Aniel wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:21 pm
If you want to play in Menzoberranzan or another drow dominate city, there are other servers that accommodate that. Andunor is a trade city most comparable to Skullport.
As someone who is familiar with both the settings of Menzoberranzan and Skullport, and who currently plays a Menzoberranyr living in Andunor, I can safely state that Andunor is less open to surface visitors than Menzoberranzan itself. Menzoberranzan is by lore very open to visitors, especially visitors who bring there money. These visitors are afforded few guarantees and can meet their end in the City of Spiders if they are not careful, but they are not required to prove themselves as being pariahs among their surface peers to simply go there to trade (Underdark, 2003, page 161). Menzoberranzan has even a few free npcs belonging to surface races who are permanent residents, such as Myrlyth Calask (human priest of Lathander, undercover as hairdresser), Myrip Minstrelwish (halfling thief who works as perfumer), Olosk Dhaulvin (dwarf fighter, arms dealer), and Symeera and the owner of Narbondel's Shadow who own inns that welcome human visitors (Menzoberranzan, 1992, page 42 and map).
Any drow from Menzoberranzan would find the attitude of Andunorian citizens toward surfacers not only stricter and peculiar but also self-demeaning, and that's precisely how my main drow who is from there reacts to it, even if she usually does not care to do much more than pointing it out when she hears claims that are truly too outlandish.
And if Andunor is stricter compared to Menzo itself, then the comparison to Skullport is even less appropriate, as it is truly an open trade city where surfacers are not asked any questions if they come there to trade. In the 1999 sourcebook on Skullport multiple characters belonging to most surface races are mentioned, including even a (free) elf tailor named Kestin (page 54). Furthermore, while few human natives of Skullport (Skulkers) would declare their origin on the surface, there is no reason to think that they would be considered outcasts up top, without a reason. They are certainly not goodly, in general, but they are really not "outcasts" either (page 15).
The city in the lore that is most comparable to Andunor right now is Mantol Derith, in my opinion, and even then there are surface dwellers among the residents and there is no indication that these surfacers are seen as outcasts from their surface kin. (Drizzt Do'Urden's guide to the Underdark, 1999, page 42, and Underdark, 2003, page 160). Still, at least it fits the description of a trade city open mostly to monsters and Underdark races, unlike
both Menzoberranzan and Skullport.
NPC Logger Number 2 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:41 pm
Elves should FEAR the Underdark, not go there to shop and sing kumbaya around the fire with drow.
Albeit, in light of what I explained above, I find the general attitude toward surfacers in Andunor simply inconsistent and downright nonsensical, I do agree whole-heartedly with this point.
Even if there are some exceptions, as that tailor from Skullport mentioned above, I have found few, if any, references to an abundant presence of surface elves in the Underdark. I am not saying that a few exceptions cannot exist, they exist, and there are some in the lore in fact, but they do not seem any more significant than the presence of drow on the surface. Actually I would argue that the drow have at least Vhaerunite and Eilistraeean groups that actively pursue life on the surface, whereas the elves do not have anything of the kind. So these exceptions are in fact even less significant.
So it is fair to say that elves do not belong in the Underdark any more than the drow belong on the surface. The exceptions might probably be admitted in a multi-racial settlement like Andunor, but they certainly should not be many in my opinion, for the sake of the integrity of the setting, if anything else. And obviously their life should not be any easier than the life of a drow on the surface.
" then the DMs feel compelled to step in - oftentimes in very heavy-handed ways to counter seemingly legitimate roleplay. When an Underdarker's running a trade post on the surface and some DM-possessed local guard walks up and one-shots them without much in the way of satisfying interaction, it's easy to see why that Underdarker, and all that Underdarker's friends, feel as though they are relegated to unfair treatment, and feel justified in perpetuating that mistreatment unto others.
