We need better rewards for grouping for dungeons

[Kythana]

LF2M RDI Addy grind, NO ANIMATORS

[Ruzuke]

LF2M RDI Addy grind, NO ANIMATORS

An incentive might be adding addy back to that dungeon for groups of 4.

[Mamma ama Warlock]

I would be devastated if any further measures to destroy soloing and make leveling in dungeons slower would be taken. This is a very personal case, but I am sure a lot people can relate: my gaming time is limited, and I would rather spend an hour quickly running through a few dungeons for whichever reason, and then invest time into building out relationships with characters in the place of my choosing. I'd rather team up for a higher level challenge, or go sailing, plot something with my friends, venture out to gather resources or craft instead of spending extra time in midpoints dungeons.

I can't emphasise it enough: I want to spend time doing something besides the mid level dungeons, especially considering the fact that finding a team and then working with them might make things even slower than soloing. And the hardest knock of a lot of recent nerfs actually affects the said level experience. Finding a group for doing writs is not always an option for many reasons.

So I sincerely hope that whatever decision is made to address that issue is a positive one, not a negative one that closes off cerain paths for players who want or need to take them.

I saw the ideas to make a random epic quest system to incentivize teaming up. Hell yeah, that sounds fun. Higher challenge, team work mandatory, good rewards. Put it on a cooldown of X times per weak. I'd love to have something like that.

[Biolab00]

I'll propose the introduction of group dungeons instead...similar like sailing that most definitely requires a group.
For example, xxx cannot enter beyond certain part of dungeon if xxx requirement is not met.
Not sure if it's possible to improve the current existing epic dungeon to that.

Certainly, we can keep the current epic dungeon as it is.
It's alright to have epic dungeon that is possible to solo
It's certainly great to have epic dungeon that certainly NEED a group to even complete.

The reason is because when there's baseline requirement for certain dungeon, it promotes the necessity for grouping and RP as well. Much like sailing when there's hard mechanic requirement for grouping.

Of course, the difficulty should scale accordingly because of hard requirement for group.

Just a suggestion.

[Arszenik]

Honestly, I might be in the minority here, but I feel like dungeons, especially end game ones, shouldnt be easy enough that people can just solo them.

At the end of the day this is an RP server, so the end goal is to have people interact with each other.
As a solo RPG, Arelith is pretty mid at best, if people are forced to look for a companion or two that will generate RP.

I personally dont do solo dungeons almost ever and I definitely dont grind them for money, because its just not particularly fun to me.

[Jencent]

It's certainly great to have epic dungeon that certainly NEED a group to even complete.

How OP mobs should be here? If... We can have a tank with 80_AC and 700HP AND EDR close to 20? How much HP they should have, if we can see 300+ DAMAGE on hit in some decent builds...

Like common mob HAVE to penetrate 80AC and be tough anough to fight against coockie cutters.

So here we have:
70AB. 50% chance to hit 80AC.
55 damage minimum on hit. To get through fatty tanky builds.
60+ AC to not be EZ to hit. Coz now average AB is 50+.
1200HP, just enough to not die in a first flurry.
All saves 30+.
Immunity to mind spell and few other free-cheap damage type of damage.
And also all caster will have maxiIGMS mixed with WoF mobs. And also bunch of AOE spell.

OFC we must HAVE warlocks with 60 touch AB and 90+ damage on hit. Some packs will have few warlocks in the stack.

Sounds epic enough for 30lvl group?

AH! And OFC you cant rest in this duneon and you cant get out of the dung without killing boss or be killed.

[The GrumpyCat]

I would be devastated if any further measures to destroy soloing and make leveling in dungeons slower would be taken. This is a very personal case, but I am sure a lot people can relate: my gaming time is limited, and I would rather spend an hour quickly running through a few dungeons for whichever reason, and then invest time into building out relationships with characters in the place of my choosing. I'd rather team up for a higher level challenge, or go sailing, plot something with my friends, venture out to gather resources or craft instead of spending extra time in midpoints dungeons.

I can't emphasise it enough: I want to spend time doing something besides the mid level dungeons, especially considering the fact that finding a team and then working with them might make things even slower than soloing. And the hardest knock of a lot of recent nerfs actually affects the said level experience. Finding a group for doing writs is not always an option for many reasons.

So I sincerely hope that whatever decision is made to address that issue is a positive one, not a negative one that closes off cerain paths for players who want or need to take them.

I saw the ideas to make a random epic quest system to incentivize teaming up. Hell yeah, that sounds fun. Higher challenge, team work mandatory, good rewards. Put it on a cooldown of X times per weak. I'd love to have something like that.

This is something I already have plans for, but as someone that solos much of th time, and often prefer to (mostly due to odd/limited play time) I definitely do not want to force people into it.

In the meantime Skal remains an excellent choice for those wishing to party for such trips, as do locations with a closely knit playerbase like Brogendenstein.

Also sailing of course, which very directly rewards (indeed often requires) party play.

The Big Guy himself says here he doesn't want to make low/mid level dungeons none-soloable.

In fact I've not seen ANYONE argue for that at all. I certainly am not.

I feel the argument here, the discussion, is very, very, very much focused around Epic Level/End Game dungeons.

[Jencent]

Hmmm... An epic dung with monsters made from #BUILD channel in discord? AHhaha

[Mamma ama Warlock]

The Big Guy himself says here he doesn't want to make low/mid level dungeons none-soloable.

In fact I've not seen ANYONE argue for that at all. I certainly am not.

I feel the argument here, the discussion, is very, very, very much focused around Epic Level/End Game dungeons.

I am happy to hear that, then. Thank you for pointing out the message, I've not seen it.

[Biolab00]

It's certainly great to have epic dungeon that certainly NEED a group to even complete.

How OP mobs should be here? If... We can have a tank with 80_AC and 700HP AND EDR close to 20? How much HP they should have, if we can see 300+ DAMAGE on hit in some decent builds...

Like common mob HAVE to penetrate 80AC and be tough anough to fight against coockie cutters.

So here we have:
70AB. 50% chance to hit 80AC.
55 damage minimum on hit. To get through fatty tanky builds.
60+ AC to not be EZ to hit. Coz now average AB is 50+.
1200HP, just enough to not die in a first flurry.
All saves 30+.
Immunity to mind spell and few other free-cheap damage type of damage.
And also all caster will have maxiIGMS mixed with WoF mobs. And also bunch of AOE spell.

OFC we must HAVE warlocks with 60 touch AB and 90+ damage on hit. Some packs will have few warlocks in the stack.

Sounds epic enough for 30lvl group?

AH! And OFC you cant rest in this duneon and you cant get out of the dung without killing boss or be killed.

A good example will be the PVE for Great Tree and The Cathedral in Lost Bastilles.
Of course, upscale the difficult of that for the Epic dungeon that is meant for groups.

I remembered when i first step foot in Great Tree several years ago, the usual thought of Mages must always be killed first or a group without Mages in PVE is too easy to beat gets completely overturned.

And to be honest, if there're PVE casters within an Epic Dungeon that can cast Mords and reliably dispel you from animal buff...that probably make most Epic dungeons non-soloable unless you're willing to burn plenty of consumables, Mundane or Casters.
Of course, it's not good to cheese by invisible walking past all the monsters in PVE dungeon which is clearly breaching the Rules

Edit : Random spawn of creatures via Rolls within Epic Dungeon can be very deadly.
For example, you are fighting a group that you've spotted. Somehow, you failed a roll on surrounding check for enemies and more enemies spawn WHILE you're fighting...
That's very punishing and worth a thought.

I believe that Developers and most veteran players can agree that the most punishing creatures to meet in PVE are those that can reliably breach and dispel you on -every- single encounter, as well as those that begins with damage shields and hasted

While i believe that Cave Slimes which used to have the damage shield are redundant because they belong to creatures in non epic dungeon, if we're looking at very punishing epic dungeons that certainly make soloing very difficult or perhaps even impossible, there're many options that the Developers can choose. But the baseline is whether the players can actually accept/take them.

For example, introducing the below -
1) PVE Monsters with Mords and have reliable dispels with breach ( Mentioned earlier )
2) PVE Monsters that begins with damage shield and hasted ( Mentioned earlier )
3) PVE Monsters that cast Word of Faith or comes with Fear Aura of DC 35-40
4) PVE Monsters that are able to be spawn on failed rolls via surrounding checks regardless if you're engaged in battle or not.

There're probably plenty more though.

Regarding the talk about AC...sure you can have 100 AC but...the sheer amount of rolling 1 when you're attacked by group of monsters that hit you for 30 to 60 damage per hit with 6APRs...can literally melt you down before you can do anything about it.

[Eyeliner]

I think the best and possibly only way to really challenge players is to add randomness to the equation. Right now if you beat a boss once you know what to do next time and even the most difficult dungeon, unless completely impossible, is going to be endlessly grindable.

But if you had to figure out how to take down a boss and their epic mobs all over again every time you enter, that changes the game completely. Maybe there are shifting pools of creatures who could be there and you don't know what you're in for... maybe a chaos themed dungeon could have mobs with randomized attacks and defenses... and so on.

[Algol]

I think dungeons of certain difficulty and above (perhaps endless mountain and harder) could have a new special type of chest in the end with unique loot, like how sailing has its exclusive loot. Currently the runic materials market is over saturated, making end rewards for such content where you need a party very underwhelming.

[Stonas]

A couple of thoughts from a player who hates to solo, but also hates being stuck because I can't solo nor find a group.

One of the main reasons mentioned that people solo is the lack of access to find others grouping in the same range. I feel we could make daily rotating "Hotspots" or some such, through writs or increased drops or some mechanic that helps to naturally funnel players to the same locations so they could link up. Could even have them set up by level range.

Other than that, I strongly agree we need some truly hardmode dungeons. This doesn't mean one's that need specific stats or such as was referenced above, but by having a proper mix of enemies. One's that unsummon, cast mords, etc. One's that require true d&d style strategizing and synergies. Can even take the route of placing different range of skill checks and class checks. Need animal empathy to get past this, need someone with climb to hit that, need an arcane caster to cast x spell here, and so on.

This would make areas that are truly unable to be soloed, and will provide great rp opportunities in preparing to tackle these great challenges.

All that said... Thank you thank you thank you for not looking to nerf soloing!

[Mamma ama Warlock]

A couple of thoughts from a player who hates to solo, but also hates being stuck because I can't solo nor find a group.

One of the main reasons mentioned that people solo is the lack of access to find others grouping in the same range. I feel we could make daily rotating "Hotspots" or some such, through writs or increased drops or some mechanic that helps to naturally funnel players to the same locations so they could link up. Could even have them set up by level range.

Other than that, I strongly agree we need some truly hardmode dungeons. This doesn't mean one's that need specific stats or such as was referenced above, but by having a proper mix of enemies. One's that unsummon, cast mords, etc. One's that require true d&d style strategizing and synergies. Can even take the route of placing different range of skill checks and class checks. Need animal empathy to get past this, need someone with climb to hit that, need an arcane caster to cast x spell here, and so on.

This would make areas that are truly unable to be soloed, and will provide great rp opportunities in preparing to tackle these great challenges.

All that said... Thank you thank you thank you for not looking to nerf soloing!

IRL 1-2 month-long hotspots: special zones with faction-driven goals and quest lines that require input from a certain (large) number of players over a period of time. 2-3 thematical factions, progress towards the goal in which is driven solely by player input. That is something you can easily see in an MMO, I am not sure it would be applicable to Arelith, but would surely be a nice thing to try even once in a while. Doesn't necessarily have to be land-based - can easily be naval, planar and whatever else comes to mind. Like a semi-automated DM quest that turns on a few times a year to generate some movement and conflict.