Underdark or Surface mapping philosophy

[I_Am_King_Midas]

Hey everyone!
In general, the surface map will pin transitions for players and show them a few more locations on their maps. The Underdark map often doesn't show any transitions and encourages players to find these on their own. I don't think either is right or wrong but thought it could be interesting to see which style players enjoyed more.

Midas

[Emotionaloverload]

It has never adequately been explained to me why the UD maps lack pins but I much prefer the surface version. While I do have 80% of all surface maps memorized strictly due to time played, it was immensely helpful at the start and it is yet another thing (personally) about the Underdark to be intimidated about.



-S

[magistrasa]

I feel like it's way more immersive to not know where you're going, where this path leads that you don't know very well. I justify the ability to press M in-game and know all the waypoints as there being an actual, physical map at hand - but even then, I think it's much more sensible to let people get lost every now and again. I like that about the UD, and I was amazed when I crawled out of my hole and looked at the map and realized, "Wow, no wonder these guys hate the Underdark, I bet it's a real inconvenience compared to this."

[Sartain]

I love being able to actually get lost in the Underdark. Hopefully it'll last me a while longer before I end up having it all memorized

[Drowble Oh Seven]

I much prefer the surface method of pinning transitions. I tend to have long gaps between when I can play my characters, and it's a nuisance to have completely forgotten how to get around - as well as being diabolical for new players. I once spent three hours trying to find the way to an area (after getting directions that it was north of some other area), only to find I'd walked passed it a dozen times and not realised it was a transition.

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

The immersion of not knowing your way is fine, until you realize that the game provides you with a mechanic to add map pins to your map... that never, ever save, no matter what.

If you could save map pins locally on a server vault, I'd be all for immersion, but until the devs have time to make and implement a map system that allows players to create their own pins, I'd prefer all major settlement points that aren't of "shady, backdoor repute" to be marked - players can easily have the immersion of not knowing where they're going by not playing with the maps in the first place.

[-XXX-]

You people are actually still using the map?!

[Durvayas]

I actually like how you can get lost in the underdark. Mapping the underdark is virtually impossible, even in the lore, and I don't really see any good reason not to reinforce being able to easily get lost by mechanically giving people an omnicient map.

People with characters that spend a lot of time in the underdark know their way around easily, its their home turf.
People who don't have characters in the dark a lot should not, in my opinion, be able to meta their way around the terrain with a map their character would not have. I feel its better for immersion that the mapping philosophy benefits the locals and sticks to the lore.

[ActionReplay]

This is interesting to see and read what people think about this.

This is actually something Irongron and I are in disagreement. He does most of the surface areas while I do most of the UD areas and I tend to avoid pinning exterior wilderness unless it's close or inside Hub areas. I like it that way, especially for the Underdark.

This is a design decision on my part while Irongron tend to pin more for his surface areas.

[garrbear758]

I like that UD and surface are different. Y'all should keep it that way.

[Sintarius]

A good in between is always good, when finding some hidden place, it is always a little boost to do more exploration.
some hidden places i would always applaud!

[Thalion]

I really like the uncertainty of the UD, i have spent hours and hours just exploring, even finding transitions that are not marked on the map, i felt like a resident on the surface, in the UD i feel like im braving the unknown, and i am often rewarded for going off the normal paths.

[CorsicanDoge]

UD is super easy to navigate once you accliminate to it and it makes sense for that setting in particular because there's next to no roads or signposts and it's a sprawling labriynth of caves. A surface player that's never been there should probably feel pretty lost until they learn the layout and a newbie UD player will easily learn it just RPing with the denizens of Andunor.

The people that like UD tend to really like UD and vice versa. I don't think there's really a right answer and there's enough people for a surface and UD.

[ReverentBlade]

I like map pins. I have poor eyesight, plus often time floor transitions just...fail to show up with tab or mouseover on my game for whatever reason (climbing-related ones especially). I think it should be standard practice for all transitions to be pinned, full-stop, for the sake of accessibility if nothing else. I also think the use of micro or invisible transitions is a bit of a dick move.

[Skibbles]

I had no idea this was a poll when I made the suggestion yesterday. I also had no idea that it was UD only.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=31117

I'm of both minds. For accessibility like ReverentBlade puts it - a lot of UD writs reference places quite close to Andunor that aren't on the map, and even after years of UD play sometimes I end up running in circles trying to remember where an obvious place was I visited just last week. Ironically the map reveal ranger perk can sometime makes navigation harder because you can't follow the trail of explored area.

Exploring super deep and rarely tread places though - that's also a big treat (and if you haven't made a ranger to just run around and see the world you totally should). Secret transitions to little coves that have nothing more than just the little area are very satisfying to come across, and many untread areas are really just magnificent.

I'd vote for a balance: the further you go from civilization the less pins you get, making most writs and the potential new player experience generally tolerable (for example none of it is consistent so you can do ten writs with locations you can find and then take one or two where there's so little aid you might conclude its a bug/oversight instead of a 'feature').

[-XXX-]

Honestly, I'd have really preferred to have all default pins removed and have player made pins persist.

[ReverentBlade]

A bit of a tangential pet peeve, but I feel it should be standard practice for a floor transition to transition to a way point on the far side, that is also a map pin. And this waypoint should be just slightly off of the transition going the other way. The number of transitions that put you on top of another transition so that WASD movement just sends you right back to where you were, drives my developer OCD absolutely mad.

[chris a gogo]

It's a game and I much prefer to have map pins to help me at a glance remember where my characters has to go.

Removal of map pins means your using OOC knowledge gained over various characters playing in that area to know the locations.

With map pins your character with it's godlike intelligence can remember at a glance which path leads to where without needing to remember it OOC.

Thats my personal P.O.V. on it.

[DangerDolphin]

Gotta agree with chris, lack of map pins also screws over new players (Note: Players, not Characters)

I also think the use of micro or invisible transitions is a bit of a dick move.

I think they're kinda cool, but agree it should be based on the character's search (At which point it can be obviously highlighted) and not the player's memory. Again another kind of thing where OOC knowledge is a big benefit.

[Anira]

For us older players, the use the persistent personal map pins would be a boon. I can't tell you how many senior moments I've had and I play a ranger. It's such a pain to have to repin all of my pins and remember what those pins were.