Arelith impressions.

[satan]

Ok. To start, I'm an older guy in my fourties, long time gamer and pen and paper player.

NWN was always a favourite of mine, always listed in my top 5 RPGs, a true classic. I wasn't even aware of online play for it back then, so I was quite I intrigued when(after downloading the EE on sale out of a sense of nostalgia) I found there to be an active community in 2019.

Like most, I would imagine, I tried several different servers, bouncing off the ones that require you to download extra files manually, ending up on Arelith.

Now, nearly two months in, here are my impressions.

The mechanics:

Amazing. The added classes and bevy of additional game mechanics to support things such as factions and the near endless list of little things built in to improve immersion and gameplay really add a lot to the game. Love what you did with the warlock class.

Hats off to the devs, first rate.

I also really appreciate the 'server wide meetings'. It shows your playerbase you care, which goes a long way.

The community: All RP, all the time. At times I feel as though I'm immersed in a movie, friends, enemies, intrigue, politics, all generally well played out. Even those with no interest in RP at least make an effort, and griefers and trolls are almost a non issue. All of this is a breath of fresh air if you are accustomed to MMOs such as Neverwinter or DnD online. First rate community.

The world:

Arelith is amazing. I can't imagine how much time and patience went into building all those zones and putting them together in a way that makes sense. I like how different areas of the world give different sorts of vibes, it really helps for RP diversity (compare say, the feel of guldorand RP compared to the hub, for instance)

Noob friendly?

This is where Arelith needs work. The only real source of info is the wiki, which is quite outdated, and you pretty much need to know where to look and specifically what you are looking for. The community helps a lot for this. The DM team (mods) , though I'm sure they are kept very busy, are quite aloof and hard to get ahold of, and often expect you to already have an intimate years deep knowledge of Arelith mechanics before they will deal with you at all. This is nothing against the DMs persay, but it's obvious they need a bigger team. RPR increases are pretty much a unicorn, and there's a lot of cool stuff locked behind it.

All in all, this is what a new player sees when they join Arelith.

[DM Axis]

I have been working on a potential solution to helping introduce new players to 'Everything Arelith'.
: )

[The Rambling Midget]

Noob friendly?

This is where Arelith needs work. The only real source of info is the wiki, which is quite outdated, and you pretty much need to know where to look and specifically what you are looking for. The community helps a lot for this. The DM team (mods) , though I'm sure they are kept very busy, are quite aloof and hard to get ahold of, and often expect you to already have an intimate years deep knowledge of Arelith mechanics before they will deal with you at all. This is nothing against the DMs persay, but it's obvious they need a bigger team. RPR increases are pretty much a unicorn, and there's a lot of cool stuff locked behind it.

All in all, this is what a new player sees when they join Arelith.

What aspects of Arelith did you find most difficult to learn? It's hard to judge these things when you've been here for over a decade. Some are intentionally difficult, like the location of certain resources, but if you're getting stumped by basic systems, that's not good.

[The GrumpyCat]

Some great feedback here, really appreciate it. The only part of it that confuses me a little is this bit:

RPR increases are pretty much a unicorn, and there's a lot of cool stuff locked behind it.

Ok so yeah, maybe we should do more to raise rprs, especial 10's to 20's for sure. You may have the right of it there.

But that said actually very little is now locked behind RPR. The only thing I can think of off hand is The Assassin token, Being a Pail Master, and Red Dragon Deciple (if you are a Kobold) which requires an RPR of 20. I can't think of anything else that hangs off your rpr rating now.


Unless I'm being a big silly and forgetting something?

[l33tfragiletings]

Noob friendly?

This is where Arelith needs work. The only real source of info is the wiki, which is quite outdated, and you pretty much need to know where to look and specifically what you are looking for. The community helps a lot for this. The DM team (mods) , though I'm sure they are kept very busy, are quite aloof and hard to get ahold of, and often expect you to already have an intimate years deep knowledge of Arelith mechanics before they will deal with you at all. This is nothing against the DMs persay, but it's obvious they need a bigger team. RPR increases are pretty much a unicorn, and there's a lot of cool stuff locked behind it.

All in all, this is what a new player sees when they join Arelith.

It'd be nice if there was a tutorial on how things worked. I remember being so lost and confused when first entering Arelith, I definitely think if this can be improved it'll lessen the learning curve.

[Dagonlives]

I can agree with the RPR thing. While I suspect there is a detailed process and notes, it's hard to actually know what defines qualifications for high RPR. I only got mine increased by hanging around very prominent, very visible players, rather then what I thought was excellent roleplay.

That said, this strikes me as a logistical problem that is hard to solve without more eyes in the sky. Visibility is always going to be the most important metric for DMs looking to reward players. Hard to reward someone who isn't noticed.

[Irongron]

While I'm not sure that there isn't some irony in receiving some positive feedback from 'Satan' (given events this last week), the feedback is appreciated. I'll just pick upon one point:

Noob friendly?

This is where Arelith needs work. The only real source of info is the wiki, which is quite outdated, and you pretty much need to know where to look and specifically what you are looking for.

From the development side we're gearing up to help with this soon, as our first limited Mod will soon be available to download when joining the server. This is primarily intended to present the 'correct' information for class, race and spell/feat choices so players will need to rely less upon the wiki in future.

We also introduced a 'recommend' feature not long back so that higher RPR players can help us get those increases out to the others, though it is, and always has been, an imperfect system (neverthless I prefer it over the alternatives)

[satan]

What aspects of Arelith did you find most difficult to learn? It's hard to judge these things when you've been here for over a decade. Some are intentionally difficult, like the location of certain resources, but if you're getting stumped by basic systems, that's not good.

The basic systems mostly. If you are used to vanilla nwn and start playing this, there's a lot of stuff that's just 'there' and can be easy to overlook. I think a skippable new player tutorial module could be a good thing. Just to lay out the basics.

It's all fine once you are used to it, but it can all get a bit convoluted for new people

[satan]

Some great feedback here, really appreciate it. The only part of it that confuses me a little is this bit:

RPR increases are pretty much a unicorn, and there's a lot of cool stuff locked behind it.

Ok so yeah, maybe we should do more to raise rprs, especial 10's to 20's for sure. You may have the right of it there.

But that said actually very little is now locked behind RPR. The only thing I can think of off hand is The Assassin token, Being a Pail Master, and Red Dragon Deciple (if you are a Kobold) which requires an RPR of 20. I can't think of anything else that hangs off your rpr rating now.


Unless I'm being a big silly and forgetting something?

I tried for a good while to get the assassin class unlocked. I could never get a response.

I play very RP heavy, I even keep spreadsheets for my characters backgrounds (yes, I'm a nerd), interact with all walks of life, and two separate people have told me I've been 'recommended', but rpr has never moved.

Now, I'm not really complaining as I don't really care about 10 extra experience every 6 minutes, but I think I'm an example of just how much of a unicorn rpr raises are.

[Akenophis]

I'm fairly new player as well and I kind of share Satan's feeling. My view is that the problem is inherent to Arelith's goodness: it's so feature and content rich (mechanics, history, number of places).

Years ago I used to play on a different server and there are two things that were really helpful:

Tutorial at creation: Any new character would be proposed the tutorial. Veteran players would of course skip it but new players had the opportunity to go through a series of 5 to 10 rooms with NPCs explaining a bit what's going on in this world. The NPCs were speaking OOC but it could be made IC for more RP fun.

Godfather system: System was simple. On one side veteran players were volunteering to become godfather. On the other side new players would be offered to have one (DM would usually shoot "We have a new player, who wants to be godfather"). The relationship between the godfather and the new player was completely OOC and just aiming at helping the newborn get started with the world. This system had the merit to alleviate the load on the DMs and make the new players not feel alone.

One thing I'd like to point out is that Skal really helped me get into the game. It's so condensed compared to Arelith that you get used to the map and the community very quickly - it's really comfortable to start. Not sure why the mention "recommended for new players" was removed but....I followed that recommendation and didn't regret it. I would have started on Arelith directly it would have been more difficult I believe.

Last thing which was a bit difficult to understand at first was "what's happening in the world". Following IC stories is not always easy (even more from Skal) because everything must happen in game (boards, IC communication). I know the rule is "no RP on the forums" but having some sort of Weekly Digest with head titles only (with no content or IC details) would maybe help some players understand when and where things are happening. Just to help occasional players focus on some RP areas. At the moment I believe the closest to this would be the calendar channel on Discord.

Hope the feedback helps!

[The GrumpyCat]

Some great feedback here, really appreciate it. The only part of it that confuses me a little is this bit:

RPR increases are pretty much a unicorn, and there's a lot of cool stuff locked behind it.

Ok so yeah, maybe we should do more to raise rprs, especial 10's to 20's for sure. You may have the right of it there.

But that said actually very little is now locked behind RPR. The only thing I can think of off hand is The Assassin token, Being a Pail Master, and Red Dragon Deciple (if you are a Kobold) which requires an RPR of 20. I can't think of anything else that hangs off your rpr rating now.


Unless I'm being a big silly and forgetting something?

I tried for a good while to get the assassin class unlocked. I could never get a response.

I play very RP heavy, I even keep spreadsheets for my characters backgrounds (yes, I'm a nerd), interact with all walks of life, and two separate people have told me I've been 'recommended', but rpr has never moved.

Now, I'm not really complaining as I don't really care about 10 extra experience every 6 minutes, but I think I'm an example of just how much of a unicorn rpr raises are.

Ok yeah, you have a point. I know some of the team are awsome at watching and raising rprs, but speaking for myself - it's an aspect I was always /awful/ at. When/if I've more time to DM, I'll definatly try and improve.

[Anime Sword Fighter]

One thing I'd like to point out is that Skal really helped me get into the game. It's so condensed compared to Arelith that you get used to the map and the community very quickly - it's really comfortable to start. Not sure why the mention "recommended for new players" was removed but....I followed that recommendation and didn't regret it. I would have started on Arelith directly it would have been more difficult I believe.

Many players, especially veteran players, see Skaljard as objectively inferior to other starts in regards to leveling, interaction between players, and in social mobility. It is because of its completely isolated nature, level-cap, and truly worse rewards-from-writs. It has indeed festered a certain silliness (I like to think of it as a containment area) that wouldn't be found in other places -- people walking around with Tiefling horns but no award to actually be a Tiefling, silly joke characters, etc.

Personally, I think Skaljard could easily be re-made into a low-level introduction area for exactly the reasons mentioned in the quoted post. The map and town are condensed, everyone and all the shops are right there and easy to get into. There is also an easy availability of crafting resources, at least for the lowest level products, that are an absolute pain to try to get as a low-level elsewhere. Some people want Skal completely shut down, but I'd like it to stay-- with the forced isolation removed, meaning characters would be able to come and go without the frozen ocean thing. I like Skal's isolation to a degree, so I think a specialized boat like how you get to Sibayad would be an easy fix. Stick a special NPC at the Crows Nest to take people to and from Skal, and boom. Nice little starting point without the contained festering.

[darthkitteh]

I have played in games and systems before (even LARP does this) where a group of community support players have a tag, which can be available to help newbies.

Maybe a new player has an item that literally states: NEED HELP USE THIS!
When they do it puts them in a list, one that the support guys can see from an ingame command, and then can message the player in a tell to help.

(Spinning ideas!)

Anyway, Ive been doing this a lot with New Kobolds, as its an IC thing she would do. Helping the fledglings etc. I would say hello IC ask if they are new here etc, and in a tell a quick, "hey, new char or new to server?"
Which then leads to the "if you need any help just ping me, im tell friendly =^.^=" <- some of you may of seen this xD



It is indeed important to be inclusive, but it is good to have set volunteers to help answer the simple questions/mechanics, to free up DM time.

[Hin_Justice]

Ok so yeah, maybe we should do more to raise rprs, especial 10's to 20's for sure. You may have the right of it there.

But that said actually very little is now locked behind RPR. The only thing I can think of off hand is The Assassin token, Being a Pail Master, and Red Dragon Deciple (if you are a Kobold) which requires an RPR of 20. I can't think of anything else that hangs off your rpr rating now.


Unless I'm being a big silly and forgetting something?

Don't you also need approval for Harper Scout too?

[Opustus]

Dear satan, while the elves are hard at work fixing us a real nice time, I suggest you buddy up with some friendly Arelith goobsters. When I made my second character on Arelith, her journey began on the Distant Shores module, and there were many n00bfriendly people wanting to foster my growth with loving patience both IC and OOC. Even though I've played NWN for 10 years, Arelith is a server all its own with added layers through systems like the "I already have a job IRL, but this job is disguised as a game, so does this make me a work addict?" job system and the "oh, I tried this path and now people say it's bad and that I'm bad and now I feel bad" path system. Hngh.

EDIT: I can't remember how long it took me to get my RP confidence boosted to 20 RPR, probably at least well over half a year even though I played pretty actively. I have no references to speak on behalf of the quality of my RP though, but it's not great. When the DM promoted me, I didn't get the feeling that she actually tried to make an honest assessment of my RPly performance but rather she seemed surprised that poor souls with 10 RPR even existed. Maybe it's some maturity thing, dunno. Have DMs considered the idea of having players start off with 20 RPR by default? Then the option to lower someone's RPR could be used as a punitive tool, e.g. if people wildly and repeatedly broke basic RP etiquette.

[Ebonstar]

maybe change the skal frozen sea thing to leaving can happen year round due to captain knowing how to break ice, but incoming captains dont have that specialty and only go to skal during the summer

rpr i dont pay attention to since i got a 20 my first week or so playing, and that was over ten years ago.

[The GrumpyCat]

Ok so yeah, maybe we should do more to raise rprs, especial 10's to 20's for sure. You may have the right of it there.

But that said actually very little is now locked behind RPR. The only thing I can think of off hand is The Assassin token, Being a Pail Master, and Red Dragon Deciple (if you are a Kobold) which requires an RPR of 20. I can't think of anything else that hangs off your rpr rating now.


Unless I'm being a big silly and forgetting something?

Don't you also need approval for Harper Scout too?

You need approval but not an RPR rating I think.

[lakhena]

I agree with Satan that Arelith could definitely be more noob friendly in regards to learning the mechanics.

There are a number of scripted things that make Arelith truly special that many of the veterans take for granted, that can be introduced creatively via quests or add ons to NPC conversations. I would recommend, if time permits (time is a precious commodity, I know), altering starter quests or writs to help introduce some of the mechanics more. For example, with the existing Speedy messenger quests, make the NPC actually do something with the items after they're given -- e.g. an NPC can demonstrate how a letter can be left on someone's door. The guarding mechanic can be introduced via escorting an NPC from one place to another.

I'm happy to help provide some input or ideas for making the server more noob-friendly, and I'm sure there are other willing newer players, too.

[Harkath]

From the development side we're gearing up to help with this soon, as our first limited Mod will soon be available to download when joining the server. This is primarily intended to present the 'correct' information for class, race and spell/feat choices so players will need to rely less upon the wiki in future.

Like, a .tlk style thing? That's dope. Having to reference the wiki is kind've a pain. (no offense wiki contributors, it's a gift too)

[Flashish]

As a new player but being fairly familiar with NWN and pen and paper RP, the only thing that really confused me was the crafting system. It also seems like some of the crafting specialties are a bit more beneficial to a player than others, but this is somewhat balanced out by the additional difficulty of finding a specialist in the rarer crafts. I suppose they could demand more for their services when required, but very often a player will refuse payment, as was the case recently when I needed an art crafter and was unable to locate one for a week or so. I eventually got him to accept an uncut emerald, on the basis that it was more or less useless to me and did lead to some fun RP for myself and hopefully the other player involved.

[Irongron]

As a new player but being fairly familiar with NWN and pen and paper RP, the only thing that really confused me was the crafting system. It also seems like some of the crafting specialties are a bit more beneficial to a player than others, but this is somewhat balanced out by the additional difficulty of finding a specialist in the rarer crafts. I suppose they could demand more for their services when required, but very often a player will refuse payment, as was the case recently when I needed an art crafter and was unable to locate one for a week or so. I eventually got him to accept an uncut emerald, on the basis that it was more or less useless to me and did lead to some fun RP for myself and hopefully the other player involved.

At various times in our history there have been large, active player-run trade guilds/associations. I think given how crafting is at the moment there would be plenty of room for a similar organisation.

Personally my favourite aspect of Arelith crafting is the descriptions players place upon the items. Its always astonishing to see something so private (and ultimately disposable) have such an excellent accompanying write-up. When I do get round to browsing player shops its often just to see what players have been writing lately.

[Flashish]

The stories and descriptions behind items are great. That was part of my reluctance to just buy the item I needed, and why I decided to go the crafting route. I found, mined or was gifted every part of the item. It's more personal and is now actually part of the characters story. Also, the player who made the item for me actually roleplayed the crafting process, describing spinning the mithril and silver into fine threads and carefully wrapping them around the jewels. Overall it was a top notch encounter out of what ordinarily would have been a throughly mundane transaction.

Lord Of The Rings would have been a much different book if Sauron just bought the One Ring at a swap meet instead of forging it himself in Mount Doom.

[Archnon]

This is a really awesome thread and I really like all the ideas kicked around. I too am a new player (couple of months) and a few of things that I have struggled with are:

Finding communities that play at specific times. I started in Brog as a svirf only to come to realize that PST does not line up with almost anyone in brog. You have to figure out how to RP without in person interactions which can get difficult. I also realized that a number of pirates do play at that time, so I have been trying to integrate with them on another toon. But that took time to figure out. Trying to find a community at your specific play time can be difficult.

The other issue I had was builds. I mean, there are a few specific build tricks that everyone takes (UMD dump comes to mind) that as a new player, i had no idea. I have made and deleted a lot of low level characters because once I got going, i realized the mechanics were trash. My first start was a pure monk, which in nwn vanilla single player is a seriously wrecking build. PVP though, it is trash. That is the truth of a lot of the build styles. What works on the private game vs the server is totally different. That took a lot of time with me combing these forums to figure stuff out and frankly my builds are still trash. A basics of pvp building or a how is this different might be interesting.

Finally, I honestly think the RPR thing is a bit of a joke at this point. I thought the key was to add to the community, so I made my apartment in the Grotto public, turned it into a real library, added art works around the area, talked to everyone I saw and nothing. It made me realize that it is sort of like the old comedy show "Who's Line Is It Anyway". The points don't really matter. It sucks if you want to build an assassin, but otherwise, the DM's are just too busy, especially given the current faction conflicts that are driving the server currently. (I think the assassin thing should honestly work just like the harper thing, just know that you are committed character is enough) As far as the recommendation system, I think people just assume that everyone has 20 RPR or more. I told a fellow player that I RP with consistently that I had 10 RPR the other day and he was shocked. He had never thought to recommend me for more because he assumed I was already up.

[Taerl]

On the point of rpr, maybe for dm's when the are logged in, each character has a different color hue to them according to rpr setting. Kinda like how it used to be for alignment when we're in the fugue. But just dms see it instead. New phone players or folks with zero rpr have no colored hue. Easy to spot who needs to be watched and all.

[satan]

This is a really awesome thread and I really like all the ideas kicked around. I too am a new player (couple of months) and a few of things that I have struggled with are:

Finding communities that play at specific times. I started in Brog as a svirf only to come to realize that PST does not line up with almost anyone in brog. You have to figure out how to RP without in person interactions which can get difficult. I also realized that a number of pirates do play at that time, so I have been trying to integrate with them on another toon. But that took time to figure out. Trying to find a community at your specific play time can be difficult.

The other issue I had was builds. I mean, there are a few specific build tricks that everyone takes (UMD dump comes to mind) that as a new player, i had no idea. I have made and deleted a lot of low level characters because once I got going, i realized the mechanics were trash. My first start was a pure monk, which in nwn vanilla single player is a seriously wrecking build. PVP though, it is trash. That is the truth of a lot of the build styles. What works on the private game vs the server is totally different. That took a lot of time with me combing these forums to figure stuff out and frankly my builds are still trash. A basics of pvp building or a how is this different might be interesting.

Finally, I honestly think the RPR thing is a bit of a joke at this point. I thought the key was to add to the community, so I made my apartment in the Grotto public, turned it into a real library, added art works around the area, talked to everyone I saw and nothing. It made me realize that it is sort of like the old comedy show "Who's Line Is It Anyway". The points don't really matter. It sucks if you want to build an assassin, but otherwise, the DM's are just too busy, especially given the current faction conflicts that are driving the server currently. (I think the assassin thing should honestly work just like the harper thing, just know that you are committed character is enough) As far as the recommendation system, I think people just assume that everyone has 20 RPR or more. I told a fellow player that I RP with consistently that I had 10 RPR the other day and he was shocked. He had never thought to recommend me for more because he assumed I was already up.

Hah, ya. Since my original post, my quest to become an assassin has died. Joke doesn't even begin to cover it.

Some of the DMs here are downright unfriendly to be honest. Ive had several interactions with different DMs now, and all of them have been negative experiences.

I get that most of them have been at it for years, and it's a thankless and unpaid job, but it's pretty obvious if you aren't part of a chosen group you are either an annoyance or might as well not exist. It's not a good look if you are trying to keep and hold new players.

Good thing the game and community are excellent.