Slave Background Should Be Reviewed Again

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

I hope you don't think I am trying to punish anyone trying to do something the right way with my suggestion, because that wasn't my intention at all.

The way I have heard it over the years, and I want to state that this is all second hand as I tend to ignore slaves in game all together because I personally don't want to get involved in a story that its easily solved by easily metagamed information, is that the vast majority take it for the perks. I don't mean everyone, and there are always going to be anecdotal accounts that comes along and contradicts a statement like that, but I mean 80%+.

Now if it's not that bad in reality, I have an open mind to that. I just hope those that think it isn't that bad are also looking outside their own personal experiences. But if it is that bad, it's not "punishing the many for the actions of the few", its removing something that is overwhelmingly abused at the cost of the handful of people's opportunity to play that niche thing. I realize that may still sound like punishment to some, but I see it as sacrificing something for the greater good personally.

There are also alternative solutions that would include less eliminating but involve more policing, like apping to continue your slave character post freedom, ect., but I know how unpopular that sort of thing is.

Anyways, I just wanted to clarify that nothing I say is intended to punish anyone. There are certain things that come up year after year, things that I see potential solutions for, and I can't help but offer said solutions to try and break the endless loop despite knowing by this point that it's probably not going to change anything. We all have our flaws I suppose, and that's one of mine.

[MissEvelyn]

I also don't think that it makes any sense to have to retire a slave broken free. Half the fun is what comes after and trying to rebuild your life and dealing with the traumas or using it to fuel a crusade against slavery. Former slaves create RP and story. There's still plenty of story to be told after they break free. It should be left up to the player if they want to retire their character after their slave arc or keep playing it.

I agree wholeheartedly, but I could also see people using the counter-argument that it relies entirely on the player of the escaped slave to roleplay all that in good faith. It's the blatant disregard of the traumas that an ex-slave should go through but evidently don't that often throws people off about slave RP.
Read: "I used to be a slave for the evil drow, but now I'm free, weeee! Let's go kill some drow! In the Underdark, the source of my trauma that I am suddenly cured from."

[D4wN]

I also don't think that it makes any sense to have to retire a slave broken free. Half the fun is what comes after and trying to rebuild your life and dealing with the traumas or using it to fuel a crusade against slavery. Former slaves create RP and story. There's still plenty of story to be told after they break free. It should be left up to the player if they want to retire their character after their slave arc or keep playing it.

I agree wholeheartedly, but I could also see people using the counter-argument that it relies entirely on the player of the escaped slave to roleplay all that in good faith. It's the blatant disregard of the traumas that an ex-slave should go through but evidently don't that often throws people off about slave RP.
Read: "I used to be a slave for the evil drow, but now I'm free, weeee! Let's go kill some drow! In the Underdark, the source of my trauma that I am suddenly cured from."

Definitely agree with that. I enjoyed RPing that trauma and working through that a lot myself. Thomas was scared of everything and everyone, standing in a corner and getting nervous in crowds. Fleeing from Andunorians he'd see etc. Took him a very long time to get his courage back. But I personally enjoy RPing weaknesses, I'm unsure many do because they have an image in their head their character needs to be flawless and perfect. Which is another topic of discussion entirely :3

[Waldo52]

I also don't think that it makes any sense to have to retire a slave broken free. Half the fun is what comes after and trying to rebuild your life and dealing with the traumas or using it to fuel a crusade against slavery. Former slaves create RP and story. There's still plenty of story to be told after they break free. It should be left up to the player if they want to retire their character after their slave arc or keep playing it.

I agree wholeheartedly, but I could also see people using the counter-argument that it relies entirely on the player of the escaped slave to roleplay all that in good faith. It's the blatant disregard of the traumas that an ex-slave should go through but evidently don't that often throws people off about slave RP.
Read: "I used to be a slave for the evil drow, but now I'm free, weeee! Let's go kill some drow! In the Underdark, the source of my trauma that I am suddenly cured from."

Definitely agree with that. I enjoyed RPing that trauma and working through that a lot myself. Thomas was scared of everything and everyone, standing in a corner and getting nervous in crowds. Fleeing from Andunorians he'd see etc. Took him a very long time to get his courage back. But I personally enjoy RPing weaknesses, I'm unsure many do because they have an image in their head their character needs to be flawless and perfect. Which is another topic of discussion entirely :3

Generally I agree.

I RP'd a slave, and I'm not sure I did it "right" in the eyes of everyone. But I loved the role playing opportunities that came with weeping and trembling at the sight of intimidating drow females and other people who told my character to shut up.

Still, this is a systemic issue and far from a slave only problem (which I think you were implying). I think the worst demographic here is award farmers, followed by low level good aligned hero narrative characters who offer villains three words of mindless defiance RP in general chat and then type a Kafka novel into the DM channel when things don't go their way.

Protagonist syndrome is a real thing in this community. Have you ever noticed how Mel Gibson basically never made a movie when he wasn't a heroic action hero Jesus figure? Have you seen what this guy is like in real life?

Slaves, heroes, commoners. Please learn to shake in your boots and be vulnerable. Maybe it'll make your character suck less. End of rant.

[The GrumpyCat]

I RP'd a slave, and I'm not sure I did it "right" in the eyes of everyone. But I loved the role playing opportunities that came with weeping and trembling at the sight of intimidating drow females and other people who told my character to shut up.

I find it darkly amusing that there seems to be no other class/concept/race where people are as absolutly determined to tell the players exactly how to roleplay.

'People who roleplay enslaved characters NEED to roleplay it like THIS!'
'But... what if the player doesn't want to?'
'Why the hell should they get a say in how to rp their character? They're rping a slave now! So they're MINE!'

Like, - I know this is a mad personal thought here and most people dissagree- but to a large degree people should just... rp it as they want to? And those who seem to rp it well (negotiating personal freedoms, rping fear, respect, obedience, brainwasying, rebellion, the usual themes) should be praised and given -recommends and higher rpbs and stuff - like with any other class/backgrounds? Like, there's a few mechanical things to try and enforce setting already, and I'm not against a few more I suppose here and there. And if we think there's a definate swing in one way, that's harmful to the server over all then fair enough. But like, at the same time... can't we respect that other players may want to play their own character? LIke - the fact that people are giving such varying and different opinions on how slavery should be done... almost suggests maybe it's being done right because people are doing it in so many different ways, if that makes sense?

[Amateur Hour]

People who want to do it "right" may benefit into doing a little research into two things: how people act after they escape abusive situations, and how enslaved people in 19th century North America felt after escaping the United States South. There's a huge variety, from deep-seated terror, to "I do not ever want to talk about this experience at all with anyone," to being filled with fiery determination to go back and help everyone else in similar situations, to being filled with righteous anger to make their abusers/enslavers pay. And sometimes, flipping rapidly among all the options because trauma is complicated and our brains are sometimes our worst enemies.

...and if you read the YouTube comments on any videos delving into these topics, you'll see just how realistic/common it is for people to say people handled their trauma "wrong".

So it's much harder to do it wrong than you probably think; the research is more to give you an idea of the wide world of options that exists out there.

[Waldo52]

I RP'd a slave, and I'm not sure I did it "right" in the eyes of everyone. But I loved the role playing opportunities that came with weeping and trembling at the sight of intimidating drow females and other people who told my character to shut up.

I find it darkly amusing that there seems to be no other class/concept/race where people are as absolutly determined to tell the players exactly how to roleplay.

'People who roleplay enslaved characters NEED to roleplay it like THIS!'

I wasn't telling people that they have to or should role play like this. The character was a mentally ill weirdo.

I was just trying to make a point about how many players think they must be a stoic hero/protagonist at all times but it can be rewarding to fail, be vulnerable and take the L from time to time, especially as a slave.

[MissEvelyn]

I RP'd a slave, and I'm not sure I did it "right" in the eyes of everyone. But I loved the role playing opportunities that came with weeping and trembling at the sight of intimidating drow females and other people who told my character to shut up.

I find it darkly amusing that there seems to be no other class/concept/race where people are as absolutly determined to tell the players exactly how to roleplay.

'People who roleplay enslaved characters NEED to roleplay it like THIS!'

I wasn't telling people that they have to or should role play like this. The character was a mentally ill weirdo.

I was just trying to make a point about how many players think they must be a stoic hero/protagonist at all times but it can be rewarding to fail, be vulnerable and take the L from time to time, especially as a slave.

I would argue that as a slave, you set yourself up for IC failure, constantly. That type of RP is not for everyone, and that is the point some of us are trying to make.

In other words, if you want to play someone who never falters, has no flaws, is constantly a heroic protagonist, then maybe Slave RP isn't for you Or is it the time for the reminder that no one is forced to play a Slave?

[The GrumpyCat]

I RP'd a slave, and I'm not sure I did it "right" in the eyes of everyone. But I loved the role playing opportunities that came with weeping and trembling at the sight of intimidating drow females and other people who told my character to shut up.

I find it darkly amusing that there seems to be no other class/concept/race where people are as absolutly determined to tell the players exactly how to roleplay.

'People who roleplay enslaved characters NEED to roleplay it like THIS!'

I wasn't telling people that they have to or should role play like this. The character was a mentally ill weirdo.

I was just trying to make a point about how many players think they must be a stoic hero/protagonist at all times but it can be rewarding to fail, be vulnerable and take the L from time to time, especially as a slave.

Oh no! No you misunderstand! Oh golly no!

I mean my point was actually 100% in AGREEMENT with you! <3

Your spot on point! I just wanted to really highlight the

I RP'd a slave, and I'm not sure I did it "right" in the eyes of everyone.

Because like, it's kinda sad you feel that way? That you feel so very judged? You shouldn't imo. There should be a little more tolerance on how people roleplay these things!

And I 100% agree with you about how rewarding it can be fail and take the loss, completely and utterly! I'm so sorry for the missunderstanding!

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

I find it darkly amusing that there seems to be no other class/concept/race where people are as absolutly determined to tell the players exactly how to roleplay.

I don't think this statement is close to true, since there's another thread that touches on special things not being roleplayed properly too going on right now. But I do want to touch on the rest of the sentiment in your post because I think there's some misunderstanding on what people are saying here.

It's not about beating people up for not being great roleplayers, it's about having a standard that everyone should be striving to achieve, because without that standard everyone gets comfortable doing whatever they want and never really strive to be better. And that's how you end up with a server that is 10% characters, 90% avatars of the player themselves in game. Just some examples:

Why would I play a paladin that questions the morality of his decisions when every other paladin is just trying to murder bash all their enemies and don't seem to face any consequence for doing so?

Why would I act like an elven life is sacred above all other life as an elf when every other elf seems ready to kill any other elf they disagree with?

Why would I not play a slave for the benefits knowing I will be free soon when everyone else seems to do it?

These are variations of real questions that I'm sure even the best roleplayers on this server have been faced with at one point in time or another in some form or another, and essentially boil down to "why would I chose what my character would do over what's best for me as the player when no one cares what choice I make anyways based on what others get away with." And that question has led to the deterioration of standards since I started playing here, and if I'm being honest when I started, I was already surprised at how low the standards are.

Now I say all this under the assumption that standards are a thing that that the server wants to maintain, and perhaps I have that wrong. Perhaps there has been a decision made among you guys as admins and dms that standards drive down numbers, and it's better to have this game mimic wow than be like a traditional nwn server, including arelith back in the day, has always been because it's better for player number stats. And I think that's a fine position to take, Gron owns this place he can do what he wants with it.

But it's the assumption that standards still matter that lead to posts that sound like people are picking on others rp.

And just as a side note, when I say maintaining standards, I don't mean expecting every player to be great or even good for that matter. Those players will evolve in time if the standards are in place, because those that can live up to them are setting a good example. But when the players that could live up to the standards but don't and instead do whatever they want, that's what the players who don't know any better will learn and mimic.

And that's 100% where arelith is with its player base right now.

[Lurking Shadow]

I think slavery as a PC should be removed from the server fully, but I been told why it is there and I understand it better now. I still think its a very odd thing to allow players to play.

[Waldo52]

I find it darkly amusing that there seems to be no other class/concept/race where people are as absolutly determined to tell the players exactly how to roleplay.

'People who roleplay enslaved characters NEED to roleplay it like THIS!'

I wasn't telling people that they have to or should role play like this. The character was a mentally ill weirdo.

I was just trying to make a point about how many players think they must be a stoic hero/protagonist at all times but it can be rewarding to fail, be vulnerable and take the L from time to time, especially as a slave.

Oh no! No you misunderstand! Oh golly no!

I mean my point was actually 100% in AGREEMENT with you! <3

Your spot on point! I just wanted to really highlight the

I RP'd a slave, and I'm not sure I did it "right" in the eyes of everyone.

Because like, it's kinda sad you feel that way? That you feel so very judged? You shouldn't imo. There should be a little more tolerance on how people roleplay these things!

And I 100% agree with you about how rewarding it can be fail and take the loss, completely and utterly! I'm so sorry for the missunderstanding!

Oh I understand now.

Yay! A DM likes me.