New Feats for Str Builds - Feedback Needed

[AstralUniverse]

Just put 15 str req on divine shield and might already. It would cause a lot of PCs being grandfathered for a time, but its worth it.

[Beard Master Flex]

What about adding some sort of out of combat regen that lasts for 1 turn to healing kits, maybe equal to the +rank of the healing kit.

It would buff everyone indirectly I suppose but would help Strength characters more given how many kits they blow through in an adventure.

[CNS]

Stolen from someone else but add a Feint style feat that gives a short flat foot (maybe half a round) based on an opposed strength check. Likely needs a cooldown.

Combine that with a tone down of the shotgun nature some str builds can achieve.

[Nidea Lynn]

As someone who is maining a STRanger, I must agree with the feedback that twisting the proposed feats into FE/wilderness areas, or simply combining them if they aren't granted for free, feel thematically appropriate. However, I also agree that if we are to replace a current feat with these new ones, a 50% chance to benefit from the vampiric boon is not very enticing. Perhaps a simpler option is at various strength intervals, new on-hit properties are applied to successful hits against FEs or while fighting in wilderness areas.

Thanks for looking into STRangers!

[Red_Wharf]

One month has passed since this thread was created and I wanted to ask Garrbear, in this time have you decided to tweak or change any of the feats before you release them into the PGCC or are they going to remain as they currently are?

[garrbear758]

One month has passed since this thread was created and I wanted to ask Garrbear, in this time have you decided to tweak or change any of the feats before you release them into the PGCC or are they going to remain as they currently are?

Yes. About half have changed or been removed and half have stayed. They probably won't be added to pgcc until after the holidays because I'm busy, so feel free to keep discussing as the feedback is valuable.

[Red_Wharf]

One month has passed since this thread was created and I wanted to ask Garrbear, in this time have you decided to tweak or change any of the feats before you release them into the PGCC or are they going to remain as they currently are?

Yes. About half have changed or been removed and half have stayed. They probably won't be added to pgcc until after the holidays because I'm busy, so feel free to keep discussing as the feedback is valuable.

Are you updating the main post with these new changes?

[garrbear758]

FIGHTER

Second Wind (Granted at level 2)
- Standard action - 10 minute cooldown - self only
- Grants fighter level * con mod hp.
Example 1: 20 fighter with 14 base con - 20*8 = 160 hp
Example 2: 26 fighter with 16 base con - 26 * 9 = 234 hp
Example 3: 6 fighter dip with 14 base con - 6*8 = 48 hp

Epic Second Wind (Fighter 21, Str 21)
-Second wind also removes minor debuffs (as lesser restoration) +2 ab, +2 damage, and regen equal to constitution modifier for 1 turn

Armor Mastery (Fighter 12, Con 15)
- Persistent effect
- While wearing heavy armor, a fighter gets 10% physical DI.

Honed Edge (Fighter 14, Str 17)
- When not using a temporary essence or poison, your weapon gains +3 physical damage.

Sucker punch (Fighter 18, Str 17)
- Standard action - touch attack - 2 minute cooldown
- Does 5 * Fighter level damage
- Blinds for 1 rounds on a failed fortitude save
- DC = Fighter level + Con Mod

Action Surge (Fighter 20, Str 25)
- Instant Action
- Grants 1 APR for 1 turn. 5 Turn cooldown

Precision Strikes (Fighter 16, Str 17)
- Toggleable combat stance. There will be a 1 turn cooldown between toggling to prevent cheese such as using it for knockdown then turning it off to burst damage.
- +5 AB, -1 Critical multiplier

Cavalier will stack with fighter levels for the scaling of these abilities and for meeting the prereqs, but not for the passive fighter bonuses that currently exist.

Ranger I'm not posting yet as it's still a work in progress.

[TimeAdept]

Just put 15 str req on divine shield and might already. It would cause a lot of PCs being grandfathered for a time, but its worth it.

This would just make the divine rogue gift STR instead of CON. I thought about this too, but it doesn't actually change too much. 16 or 17 I think would definitely do it though.

[jomonog]

I think precision strikes is potentially too strong as the trade off for more AB should be against damage not crit multiplier.

This is particularly so when fighting something crit immune or with e-dodge or otherwise very high AC which is effectively crit immune for the fighter anyway. In those cases, precision strike is pretty much just +5AB without any downside.

[Xerah]

I think precision strikes is potentially too strong as the trade off for more AB should be against damage not crit multiplier.

This is particularly so when fighting something crit immune or with e-dodge or otherwise very high AC which is effectively crit immune for the fighter anyway. In those cases, precision strike is pretty much just +5AB without any downside.

You've accurately described the entire point of the feat.

[AstralUniverse]

Just put 15 str req on divine shield and might already. It would cause a lot of PCs being grandfathered for a time, but its worth it.

This would just make the divine rogue gift STR instead of CON. I thought about this too, but it doesn't actually change too much. 16 or 17 I think would definitely do it though.

Well, I cant speak for others but on my Yuan-ti div rogue, with already 10 con, I would be screwed. And for reference, my cha and int are 16, str is currently 14. I think such a change would relegate this build only to drow, which is fine given there's so much synergy between what the race gives and what the build wants. Frankly, I cant think of a class that gets an unjust nerf in this, except maybe caster dex paladin. And it would go along way in toning down the damage on dex builds that brought us here.

EDIT: 16-17 str would entirely rule out any div dex builds. That's not my idea. I want to make choices. Being able to still pull of a dex div build but maybe without enough dex for e-dodge, or with only 12 int and lame con - that looks like interesting decision making to me.

The question is, from design perspective, is the goal to leave the dps on dexers as is and tone up the survivability on str-ers instead to compensate and whether or not we like the clear speed of dexers in pve and think its in a good point.

[Mattamue]

In those cases, precision strike is pretty much just +5AB without any downside.

Feels like this feat is specially for those cases of meme AC to make them hurt for not having CON. Can the build survive a 2x (or 3x) crit hit or two. If the build can't survive two 3x crits (~300 hp) then the build should probably die.

[jomonog]

You've accurately described the entire point of the feat.

Feels like this feat is specially for those cases of meme AC to make them hurt for not having CON. Can the build survive a 2x (or 3x) crit hit or two. If the build can't survive two 3x crits (~300 hp) then the build should probably die.

Yes, i understand thats the point I just think it is potentially too strong as theres no tactics involved in putting it on. Its literally a no brainer for the fighter to always activate against high ac or crit immune opponents with pretty much no counterplay.

[CNS]

You've accurately described the entire point of the feat.

Feels like this feat is specially for those cases of meme AC to make them hurt for not having CON. Can the build survive a 2x (or 3x) crit hit or two. If the build can't survive two 3x crits (~300 hp) then the build should probably die.

Yes, i understand thats the point I just think it is potentially too strong as theres no tactics involved in putting it on. Its literally a no brainer for the fighter to always activate against high ac or crit immune opponents with pretty much no counterplay.

Its not like selecting epic dodge when you level up requires much in the way of downsides or tactics?

[jomonog]

Its not like selecting epic dodge when you level up requires much in the way of downsides or tactics?

Yes but the requirements for epic dodge are a lot more onerous than this feat which is only fighter 16 and strength 17.

[garrbear758]

Its not like selecting epic dodge when you level up requires much in the way of downsides or tactics?

Yes but the requirements for epic dodge are a lot more onerous than this feat which is only fighter 16 and strength 17.

16 fighter in itself is a pretty steep requirement.

[Archnon]

Its not like selecting epic dodge when you level up requires much in the way of downsides or tactics?

Yes but the requirements for epic dodge are a lot more onerous than this feat which is only fighter 16 and strength 17.

16 fighter in itself is a pretty steep requirement.

Also, note that this is a combat stance, which means it won't stack with expertise, or improved expertise, right? Which means that while you are getting a +5 attack, you are more a sitting duck than normal without that AC boost which is really needed on strength builds. Epic dodge is in effect all the time.

[Cybren]

I'm assuming action surge doesn't stack with haste? Does it give a movement speed bonus? Or something else , or is it the idea that strength fighters don't need full blinding speed to get a full feats worth of value?

[AstralUniverse]

It would be total garbage if it doesnt stack with haste, because you want to be hasted at all times in any fight that bears a significant challenge anyway. Against bosses, or unlucky spawns with a lot of casters, or pvp, or simply if you have a caster with you that keeps you hasted, this feat would be entirely useless. Regardless, I still think it would be a lot more interesting if it was an instant action and the duration was 1 round, with a cooldown of 30 to 60 seconds, based on fighter lvl.

[garrbear758]

It will stack with haste. I do actually like the idea of making it shorter with a short cooldown, but I feel like that would encourage burst builds too much.

[Drowboy]

Speaking of burst, I guess the barb stuff is still cooking?

[Flower Power]

Offering the opposite feedback as other STR Rangers, as someone who plays a lot of STR Rangers, the Vamp. Regen feats have me salivating. They might not be the most optimal PvP options, but that's a lot of added sustain, which would help give STR Rangers parity with DEX rangers for tanking (who are virtually invincible in PvE, due to the sheer number of Blade Thirst vamp regens they can hoover up in the blink of an eye.)

Gib vamp regen pls.

[AstralUniverse]

It will stack with haste. I do actually like the idea of making it shorter with a short cooldown, but I feel like that would encourage burst builds too much.

Give it -2 ac, if it's short duration/cooldown and insta.

[Nidea Lynn]

Offering the opposite feedback as other STR Rangers, as someone who plays a lot of STR Rangers, the Vamp. Regen feats have me salivating. They might not be the most optimal PvP options, but that's a lot of added sustain, which would help give STR Rangers parity with DEX rangers for tanking (who are virtually invincible in PvE, due to the sheer number of Blade Thirst vamp regens they can hoover up in the blink of an eye.)

Gib vamp regen pls.

I agree that they do add helpful sustain, yet if the developers were to move into that direction, I'd rather it be implemented as a fixed regen (plus DR?) instead of per successful hit (which is dependent upon landing a strike).

But I do love vampiric effects. In fact, I'd be all the more happy if all three were included and scaled!