please don't make the art students do math

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ReverentBlade
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Re: please don't make the art students do math

Post by ReverentBlade » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:28 am

Making sure the server TLK has accurate descriptions for every modified spell/feat/ability really is very very important. Transparency and clarity makes -everyone- happier in the long run.

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Jagel
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Re: please don't make the art students do math

Post by Jagel » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:02 am

The Rambling Midget wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:10 pm
It'd be nice to have mathematical formulas written out in the descriptions, so players can easily plug in numbers.
This would go a long way

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garrbear758
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Re: please don't make the art students do math

Post by garrbear758 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:10 am

There are some good points brought up here. I'm pretty busy right now due to real life, but I'm going to start the process of trying to simplify a few of the egregiously inconsistent formulas (Blackguard and Assassin having different poison DC scaling for example) and keeping the descriptions updated. With that said, I can't promise that anything will be done quickly or that we're going to change every formula.

I'm going to make a mega-thread for inaccurate descriptions. It would be extremely helpful and make the process go a lot smoother if you can post there if the in-game description is:
1. Wrong
2. Confusing
3. Lacking a formula when a formula should exist

Again, I can't promise anything quickly, but I hope this will help allay some concerns.

EDIT: Thread here: viewtopic.php?f=37&t=29123
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AstralUniverse
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Re: please don't make the art students do math

Post by AstralUniverse » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:09 pm

firstly, it will also give the player base who read it a general idea of what sort of things arent updated in game yet and it should help tons as is. Thank you.
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Seven Sons of Sin
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Re: please don't make the art students do math

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:39 pm

We could also compile a list of all new "cooldown abilities" that have been added, or tweaked in the past 2ish years? So we can see a breakdown. I'd help with that.
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White_935
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Re: please don't make the art students do math

Post by White_935 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:09 pm

Maybe a advanced character generator on the site could be a solution?
I mean i use a excel sheet to keep track of everything.

So for those figuring things out, inserting your character build and get a explanation for all the abilities, how the DCs work and see everything calculated out based on your stats + what changes it, so you can tweak and work on it without doing everything manually like today?..

Not sure if this is what's asked for, but it would reduce the math for the individual.

Gouge Away
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Re: please don't make the art students do math

Post by Gouge Away » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:13 pm

I might actually like to see "suggested builds" from the devs who make and test the class so you can get a sense what they had in mind. I feel like the commonly played builds on these new classes are often not what was intended.

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garrbear758
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Re: please don't make the art students do math

Post by garrbear758 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:26 pm

Gouge Away wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:13 pm
I might actually like to see "suggested builds" from the devs who make and test the class so you can get a sense what they had in mind. I feel like the commonly played builds on these new classes are often not what was intended.
so I've been refraining from posting builds on the new classes because I wanted to see what people came up with and not steer the conversation, but thats actually a very good counterpoint and I could definitely post some of the builds I either had in mind when making them or have made since then
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godhand-
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Re: please don't make the art students do math

Post by godhand- » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:52 am

magistrasa wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:31 am
I'm sorry, but I would literally rather get addicted to ketamine than take the hours required to figure out what a Swashbuckler build's numbers look like.
You make ketamine addiction sound like an unpleasant experience, I am now confused by your entire post. Is it opposite day?
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Opustus
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Re: please don't make the art students do math

Post by Opustus » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:02 pm

Good thread! I don't want my game experience to be a bookkeeping nightmare. Base NWN is already a convoluted system and Arelith's own modifications on top of it make it a hell of numbers and caveats and weird systems without a consistent logic throughout the game. Just look at how items are made: first you have a crafting system based on crafting points, then you have an enchanting system based on item value and tiers, and lastly you have a rune system based on properties and the "weight" of properties.

I'd like for a lot of the things to be way more streamlined than they are now and for systems to be consistent in their logic. I'm not clamoring for an overhaul of anything, I'm merely asking for the design team to prioritise fun and simplicity. Further, without some individuals diligently documenting changes on to wiki, a lot could be lost in the pipeline, so they definitely deserve a kudos too for their part in keeping the game fathomable.
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Gouge Away
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Re: please don't make the art students do math

Post by Gouge Away » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:41 pm

garrbear758 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:26 pm
Gouge Away wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:13 pm
I might actually like to see "suggested builds" from the devs who make and test the class so you can get a sense what they had in mind. I feel like the commonly played builds on these new classes are often not what was intended.
so I've been refraining from posting builds on the new classes because I wanted to see what people came up with and not steer the conversation, but thats actually a very good counterpoint and I could definitely post some of the builds I either had in mind when making them or have made since then
Yeah tbh it's pretty difficult to know what to do with some classes. I don't think you (I assume it's you) created shaman to be a tribal barbarian axe thrower but someone figured out that's the way to max out its power and that's what you see most of now. Meanwhile the one I made on the first day as a pretty much straight wis-based caster with ranger dip seems extremely lackluster and I feel like I missed the point completely. Just my own personal experience but with the other classes I'm also wary of jumping in as I'm not really sure what the ideal build as conceived by the creator might be, and there's a lot of good and bad info swirling around the forums and discord as to how to best build something like a swashbuckler. In particular there's a lot of suggested builds that are purely theoretical and may have glaring issues when played. Thanks for all the work btw.

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