 to wind up. So for the most part the low levels are a formality for anyone after their first few characters, just something you need to get through because it would feel wrong to start at level 15 and it's probably helpful to live in the character a little before they're too powerful.

So in essence, I don't care that much about the change itself but I wonder about the value of making more changes to "balance" low level content. That seems like "it is what it is" territory to me and balance issues should be considered for where we spend most of the game. Just one opinion, of course.

I had to read it twice to understand what 'team' you're on. It almost seemed like you argue in favor of the changes. Everything you list there are very much THE reasons to nerf GMW scrolls, rather than making the entire content harder.

[Wuthering]

I don't "want" to steamroll low level content and I go at a good pace, for the record. If i was blasting through without RP I would keep my mouth shut because why ruin a good thing? If anything I struggle to keep up because I'm a weekend player in non-pandemic times and people I meet one saturday are 10 levels ahead of me the next.

I am saying this is what I see. Things like double oozes in Anundor and completely outfitting recruits in factions are a much bigger problem, as is the lore change that lets everyone access overpowered scrolls. The writ system may be far too generous as well. I could keep going but I just think if we want low levels to be more challenging and fun for both new and experienced players there have to be some really major cultural and mechanical changes.

[ReverentBlade]

Devs: "This is an RP server!"

Devs: *Nerfs having friends*

[Irongron]

The writ system may be far too generous as well.

This is my own view too, but I think a great many players are now entirely used to low levels (3-7) being over in just a few writs. I am one of a very small minority who preferred it when those levels meant something.

As for the rest? Well, it's kind of whataboutism to mention other things besides weapon buffs that contribute to trivialising low level content; it doesn't really negate the logic of this change.

In either case, its not going to be reverted. If anyone has any more constructive feedback, great, if not; I suspect this thread has run its course.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

I dont think you are in the minority at all, irongron.

There is a strong prevalence of characters not "showing up" until they are late teens or early epics. From a roleplay perspective, these powerful characters emerge from sometimes out of nowhere.

And its often because they have just breezed through writs for doing two weeks.

It would be very difficult to revert the leveling process, I think a lot of people have gotten used to it - but again, I think we should survey the playerbase to see level clusters and range.

[Ork]

As I have contemplated this change, I truly am grieving the loss of a powerful tool and nothing more. I play primarily low level characters, and due to my severe characteritis, rarely do I have characters achieve epic levels.

One of the reasons I have loved Skal is truthfully the availability of GMW scrolls. While I have reaped rewards for myself with these scrolls, there is a joy in equipping others to perform beyond their expectations. My fondest memories of Skal have been in educating new players to these mechanics that aren't intuitive. I've spent a lot of time and gold on my characters bettering some individuals before their inevitable confrontation with the dreaded Xvart queen or the TPK-maker, Krahk. My dissention is purely grief that this no longer is an option.

I'll repeat it here that these changes are a symptom of the cause, but I will be more amicable to changes in the future. I just beg that some consideration is made to triage some of the fallout these changes ultimately leave in their wake.

I do whole-heartedly agree that the low-level game is my favorite part of Arelith. Writs have changed the game, there's no mistaking it - and while I have originally been a strong advocate for writs, I do see how linear and limiting they have become. They reward the worst aspects of adventure - go here, kill that, cycle repeat. I would prefer a reduction in writ amount with an increase in reward. One writ a day with x3 the gold/reward. Or, change writs entirely.

I don't know what the answer is, but I had always held "RP at L30" to always be a meme and not a true statement of Arelith's norm. Maybe I'm wrong. And that saddens me.

[AstralUniverse]

I do whole-heartedly agree that the low-level game is my favorite part of Arelith. Writs have changed the game, there's no mistaking it - and while I have originally been a strong advocate for writs, I do see how linear and limiting they have become. They reward the worst aspects of adventure - go here, kill that, cycle repeat. I would prefer a reduction in writ amount with an increase in reward. One writ a day with x3 the gold/reward. Or, change writs entirely.

I don't know what the answer is, but I had always held "RP at L30" to always be a meme and not a true statement of Arelith's norm. Maybe I'm wrong. And that saddens me.

The norm has become Grind 3 writs/day, RP the rest of the time, and craft. When you get to epics your character can make end-game items if they focus on 1 craft, they can venture through 90% of the server content and this is where the leveling gets slower and people are mostly less concerned about it as they've reached their core abilities by lvl 22-23, mostly.

Is it perfect? Hell no and I kinda miss a lot of aspects in the old days.
But it's fair and it opens Arelith to a larger community with different playing times and styles.

[TimeAdept]

There's nothing wrong with 3 writs a day, RP the rest. Would you prefer people feel like they had to never stop grinding to 'keep up' - whatever their perception of keeping up may be?

People will grind no matter what. Writs allow a smooth journey through low and mid levels that helps people who don't have 10 hours a day to grind.

[Chosen Son]

I adore the writ system.

It creates a solid ic reason to go hunt stuff without having to rp a bloodthirst marauder for your leveling to make rp sense. It also ties you into the story of the world if you let it. It also lets me spend less time leveling. I can engage with the story world over the course of up to 3 writs to make progression leveling, and then spend rest of time rping or adventuring when in the past i felt any moment i was not circle grinding i was wasting time until I hit low epics and obtained mechanical relevance at a level I was comfortable with. The system has got me to see alot more of the server then ive seen in the past, let me engage with its story and in general enjoy the server more.

[AstralUniverse]

There's nothing wrong with 3 writs a day, RP the rest. Would you prefer people feel like they had to never stop grinding to 'keep up' - whatever their perception of keeping up may be?

People will grind no matter what. Writs allow a smooth journey through low and mid levels that helps people who don't have 10 hours a day to grind.

Yes, you're not wrong but I (and I think Ork too?) simply think it's all too fast, both for grinders AND everyone else.

[Shadowy Reality]

At the risk of derailing this even further, I entirely agree with Ork.

I also thought writs were the best thing ever, and they were, but only for a bit. Being able to very quickly get out of those early levels is great. The thing is that the progression doesn't really slow all that much, you can consistently get almost a level a day solely on writs alone. I have found myself flying through levels without playing all that much, which is really scary.

I also feel that it puts me under pressure. I feel like I should be doing my 3 writs per day, as not to miss on the EXP, but 3 writs usually take between 1-2 hours to complete, after that, sometimes I don't feel like playing anymore, so all I did was kill things, sometimes I am lucky to find other characters doing the same writs, other times I am all by myself and end up not getting all that much RP in.

I would be perfectly okay diminishing the gains after a certain level, or the amount of writs one can take per day.

[chris a gogo]

To fast maybe? but it is less boring.

The good old days of circle grinding for three hours to gain a level are replaced with three hours of doing different dungeons at a slower pace with alot more role playing.

Id take the second option every time.

[_-HiM-_]

I haven't read all the comments on this thread so apologies if this has been discussed, Wand CL for GMW, Keen Weapon, Flame Weapon etc are all still CL 5 and have no opportunity for scaling unlike scrolls, would be nice if wands had the same CL as their scroll counter part even if it only scales to character level. Just my 2 cents

[dallion43]

Please don't reduce the amount of writs per day or the gold reward. This brought me personally a lot of RP opportunites that would be difficult for me to create otherwise.
I am sure I am not the only one.

XP? Those after xp will just circle grind the amount req. Those that don't want to lvl fast...can enable adventure or...don't click on the lvl button :p.
But sure xp can be nerfed.

If you nerf xp and gold many won't bother with writs and prefer regular circle grind being more profitable.
This will lead to less rp opportunity to get know many others at lower lvls.

[NPC Logger Number 2]

Before even hitting level 10 I've done plenty of RP and even won a few PVP's on a couple of characters lately. All while doing writs. I gain about a level a day doing writs. I could level up faster circle grinding but writs are more fun and often lead to making new friends. If you've played on the server a while and know all the dungeons like the back of your hand of course it will be easy to level fast, writs or not. But it will be a lot harder for a new player and writs imo really help give them a sense of direction.

[Ork]

I don't think the current writ system should be its final iteration. There's a lot of work that could be done to make it more than just go, kill, repeat.

The writ system we have is elegant in that it doesn't require a lot of heavy lifting script-wise and is pretty modular to apply to new areas or monsters. I just dream of a day where instead of writs we have wanted boards, similar to the witcher 3, where you can acquire a quest to rescue timmy from a pack of hobgoblins and timmy spawns when the writ-taker nears the site. Obviously that's a lot of front loaded things with specific quests that require a little suspension of disbelief in how many times timmy can get abducted.

I just thing the writ system gave us something great, but this shouldn't be its final form.

That said, the GMW nerf seems impervious to my attempts at gaming it. I'll begrudgingly grumble about it, but yes it did make locations easier than it ought to have been.

However, I will say that while a M.steel sword at L3 is better than GMW, that boundary seems to leave at L9 when GMW gives +3.

[TimeAdept]

IT seems really weird that magic works fundamentally different on a weapon based on the arbitrary strength of the person holding it, and it's difficult to explain IC why when a level 30 character holds the sword, be it the mage or an associate, it becomes +5. If I had it t the acolyte of my order, and enchant it before they leave, it is only +1, or +2. The magic is the same. The weapon is the same. The person is never actually being interacted with, it's explicitly an interaction between mage and object.

That's my only real beef. Nerf the scrolls, whatever, but if the spell comes from an actual mage, I don't think it should have been changed. It creates IC dissonance, and unreasonably nerfs "working together" in a way that doesn't hart the game balance ecosystem - that was the crime of the scrolls and consumables, not the spellcasters.

[AstralUniverse]

Nerfing the scrolls for lowbies is not enough because of how easy it is to get 15 lore and cast it from a scroll on a lowbie when you're high level and this doesnt require much RP or interaction. "Excuse me sir. You look like an educated person. Is there any chance you could read this scroll and intent to cast it at me please?" And then you get back to point 0 where the scroll gives +5 to a lvl 3 character.