Outpost Feedback

[Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia]

Just following up on the update which added the new Outpost construction options and/or another opportunity for me to shill the feature to literally shake your characters down for area work.

TL;DR, this is about the conversation with the new Outpost overseer NPC Marigorn who takes bribes from PCs for them to 'vote' on what sort of theme the fully overhauled Outpost will eventually take. He offers the options of a Trade-focused, Military-focused, Harbor/exploration-focused, Archaeology-focused, Mining/industry-focused, or Research-focused directions to advocate for, as well as loosely describes what that might look like down the line. What gets voted for and how much gold is given is tracked and I compile a fun little spreadsheet.

I promised to break down some of the data/decisions a little ways in, so about a month on from release here's some (obfuscated) data and fun facts/observations:
- Over 5,200,000 gold has been invested so far.
- All but three PCs have invested the minimum amount of 10,000 gold each.
- Only one person invested multiple times, but chose the same options each time.
- Only one person who wrote up a detailed proposal on the board actually invested gold!

Obviously this mechanic is designed to help ease gold inflation, hopefully by giving something interesting (and independent of mechanics like Dweomercraft) to spend it on. And despite my clickbait title, I do want to solicit some feedback! Is the 10k gold minimum too high? Are there other options that people are interested in, that would be worth tracking? Is the mechanic still too vague/undefined to spend money on? Maybe a lottery for all investors on first refusal for any new quarters/tax-free shops?

My general thought process on this: I'd rather more people give less gold, than less people give more. But even so, even if the majority of people end up investing for "day spa," I'm still going to add a flamethrower turret somewhere if some pyro invested 3 million in the "boil the ocean" option. (disclaimer: I'm unironically open to both flamethrower turrets and day spas, but won't be boiling the ocean.) Ultimately, all six options are ones I'm open to pursuing, but they're not exclusive.

I don't believe we've done something like this before, but given how many players have wanted to build something somewhere over the years, this seems like it might be useful to adapt elsewhere if the kinks can be worked out!

[CorsicanDoge]

I do have one question that helps decide on whether or not I want to invest as a district leader. Will the shops in the Outpost go to the district leader's treasury if they win the bid or will it go to the same bottomless hole the Hub and the Shipyard goes to? This has the potential to be a district I'd want to heckle other district leaders for.

Also I don't think 10k is too high since we're talking about construction on a district here. Scrounging up 10k isn't hard, but someone with not much money might just have their priority set up to buy equipment instead of a 'vote' for a district.

[Party in the forest at midnight]

Your pyro example is inspiring. If you track individual investors like that, if I had a character interested in the development of something who also had a lot of gold, I'd pour gobs of it into the system to influence its development in a specific way.

On a related note, I think a lot of players right now would dump a huge amount of gold into getting a few temporary merchant stalls in Sibayad. Would players be able to contact DMs to start this sort of transaction? Would the dev team be receptive to that?

[Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia]

I do have one question that helps decide on whether or not I want to invest as a district leader. Will the shops in the Outpost go to the district leader's treasury if they win the bid or will it go to the same bottomless hole the Hub and the Shipyard goes to? This has the potential to be a district I'd want to heckle other district leaders for.

The example you gave concerning shops is one that would correlate with with the Trade-focused option. But I have some ideas for (new and existing) mechanics, for all six options, that would make sure the Outpost relevant to district leaders. These ideas aren't set in stone yet as I'll be working with the team on this as ever, but I do plan to make every option an attractive one in terms of strategic interest just as they would be in flavor/setting aesthetic. I can't/won't go into details here, but suffice to say none of them will be fluff, and all of them should be worth bidding for, above and beyond the current benefits.

...

[...] If you track individual investors like that, if I had a character interested in the development of something who also had a lot of gold, I'd pour gobs of it into the system to influence its development in a specific way.

That's what the proposal board is for, really. This is a difficult one- player agency is great and all but the consistency of the setting, module balance, general fairness etc. really does (and always will) come first. A thousand players could donate a billion gold to boil the oceans (or do something more realistic that we just Don't Like), we just wouldn't do it. If we see a proposal on the board and if there's a lot of gold donated from the original author to whatever's closest, we'll take it into account. Hell, if it's got mass appeal and is an Obvious Good Idea we'll add it to the actual options.

We're definitely going to be aiming to see that the final results honestly reflect the investments made while still meshing naturally with the wider setting, but it also does require player buy-in in the first place to make that happen. All of this amounts to an imperfect system that requires the good faith of those involved to succeed, but hey, I'd like to try it! Especially if it sets precedents for elsewhere (maybe! more on that below).

On a related note, I think a lot of players right now would dump a huge amount of gold into getting a few temporary merchant stalls in Sibayad. Would players be able to contact DMs to start this sort of transaction? Would the dev team be receptive to that?

Right now, I've got no answers for you! I'm very big on having a dynamic module, world responding to the players, etc.... But it's also a lot of work and a lot of oversight even for small things right now, and there's a lot of other stuff that needs doing too. The Outpost project, as-is, is very much a pet project, and even then only as a component of a Larger Project. Speaking in larger scope about server design as a whole is Irongron's place, and about DM involvement/quests is for the DMs.

[CorsicanDoge]

The lack of any promises does make me hesitant to spend any money on it as opposed to just waiting and saving the money when the Outpost is up for bid after the fact. Also, consider the following: There's no reason to make sure the shops in the Outpost are actually quality if they don't help recoup on that investment.

Even such a cynical view of that kind of thing will generate role-play on its own and ensure any "law enforcement" of that particular district will have reason to go through stalls, check logs, and heckle merchants for their poor performance. This would also lead to people actually getting things in the shop that isn't 27 coal, a mithril dust for 1.5 mil, and a 2 stat magical glove.

But I do prefer the open-ended nature of the whole thing. I'll have to think of a proposal to draft up and I'll be sure to do my part!

[Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia]

Update since last post, for those who find this interesting (I sure do):

Approx. 11 million gold invested.
Approx. 20 characters have invested, some multiple times.
In many but not all cases, those characters have voted as representatives of a larger pool of characters, or on the behalf of a faction.

I've about finalized a much of the new design for the Outpost, but it'll be left open a while longer for last stragglers. There are still plenty of NPCs and a building that are still up in the air, to say nothing of flavor stuff, so if your characters would have a stake or an interest out there, I'm mostly interested in individual votes now more than sum totals.

This has been a pretty interesting experiment, though I think the location choice dampened involvement some, partly due to lack of concrete upfront explanations on my part!

Hoping to see any final input/suggestions ingame before I lock in design, but I'm cautiously optimistic to try this again at other sites after seeing turnout here (though not for a little while).

EDIT: Typo

[CorsicanDoge]

11 million gold on the outpost is pretty insane and I imagine a lot more gold would be melted on an actual district or settlement. A four year lease that could be lost at any moment was a hard sell to some people. For comparison, the Shay farmstead was at a bid of 11 mil when it first released and that had surface money involved.

[Diegovog]

I am very surprised it reached 11mil considering people who invested will get nothing. Unless the highest bidder gets a plaque, then I totally get it.

Maybe the highest bidder should get first lease?

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

I am very surprised it reached 11mil considering people who invested will get nothing. Unless the highest bidder gets a plaque, then I totally get it.

Maybe the highest bidder should get first lease?

It is a much more long term change where a faction owning a place disappears like chaffe in the wind. So I am not surprised at all.