Maybe tone down the Random goblin patrol

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Hinty
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Maybe tone down the Random goblin patrol

Post by Hinty » Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:29 pm

Just passing by Darrowdeep and got a message that a goblin patrol is in the area. Saw two goblins, one archer, one warrior. Easy kill I think so I attack them.

Yeah, in a low level questing area, just one transition from a place with goblin enemies that are probably only CR 5 or 6, this particular warrior had 3apr at 21AB WITH Power Attack. They tore me apart in seconds.

Perhaps consider rebalancing this spawn to be nearer the level range of players in the area, or, if they are supposed to be a challenge, which I like the idea of, change them to something that is obviously more dangerous than enemies normally in that area. Unless you've played enough of Arelith to know and instantly recognise that that particular tribe of goblins (Broke Tooth) are much more dangerous than any others or you assume they are just as tough as all the other goblins in the area.

I mean, I assume that the Broke Tooth are a particularly high level enemy group. I don't recognise the name. As a level 10, who is only just barely within the level range of the quests in that area I didn't stand a chance.

Maybe if they were changed to Ogres, or some other creature that is a) not normally found nearby and b) normally more powerful than the enemies int he area it would be a good indication for new players that they might be dangerous.

Itikar
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Re: Maybe tone down the Random goblin patrol

Post by Itikar » Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:11 pm

I think that the argument for the nearby goblins is sound, but overall, I think it is a mistake to think that the small goblins are innocuous. They are not and the adventurer who makes that mistake should pay for it.

I would still think, though, that a slightly clearer warning in the message that these goblins are quite strong may be good here.

One of my alts had once an adventure where with some other low levels they had ended up in some caves with trolls and ettins. By mistake and with little to kill them, and well, they still managed to survive. Yet, on the way back, they found this patrol, they went to dispatch them because hey easy kill and the proud warrior who had vanquished many trolls and ettins against all odds, well, he was quickly done for against the gob.

For a solid week they made inside jokes about tiny goblins that were stronger than ogres, and every time they retold that story the goblins got smaller. Till they eventually resolved to advise keeping a magnifying glass at all times, to be ready for ambushes by very tiny goblins. :P

Gouge Away
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Re: Maybe tone down the Random goblin patrol

Post by Gouge Away » Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:27 pm

That's all fair when it comes to world exploration (don't ever just assume you can handle a new area or that creatures will be weak) but I think this is a case where the writ is sending characters to fight these really tough goblins who are likely not at a level to able to handle them. On the other hand it's a scouting writ IIRC so you can complete it if you go invisible or figure some other way to avoid conflict. It's probably worth looking at, I think that writ may be a little off level-wise if nothing else.

Hinty
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Re: Maybe tone down the Random goblin patrol

Post by Hinty » Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:58 pm

If they were spawned by a level 10 max Writ then something is very very very wrong.

This would make sense, first time I ever saw them, and first time i ever did that writ, but to spawn those goblins that look exactly like the goblins one map over that you can kill in one hit... that's not all fair. There should be SOME sort of indication that they are not just more of the same goblins that you've found all over the area, especially as the writ takes you though the bramble wood too so you've likely been fighting those weak goblins already as part of it. They should at the very least be labeled as "Elite" or have some other distinguishing factor, and they should be defeatable. Maybe hard to kill, maybe it'll take a whole bunch of healing supplies and consumables. But when just one of the pair can kill a 30 AC level 10 character in just one or two rounds. Thats a problem.

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Royal Blood
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Re: Maybe tone down the Random goblin patrol

Post by Royal Blood » Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:05 pm

I kind of agree with this. There's lots of weird places where the scaling doesn't quite make sense. Like you're just going about your business and then you get absolutely destroyed by a random mob. sometimes the generated boss mobs do not spawn with the colored yellow text or the right size so they're just abnormally powerful and you don't find out until you kill them and get the experience (or die)

I think reskinning the goblin patrols makes a lot of sense.

like, I think it's unfair to say you should not underestimate these enemies but the entire time you're busy killing enemies that look just the same and then asking the player to not underestimate them? that is compounded by the fact that you have to kill an army of goblins just to get down the stupid road. That seems backwards for sure when a spawn happens and you're supposed to credit it as a threat even though it looks like everything youve been killing before

I do like the idea of patrols and maybe stronger enemies coming through and making the wilderness more engaging and active.
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MissEvelyn
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Re: Maybe tone down the Random goblin patrol

Post by MissEvelyn » Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:25 pm

Personally, I'm a big fan of the roads being dangerous. Traveling alone, especially at night, should come at a high risk. This is one of those things that distinguishes Arelith from your generic MMO game.

I feel like the solution to the problem is in the game: Adapt and overcome.


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Royal Blood
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Re: Maybe tone down the Random goblin patrol

Post by Royal Blood » Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:39 pm

MissEvelyn wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:25 pm
Personally, I'm a big fan of the roads being dangerous. Traveling alone, especially at night, should come at a high risk. This is one of those things that distinguishes Arelith from your generic MMO game.

I feel like the solution to the problem is in the game: Adapt and overcome.
I think the OP isn't saying it ought not to be. Just that there mobs should be something you can identify. I can see the frustration in being baited in by a mob that looks like something you've killed 100 of then for whatever reason this one has hugely amplified stats.
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Gouge Away
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Re: Maybe tone down the Random goblin patrol

Post by Gouge Away » Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:48 pm

MissEvelyn wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:25 pm
Personally, I'm a big fan of the roads being dangerous. Traveling alone, especially at night, should come at a high risk. This is one of those things that distinguishes Arelith from your generic MMO game.

I feel like the solution to the problem is in the game: Adapt and overcome.
I'm on board with this in a general sense, sure, but again, the main problem is the level range of the writ that sends you to this specific area. This ought to be a 8-14 or so level writ considering the difficulty.

Exploring should be dangerous, that's part of the fun, but writs shouldn't be misleading gotchas. That just means they'll be deathtraps for newbies and established characters will avoid those writs entirely or figure the way to do the bare minimum to get around the spirit of the task.

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Re: Maybe tone down the Random goblin patrol

Post by Mattamue » Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:34 pm

Maybe bring back challenge rating for mobs?

Just as an example, I had my own growing pains in minmir falls. 2 screens away from a starting area there's level 15ish mobs. Didn't know they were 15 until after a wolf did a 20ab knock down.

Who is the audience for this post?


Nitro
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Re: Maybe tone down the Random goblin patrol

Post by Nitro » Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:36 pm

MissEvelyn wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:25 pm
Personally, I'm a big fan of the roads being dangerous. Traveling alone, especially at night, should come at a high risk. This is one of those things that distinguishes Arelith from your generic MMO game.

I feel like the solution to the problem is in the game: Adapt and overcome.
Yeah, I'll adapt right into the grave when a goblin hits me hard enough to take down level 15's in a level 5 area while almost indistinguishable from regular goblins.

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garrbear758
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Re: Maybe tone down the Random goblin patrol

Post by garrbear758 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:27 am

MissEvelyn wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:25 pm
Personally, I'm a big fan of the roads being dangerous. Traveling alone, especially at night, should come at a high risk. This is one of those things that distinguishes Arelith from your generic MMO game.

I feel like the solution to the problem is in the game: Adapt and overcome.
As a player I completely agree with this.
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Red_Wharf
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Re: Maybe tone down the Random goblin patrol

Post by Red_Wharf » Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:32 am

There's several random encounters near Darrowdeep ranging from a pack of wolves to large groups of hill giants and orcs, so I doubt too many low level characters will be dying to them because they are somewhat rare.

While still on this subject, the idea to distinguish the Broken Tooth goblins from the Bramble Woods goblins has merit. The goblins in Skal are blue, they have different textures, perhaps the Broken Tooth one could have their own new textures as well?

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Re: Maybe tone down the Random goblin patrol

Post by AstralUniverse » Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:39 am

I also attacked a spawn of those and got rekt, and left very confused as to why on Arelith goblins in the ancient mound's outside have this much ab, apr and damage. I felt silly becuase I did get a warning along the lines of "a gang of goblins is exploring the area" already hinting these guys are not from around. But maybe it should be more obvious, or just not /that/ strong. Also, I must have been lvl 10+. If these things spawn around Cordor's frontier towards darrowdeep it's kind of hilarious. I can only guess that these mobs' stats were ripped off the goblin town mobs, due to the level range but I could be wrong. Maybe mark them as the same clan as the ones there for starters.
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thetadecay
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Re: Maybe tone down the Random goblin patrol

Post by thetadecay » Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:38 pm

Agree completely with OP. “Adapting and overcoming” is fine when you overextend yourself or run into difficult enemies that are appropriate for the zone.

Getting an insane CR ramp in a newb zone isn’t fun. It feels cheap and deflating for the player. Especially when it looks, for the uninitiated, just like the other goblins that are appropriately difficult for the area.

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reighbo
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Re: Maybe tone down the Random goblin patrol

Post by reighbo » Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:07 pm

To gain sum comfort in a resolution possibility : IG solutions for IG problems.

Players are 100% welcomed, to find Spets' in-game, and, to RP-blaming her outright, over this matter.

... Juss sayin'

:mrgreen:

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-XXX-
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Re: Maybe tone down the Random goblin patrol

Post by -XXX- » Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:12 pm

"When bad things happen to good adventurers"

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Re: Maybe tone down the Random goblin patrol

Post by Kuma » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:02 am

-XXX- wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:12 pm
"When bad things happen to good adventurers"
, was and always has been a cheap excuse for poor game design

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Re: Maybe tone down the Random goblin patrol

Post by Irongron » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:51 am

Most such random spawns have a minimum level requirement in order to fire, the system simply wouldn't work otherwise.

Nitro
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Re: Maybe tone down the Random goblin patrol

Post by Nitro » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:58 am

The problem is that the area is traveled often by characters of all levels, and all it takes is one high levels triggering the spawn while running by in stealth/haste/invis to leave behind a spawn way too strong for the adventurers that regularly visit the area.

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Irongron
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Re: Maybe tone down the Random goblin patrol

Post by Irongron » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:29 pm

Nitro wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:58 am
The problem is that the area is traveled often by characters of all levels, and all it takes is one high levels triggering the spawn while running by in stealth/haste/invis to leave behind a spawn way too strong for the adventurers that regularly visit the area.
Without wanting to give too much away, this is also accounted for, and spawns left behind will leave of their own accord after a set timer.

Though I recall the spawns in question were among the first of that system to be added, and may not have the full functionality. I will review when I get the chance.

In the meantime I'd advise players to learn their goblin tribes on Arelith, as some are strong, and whether it is goblins, giants or dragons take those encounter warnings seriously- not all creatures are there to be killed, and sometimes even adventurers run away.

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reighbo
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Re: Maybe tone down the Random goblin patrol

Post by reighbo » Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:39 pm

In the meantime I'd advise players to learn their goblin tribes on Arelith
:shock:

ooooh my, my, :lol:

Fact is, could very well be a lot there, too learn.
as some are strong,
And again, Players are 100% welcomed, to find Spets' in-game, and, to RP-blaming her outright, over this matter, as well.

... Still juss sayin'

:mrgreen:

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Re: Maybe tone down the Random goblin patrol

Post by DM Starfish » Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:15 am

All these more powerful goblin encounters might be caused by players using a little known mechanic where you can drop certain resource items in certain areas to "reinforce" the local monster population. Maybe.
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andthenthatwasthat
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Re: Maybe tone down the Random goblin patrol

Post by andthenthatwasthat » Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:35 am

DM Starfish wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:15 am
All these more powerful goblin encounters might be caused by players using a little known mechanic where you can drop certain resource items in certain areas to "reinforce" the local monster population. Maybe.
THE WHAT?

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Re: Maybe tone down the Random goblin patrol

Post by MissEvelyn » Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:08 am

andthenthatwasthat wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:35 am
DM Starfish wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:15 am
All these more powerful goblin encounters might be caused by players using a little known mechanic where you can drop certain resource items in certain areas to "reinforce" the local monster population. Maybe.
THE WHAT?
I could see evil druids and rangers collaborating to do that. After all, what's more poetic justice than when the wild takes care of those damned polluting adventures. :twisted:


Nitro
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Re: Maybe tone down the Random goblin patrol

Post by Nitro » Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:26 am

That mechanic doesn't really work on an area as frequently culled as the bramble surroundings. All the low level adventurers going through constantly make resource dumps in the thousands disappear into status quo overnight.

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