RP Cookies: To add flavour to non-casters.

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Aradin
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Re: RP Cookies: To add flavour to non-casters.

Post by Aradin » Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:33 pm

I'll flesh out the training mode perk and suggest it. I originally came up with it as a space filler for the example, but the more I think about it the more I like it.

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Re: RP Cookies: To add flavour to non-casters.

Post by OleBlighty » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:11 pm

Aradin wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:33 pm
I'll flesh out the training mode perk and suggest it. I originally came up with it as a space filler for the example, but the more I think about it the more I like it.
I can't speak for every other player portraying FTR-based characters but in my experience this training rp already occurs quite often and without an XP drain. Epic level magic-users cast teleport, yoink, scrying, etc yet none of those cost any XP and are arguably more draining on someone's physical being (if Experience is a representation of the soul/what have you) than training for a few hours would be for a seasoned veteran, imho. However I do not want this to appear as grousing or a critique on current systems!

I won't beat a dead orc by reposting my own suggestions here, but just had to toss in my two coppers.

I totally respect where the idea came from even if I disagree, cheers!
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Re: RP Cookies: To add flavour to non-casters.

Post by Cybren » Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:36 am

Give fighters the ability to spend crafting points to do push-ups to get bonuses to skills/ability scores.

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Re: RP Cookies: To add flavour to non-casters.

Post by The GrumpyCat » Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:00 pm

Ok so I've had an idea... which is = to be fair - probably utterly awful.

None the less I will throw it out as an idea. So people can fall ovre and laugh at it raucusly.

What if three was a feat, avaiable to be taken if you have 28 levels of pure class fighter/monk/rogue, or other stritctly NONE caster class (so not rangers)

Banish Magic.

This ability, for some sort of hefty cost (maybe a massive chunk of xp, maybe gold, IDK) shuts down ALL magic in a zone for a while (how long? I don't know)

No buffs. No teleporting. No scrying. No yoinking. No summons. No direct spells. Nothing.

It would only be usable once per reset perhaps, signaling how powerful it was.

Yes yes, i've no idea how to justify it in lore either. I'm just trying to think of something fighter centric that none the less gives a boost that isn't just mechanical.
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Re: RP Cookies: To add flavour to non-casters.

Post by Cybren » Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:40 pm

That ability seems entirely mechanical in nature, rather than a tool whose main purpose is creating novel fictional positioning for rolepay. Additionally, locking it behind 28 class levels is odd, and doesn’t really mirror what casters get, whom can qualify for epic spell focus abilities as early as level 21 and have a number of non-epic spell choices that give some amount of “RP cookie” potential

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Garvik
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Re: RP Cookies: To add flavour to non-casters.

Post by Garvik » Sat Sep 26, 2020 4:58 pm

I really like the ideas thrown around in this thread and would like to add some of my own (in the spirit of keeping mechanical impact for combat low, QoL and RP potential high):

Monks
What all monks have in common is reaching peak states for phyiscal and mental fitness - mastering both body and mind. This could maybe be reflected in an ability that at, for example 10 monk levels, allows them to reset their rest/food/water meters (if negative) back to a number between 0% and 20% through meditation. At higher monk levels (20+) this becomes an area of effect ability where those present with the monk join in on the meditation to receive the same benefits. Other than having a tool to RP an aspect of the class, it would be a very nice QoL improvement for monks and certainly welcome in long and drawn out meetings. Cooldown? No idea, but something long.

Mundane overall feats
Most of those would be a good fit for fighters, some of those would be a good fit for swashbucklers and rogues as well. Depending on what class fantasy they cater to, adding these "mirrors" of the Spell Foci system to different mundane classes is an option:

Battlefield Forward Scout: The character prepares the best they can for an engagement through surveying the land, revealing the map of the zone they are currently in.
Battlefield Officer (requires Battlefield Forward Scout): Communication between troop elements is key. The character gains the ability to send an NPC messenger to dispense important information.
Battlefield Commander (requires Battlefield Officer): Effective troop movements are the key to victory. The character gains the ability to rally one comrade to their current location.

Sea Dog: The character is at home on the deck of a ship and intimately familiar with the operation of one. They cut down the travel time of a sea voyage by 20% simply by their presence on a ship. (non-stacking)
Maritime Navigator (requires Sea Dog): The character is apt at reading the stars for accurate navigation, increasing the chance to find rare locations (e.g. Gnitaheithr, Aurora) by 10% when scouring the seas. (non-stacking)
Call of the Depths (requires Maritime Navigator): The character cannot resist the call of the ocean for long. They are able to quickly travel to any location with a port or smuggler together with their crew. (basically a locations-restricted -teleport for the entire party)

Investigator: The character has a wide range of knowledge about all tools intended to cause harm. When investigating a destroyed fixture, corpse or bloodstain they gain information on what type of weapon was used.
Chief Investigator (requires Investigator): Being intricately familiar with how to maintain their own weapons, the character is able to inspect a PC and their carried arms to determine which have been used to kill another PC during the last ingame day through subtle marks remaining on the weapon like dried blood.
Master Investigator (requires Chief Investigator): The character misses no detail in a crime scene. From a fresh corpse or bloodstain they are able to follow the trail of clues left behind to the current location of the culprit. (basically -scry, but just revealing location while keeping PCs in it hidden).

Cutthroat: The character is familiar with who is and who isn't worth their time. Talking to NPCs through -investigate additionally reveals information on how rich the NPC judged the passing PCs to have been based on their gold carried at the time.
Escape Artist (requires Cutthroat): Whatever job needs doing, it is always good to have a plan for escape. The character is able to take a few moments to immediately exit an area through one of its main transitions at random.
Master of Shady Deals (requires Escape Artist): The character is apt at setting up meeting locations to be as discreet as possible, eliminating the chance of being spied upon. (basically, a shorter lasting -ward)

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Re: RP Cookies: To add flavour to non-casters.

Post by Nevrus » Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:23 pm

I love Garvik's take. Not sure it's worth three feats- maybe one initial feat and then the others are secret quest unlocked at 16 and 28 respectively.

But the sentiment is there!
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Re: RP Cookies: To add flavour to non-casters.

Post by WanderingPoet » Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:09 pm

Garvik wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 4:58 pm
Battlefield Forward Scout: The character prepares the best they can for an engagement through surveying the land, revealing the map of the zone they are currently in.
Battlefield Officer (requires Battlefield Forward Scout): Communication between troop elements is key. The character gains the ability to send an NPC messenger to dispense important information.
Battlefield Commander (requires Battlefield Officer): Effective troop movements are the key to victory. The character gains the ability to rally one comrade to their current location.
Love that idea!
Garvik wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 4:58 pm
Escape Artist (requires Cutthroat): Whatever job needs doing, it is always good to have a plan for escape. The character is able to take a few moments to immediately exit an area through one of its main transitions at random.
This would be unfortunately pretty broken and easy to abuse; it'd be better than a portal lens as if you haste you can't be caught after use. Especially if you leave no tracks. Maybe it automatically pops you out of subdue and/or jail, for those times you're caught and want to escape?

Own ideas (as feats?):
Greater -track - Like -track, but instead of just revealing what the NPC balance is, also reveals what PC races are currently in the area.

Greater Tracking - When reading tracks it marks repeated footprints (the same person entering/existing) and tells how long ago the tracks were set.

Cover Tracks - When in a party, all of the parties tracks are automatically removed as if they were rangers/druids/assassins.

Elemental Imbue Arrow - Imbue arrow of arcane archers now follows streams for element choice (Fire, cold, acid, sonic)

Trapmaster - Any disarmed trap is automatically rearmed for the trapmaster

Friendly Trapper - Traps placed by the trapper do not harm the trapper or allies
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Re: RP Cookies: To add flavour to non-casters.

Post by Baron Saturday » Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:22 pm

Play dead: Turns the character into their own corpse. Can be beaten by a spot roll or -investigate.
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Re: RP Cookies: To add flavour to non-casters.

Post by Polokko » Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:59 pm

Sorry Grumpy, but I'm going to have to come out and say I really don't like your idea. That's just a no counter-play and easy to do shut down on a high percentage of the server. A caster without magic is a very dead caster. It's bringing up memories of how bad I felt for a wonderful player who found themself in that very situation, what must be a little bit over a year ago. A blind TF being munched alive in a janky antimagic zone, ouch. ;(
That being said, I don't really play mundane characters so I don't know how many of them consider a fight against a caster a no counter-play, easy for the opposition to win, sort of fight, either way I don't think it's a positive thing. Even so, I think that's more of a build choice, or lack of building consideration (such as ignoring saves), which isn't really comparable to being able to shut down a large portion of the available classes.

The point of 28 levels, Cybren, is that it means the character can't dip for skill points, so there is some sacrifice to having such a strong power.

Back to the topic, I like what Garvik wrote. These caster cookies are locked behind a 3 feat investment each (or 2 for trans tp), though there are mechanical gains for taking them too (some more than others, yet people still take the feats. Could even argue that you get a little bit too much for taking some epic foci on Arelith, though scaling them back now would cause a right ruckus). However while 3 feats purely for QoL and RP purposes might not matter to a pure fighter, a lot of mundane classes are feat starved as is, and just couldn't manage that. There is also build choice for the casters, which someone else mentioned earlier in this thread, so attaching these RP cookies to a feat for them makes sense. A lot of feats are must haves for a melee character and there isn't too much deviation you can pick. If non-casters get these sort of cookies too I don't think it should be tied to feats.

I don't like the Battlefield feat suggestions though, or any suggestions about giving the ESF commands to other classes just for taking enough class levels in it. Wisps and lenses are things, the only real benefit is saving a little bit of money. It would feel bad for everyone who spends 6 (only counting transmutation and illusion here, I think they're both pretty useless mechanically except for a few builds) out of their 18/19 feats just so they can use what other people get for free.

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Re: RP Cookies: To add flavour to non-casters.

Post by Hazard » Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:05 pm

What if mundanes could climb and ride etc, because those are mundane activities.
Normally it would require investment, but if you are entirely mundane (28+ levels of no caster class), things like climbing and riding should be trivial to you, just like they are to most of us (because we are mundane humans irl).

Even children can climb a rope in gym, but I suppose if you spend all your time studying magic or connecting with spirits you might forgo basic mundane skills like that, but if you are purely a warrior it would be ridiculous that you can't do what mostly any in shape average person can do.

Maybe? I don't know either. Would be nice to give them fun toys too though, whatever they are.

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Re: RP Cookies: To add flavour to non-casters.

Post by Drogo Gyslain » Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:10 am

The GrumpyCat wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:00 pm
Ok so I've had an idea... which is = to be fair - probably utterly awful.

None the less I will throw it out as an idea. So people can fall ovre and laugh at it raucusly.

What if three was a feat, avaiable to be taken if you have 28 levels of pure class fighter/monk/rogue, or other stritctly NONE caster class (so not rangers)

Banish Magic.

This ability, for some sort of hefty cost (maybe a massive chunk of xp, maybe gold, IDK) shuts down ALL magic in a zone for a while (how long? I don't know)

No buffs. No teleporting. No scrying. No yoinking. No summons. No direct spells. Nothing.

It would only be usable once per reset perhaps, signaling how powerful it was.

Yes yes, i've no idea how to justify it in lore either. I'm just trying to think of something fighter centric that none the less gives a boost that isn't just mechanical.
I think I can justify some of it here: https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Dead-magic_zone

Dead Magic Zones were something established in Forgotten Realms lore, and were something that would be able to be done Ritualistically, specifically by Sharrans.

It would bel able to, and could work like Balance does for Druids. Balance effects the land, and right now, there IS a in game counterpart for [magic] being turned on in every area.

It wouldn't be hard to impliment in theory, a spell that turns off the [magic] in a zone, like warding or ward-teleport, except it worked on everything.

Maybe even make it an item, through the 100 years since the time of troubles ended, someone figured out how to make an orb or tiem that could project an anti-magic field, a mundane item stronger than the Anti-magic staff (example is in game of just such an item) that would perpetually end magical presence in an area.

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Re: RP Cookies: To add flavour to non-casters.

Post by Nevrus » Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:20 am

I just had a monk idea for RP boosting.

Delayed Quivering Palm, at level 28.

How it would work is, upon using it on another player, a dialogue pops up asking them if they want to accept it. This is to make it an RP tool and not a griefing tool.

At any time in the next in-game month, the monk can use a separate ability to bring up a menu of people they have used it on and attempt to kill them from any server- use the speedy code for cross-server effect. Maybe make it guaranteed, or normal QP DC + 5 to make it significant.

This requires a plan to make use of and a willing player so it cant just be used on the roads to rob people. Setting up ki bombs in people is how it works in PnP so why not give it a try?
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Re: RP Cookies: To add flavour to non-casters.

Post by Mythic » Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:44 am

Having some more Combat-Manouver Feats that more Mundane warrior-types can take, which casters are unable to take without certain full bab levels (Like spell focus but for melee's)

Things like "Charge / Bull Rush" Where a temporary movespeed bonus is gained, along with a single attack AB boost / Damage boost. Which upon hitting something is dispelled

Advanced Shield Training - Gain concealment vs ranged attacks whilst using a shield.

Spell Turning - Temporarily gain spell resistance equal to your base attack bonus + 10 and 1/4 character level (25 + 10 +5 for pure BaB classes. So 40 SR) for maybe 6-12 seconds.

Adrenaline Rush or "Field Binding" basically an on-cooldown heal like wholeness of body based off Constitution bonus
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Re: RP Cookies: To add flavour to non-casters.

Post by Barkoneus » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:28 pm

Seeing the newest "feats for STR builds" thread reminded me of a couple of ideas I had but never actually posted. Since they are more RP-flavor than PVP things, thought I would add them here instead.

Forced March (A)
Years of martial training mean the fighter can march at a quick pace even under the heaviest of loads
Movement penalty while encumbered is halved

Forced March (B)
Years of martial training mean the fighter can march at a faster pace than usual on roads
Movement speed while on a road is increased 20%
(Literally no idea if such a thing is possible in NWN, are road tiles identified as such in the module? I bet this isn't possible to implement)

Troop Movement
The experienced fighter is an expert at moving and coordinating groups of soldiers in preparation for battle
The movement speed increase while on a road is extended to the entire party

Combat Medic
Years of experience in the field mean the fighter is adept at first aid during battle
When using a Healing Kit during battle, the D20 is rolled twice and the larger of the two values is used
(Again no idea if this is possible with the engine. An alternative idea would be to allow Fighters to Take20 during combat).

Breach Door (A)
A locked or barricaded door is no impediment to the experienced fighter
Base damage bonus of (Fighter Level) when bashing doors open
(Would this also impact mining? Maybe its’ okay for them to be good at that too?)

Breach Door (B)
A locked or barricaded door is no impediment to the experienced fighter
Check of (fighter level) + (STR modifier) vs. (Door lock DC). Success means door is immediately bashed open
(This version is more all-or-nothing than version A, but might actually lead to some fun “OMG how did you do THAT” moments and RP from other party members)

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Re: RP Cookies: To add flavour to non-casters.

Post by Thalion » Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:22 am

So ive been thinking about fighters, what about high investment fighters being able to train people, in that they can activate a combat mode, or feat etc. that when someone fights with them they earn xp over time. perhaps something like 'for three turns anyone in combat with you earns xp' . something that scales with level and class, that only a mundane class could benefit, and the more skilled they are, the less they benefit.
i think that could add a lot of potential RP, though still one directional. but it would enable mundane classes to benefit uniquely . that being said, it could break the early game experience, but does allow an opportunity to integrate socially.

as for rogues, they fill so many role, that i feel they should incorporate that into their cookie. perhaps the ability to pick one of the other mundane cookies that other classes get. of course, this only works if multiple classes have some form of cookie.

I think it would be interesting to add cookies that dont mirror the epic spells that mages get, but rather operate in different ways entirely. and only a few, if any, should be class unique. that any mundane class could take a 'birdkeeper' feat, to send a messenger bird once a rest. or a 'surviavlist' feat that lets you plop down a temporary, basic fixture set of a tent, cookpot, and chair.

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