Forums Seem De-Prioritized

[perseid]

So there was a particular instance that made me think about this today but I don't want that to be the focus so instead I'm going to speak generally since it's part of a larger trend I've noticed overtime. The gist though is that the forums don't seem like they're actually a good place for feedback, queries, or bug reports from a user perspective. We're told to use them, the Developer channel of the official discord occasionally has someone post something to the extent of "If you have a bug report use the forums", but the increasing reality I've been seeing is that the best way to start a dialogue (for feedback), query a staff member, or even submit a bug report is just to bring it up in the official discord channel at the right time. And sure the "official policy" is to steer people towards the forums, such as in the Dev channel example I gave, but the lived reality is that this just means people submit the equivalent of bug reports in General or the Character-Build-Advice channel where it has a reasonable chance of being noticed by staff anyway and where staff are fairly open to pings.

It just seems weird that we're holding to the policy of pushing players towards the forums when I know in my case I have bug reports I submitted a year ago via the forums that are still standing. Meanwhile issues I bring up during active hours for devs in the official discord get rapid attention even though it's the supposed wrong place for such feedback. I think at some point we should really be considering the role the forums are intended to be playing in the relationship between players and staff and whether the forums can actually be defended as accomplishing that role or if they're just sort of a fallback secondary option which is what they increasingly seem like they're becoming.

[Kroatius]

We use the forum to track the record, Discord is not a good place for such, it can easily float away because of the massive amounts of messages by people

[perseid]

We use the forum to track the record, Discord is not a good place for such, it can easily float away because of the massive amounts of messages by people

So the discord is considered a mainstream channel for things like bug reports and queries then if we think it'll gain visibility? Because I acknowledged that we're generally pushed towards the forums but it seems like a waste of time to go through the effort if faster and better results can be gained on the discord server which has rapidly become the case from my perspective.

[Shadowy Reality]

The forums are better for structured discussions. You don't have a bunch of unrelated messages in between.

Discord is great if you have a quick question about certain things, or if you are unsure if something is a bug, before posting on the forums..

You will see that many of the feedback discussions or ideas that often start on Discord, eventually make their way to this Feedback subforum so they can be discussed in a more structured way.

[perseid]

The forums are better for structured discussions. You don't have a bunch of unrelated messages in between.

Discord is great if you have a quick question about certain things, or if you are unsure if something is a bug, before posting on the forums..

You will see that many of the feedback discussions or ideas that often start on Discord, eventually make their way to this Feedback subforum so they can be discussed in a more structured way.

This doesn't really negate my point though that the forums have essentially become second class to the discord. Why submit bug reports here if they're going to hang for a year for example? That's not different than just being forgotten on the discord and the discord would have taken less time to submit the information through. It just seems like from a user perspective there isn't really much of a benefit to using the forums. In your other example on feedback for example, why submit forum feedback threads when I could just discuss a matter on the discord with a dev who'll then take it to the dm team where it'll have heightened visibility compared to other matters?

My point isn't that I don't understand why the forums are theoretically better. My point is that as a player the reality that plays out is that you may as well be using the discord for the things people say the forum is supposedly better with regard to.

[Security_Blanket]

My point isn't that I don't understand why the forums are theoretically better. My point is that as a player the reality that plays out is that you may as well be using the discord for the things people say the forum is supposedly better with regard to.

We use the forum to track the record, Discord is not a good place for such, it can easily float away because of the massive amounts of messages by people

[Spriggan Bride]

This doesn't really negate my point though that the forums have essentially become second class to the discord. Why submit bug reports here if they're going to hang for a year for example? That's not different than just being forgotten on the discord and the discord would have taken less time to submit the information through. It just seems like from a user perspective there isn't really much of a benefit to using the forums. In your other example on feedback for example, why submit forum feedback threads when I could just discuss a matter on the discord with a dev who'll then take it to the dm team where it'll have heightened visibility compared to other matters?

I'm pretty sure old reports are easier to find here than Discord where they'd be quickly lost. Some bugs just aren't a priority or the person who needs to fix them doesn't have time. Lingering a year isn't the problem of the forum itself, they're likely seen but not acted on.

As a place for conversation about the game I lean towards Discord more than ever, because it just gets really negative here. Part of that is the nature of the systems... Discord is conversational with shorter back and forth replies where on the forums people tend to over-write in paragraphs that get preachy like this one I'm writing right now.

[Rubricae]

If you have pending bug reports that haven't been addressed, you're allowed to bump them until the are resolved.
I encourage players to be persistent in that.

Beyond that I'll merely echo the previous statements and the one I said in discord earlier, that it's easier to keep track of the reports here as opposed to free floating messages. Especially if you need help and no one that's able to is around at the time. Or your message gets drowned out by a thousand other conversations going on.

see kuma it's not white

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

Also the more immediate discord response only works with certain devs working with certain system. OFTEN ONES IN PROGRESS/RECENT DEVELOPMENT. You may notice that developmetn chat on discord even clarifies this nicely

"Discussion and feedback on current development or planned development. Please be mindful of tone and all opinions and ideas. This is not a thread to post bugs or make new content suggestions, please post them on the forums in their respective areas."

The live convo on discord often works when it is a live active dev on there, but if it is a bug outside their scope of current work.. then it probably won't get touched or recognizes/addressed unless you post it on here.

[In Sorrow We Trust]

The forums are better for structured discussions. You don't have a bunch of unrelated messages in between.

Discord is great if you have a quick question about certain things, or if you are unsure if something is a bug, before posting on the forums..

You will see that many of the feedback discussions or ideas that often start on Discord, eventually make their way to this Feedback subforum so they can be discussed in a more structured way.

This doesn't really negate my point though that the forums have essentially become second class to the discord. Why submit bug reports here if they're going to hang for a year for example? That's not different than just being forgotten on the discord and the discord would have taken less time to submit the information through. It just seems like from a user perspective there isn't really much of a benefit to using the forums. In your other example on feedback for example, why submit forum feedback threads when I could just discuss a matter on the discord with a dev who'll then take it to the dm team where it'll have heightened visibility compared to other matters?

My point isn't that I don't understand why the forums are theoretically better. My point is that as a player the reality that plays out is that you may as well be using the discord for the things people say the forum is supposedly better with regard to.

that doesn't mean the forums are being ignored

that just means people are busy, or that no one has stepped up to work on xyz, or that xyz needs discussion

when we open the suggestion forums or even just see another feedback thread made, there's often hundred of posts in the first day. no one has time to read any of that, but if it was in discord, it would be entirely up to me to keep track of conversations amidst everything else I'm trying to do, and that just isn't feasible. to the point that I tell people not to send me feedback by discord. I will absolutely forget.

but the forums serves as a nice notebook by contrast where I can look back and discover things that were discussed.... when I have time. that being the key phrase here.

I think I speak for others in this as well.

[Iceborn]

Keep also in mind that while you might not get an answer, it doesn't mean it goes unseen.
There's a ton of bugfixes that are too small to bother documenting or gracing with a thoughtfully written answer - as for that, it falls to the individual nature of each dev. Some people can write code as well as they can write a massive forum post explaining what changed, and some others are forum shy, forgetful, or simply don't think it's worth the time to notify every fix they push when they have other 35 things to deal with in their platter.

Nothing is ever as simple as it seems.

I know I pay a lot more mind to the forum than the discord. You can still ping me if you want my immediate attention on something, though.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

I still can't find where these monk changes are listed