On Lesbian Characters

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Twily
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On Lesbian Characters

Post by Twily » Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:56 am

I know this is singling myself out and painting a bit target on me, but someone needs to say it.

Lesbians on Arelith are getting way too common.
At one point in the past being a lesbian on Arelith was taboo, and characters would judge and outcast you for it. Over time this culture has shifted, and now lesbians are extremely common.

To the people who play lesbian characters, please ask yourself why you are playing a lesbian character. What you gain from it. Why you want to have a lesbian character.
If it's for attention, a kink or some sort of sexual gratification or fantasy, please go to Sinfar. I'm not going to kink shame, but Arelith isn't the place for it.

And if you do keep playing a lesbian character, please have your character be genuine.
A lesbian character isn't 'special', it's not something to broadcast to the world and make everyone your character meets aware of. Have some modesty and tone down the PDA, stop calling your character's partner 'love' in public, stay with realistic race selections for your character's partner, and if you're playing a 5% character recognize the extra responsibility that comes with it(around half of every 5% character I've seen recently was a lesbian).


Don't mistake me as being homophobic though.
I have no problem with LGBT people in real life(In fact I'm one of them, it's why this bothers me so much), and there's nothing wrong with genuine lesbian or gay couples on Arelith.
The problem is that the majority of lesbian characters on Arelith are not genuine, and the way they're played is disingenuous.
They're made as such for attention, as a fad, or in the worst case, for sexual gratification or to fulfill some sort of sexual fantasy. I've seen literally countless lesbian couples with things like Human/Halfling couples, tieflings, polyamory and so on.
I've even on several occasions had female tieflings openly flirt with my 5% character who they had never met, with no apparent reason beyond my character being 'special' and sticking out.

Some factors that show these are not all genuine:
-The amount of PDA from Lesbian couples on Arelith, especially compared to other couples. Handholding, kissing, nuzzling, hugging, calling their partner love in public settings around others, etc.
-The among of drama from lesbian couples relative to other couples(cheating, strange race mixes, poly amorous relationships, childish behaviors, etc).
-How many lesbian characters/couples there are relative to gay characters/couples
-And the big one: How many lesbian couples there are relative to straight couples. Lately I see far more lesbian couples than I do straight couples.

And to those who say I should report the problem players DMs.
I have, but this is a larger ongoing trend for years and reporting problem players as they're problems hasn't done anything to address the larger shift.

To those who say I should report this concern to the devs, I have done that as well. There's a catch though.
Whether the devs agree with my view or not(mind you I don't know which way they side on the matter), they can't do much about it without the risk of seeming extremely homophobic in a society that denounces anyone who is homophobic at an increasingly large rate. So even if they did end up agreeing with me(which again, I don't know what way they side on the matter), there's not much they can do about it.

There is a point the responsibility falls on us as the players to maintain a certain atmosphere on the server, and this is one of those times.


And again. I'm not saying it's wrong to play a lesbian character.
All I'm saying is to ask yourself why you want to play one to decide if Arelith is the right place for it, and if you do decide Arelith is the right place, to play the character with the level of sincerity and modesty that it should be.

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ImWithThisGuy
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Re: On Lesbian Characters

Post by ImWithThisGuy » Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:58 am

Honestly?

I've got to say that I've noticed the increase as well.

It's difficult to say whether or not people are wrong to play lesbian characters. And never having played one myself, I don't really get the reasoning on a personal level. Inherently, there is nothing WRONG with playing a lesbian, gay, or otherwise character. However, there is a WRONG way to play them. And from an outside perspective, I'd say it's quite clear that many people don't understand that.

The inherent reasoning for playing a lesbian character is already incredibly limited in the Arelith setting; It's very hard to justify exactly "why" the character is a lesbian, other than their player wishes it. I've seen it done right, but far more frequently, I've seen it done wrong. For lack of a better word, "flaunting" a lesbian relationship is dangerously close to that line. There are places in our world (As in, the physical) where doing that is enough to be punished by law, or even death, in some less forgiving countries.

It's very immature to make a lesbian "Because you want a lesbian character." This is only made worse if they are used to "get off"- And by the far more descriptive emotes I've seen from lesbian couples than any other (gays included) I'd say this is certainly the case for some. Lesbian characters are only as much of a problem as the player makes them.

The most I can say is what's already been said: Think of WHY your character is or would be that way. What influences have your own thoughts had on what you want them to be? Is it really necessary to make sure every single person knows your character's relationship status? Are children at the age of 13 (myself being even younger than that when I started) suitable to see it? (The final question is one that is applied to all characters and players, not just lesbians, I only mention it here due to seeing a larger presence in those characters.)

Yes, In most cases you might be fine. But I've seen some pretty intimate.. "cuddling" in the past. Frankly, I don't want to see that from any couple, regardless of compliance with the rules.

As a rule of thumb, I find it safer to not push the line at all, as people have their own thoughts on what is appropriate or not- As well as being generally more respectful. Just keep it reasonable, and remember that while it definitely can exist in a FR setting, people were rarely if ever so excited to make a show of their homosexual relationship in public.

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Kuma
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Re: On Lesbian Characters

Post by Kuma » Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:08 am

i should get gay marriage banned, again, just to relive my glory days

edit: i'll squeeze in a point before the inevitable lock: the fetishisation of LGBT+ identities is and has always been an "issue" in online RP communities, one that's especially visible now, and one that unfortunately isn't really gonna be solved via a forum thread

what are we gonna do, say "no more queers please"? there's really nothing to be done about it

(i propose a new reward for those spending a Greater Award...)
Last edited by Kuma on Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:19 am, edited 2 times in total.

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strong yeet
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Re: On Lesbian Characters

Post by strong yeet » Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:12 am

Twily wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:56 am
Lesbians on Arelith are getting way too common.
JJJ DID NOTHING WRONG

Nekonecro
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Re: On Lesbian Characters

Post by Nekonecro » Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:17 am

I'm sorry to say that the levels of open lesbian cuddling has reached critical MMO levels of numbers.

Unfortunately there isn't any real way one can address it without having to preface it with multiple notes that you have nothing against same gender coupling.

The special lesbian snowflake has been around forever and will probably continue to be a thing for a long time afterwards.

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MorallyGrey
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Re: On Lesbian Characters

Post by MorallyGrey » Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:26 am

I think the issue isn't the sexuality of any of these characters, it's that the nature of their sexuality has become what most people perceive to be the bulk of their RP.

On a server that's advertised and claimed to be about the high adventure of D&D, it's feeling more like a SOC-RP server. But, what can you do?
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Tarkus the dog
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Re: On Lesbian Characters

Post by Tarkus the dog » Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:26 am

Female players playing male PCs that are in relationship with other male PCs who are played by women or gay men because they are more comfortable with that.

Male players playing female PCs that are in relationship with other female PCs who are played by men or gay women because they are more comfortable that.

There I solved your big dilemma for you.

ALSO KUMA IS NOT ALLOWED TO BE GAY
Last edited by Tarkus the dog on Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

magistrasa
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Re: On Lesbian Characters

Post by magistrasa » Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:27 am

i don't know how you can make this thread straight-faced without realizing it is going to do a lot more harm than good.

the only people who are really going to read this kind of feedback and internalize it and try to take it to heart are the people who use roleplay as a form of exploration and self-expression. this kind of inherently puts them in a place of anxiety, wondering if they're doing harm to the community by exploring their feelings on sexuality. it's discouraging the people who are earnestly trying to tell a story that means something to them. the ill-intentioned provocateurs you're actually trying to discourage probably couldn't care less. chances are they even enjoy the outrage, validating their portrayal of "the taboo" and making it all the more gratifying.

-delete_thread x2

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The GrumpyCat
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Re: On Lesbian Characters

Post by The GrumpyCat » Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:48 am

An intereting subject, and people have brought up good points. Mostly that point being.

'Eh. What'cha gonna do?'

Ultimatly there are plenty of people who rp such in a poor manner. But then again there's lots of people who rp many things in a poor manner, including hetrosexual relationships. And (at least up to a point) we don't ban people for poor rp. So long as that rp is kept PG13, then it's all good.

It does enter an interesting question though - Should RP of GBLT(ect) be limited or curtailed out of respect for that group of people?

I think on the whole the answer is no. And I know that's an odd tact to take - I mean I agree that there's a fair few situations where I've been concerned such rp is done for titilation, or just generally rped poorly* That said I also know many characters who's sexuality is very much second fiddle to all the other awsome stuff they do. Or where it isn't, but it's woven into the plot with such interest and intencity that I am drawn in all the more by it.

And I don't think it's generally wise to shove this stuff under the table for fear of 'offending' anyone. Because part of acceptence is just getting stuff out there. Yeah, sure, the snuggle giggling lesbians in a corner is a bit trite, but if it gets people used to the idea that such a thing is, ultimatly, pretty fine and normal - then this is only a net good in the long term?

Perhaps the takeaway is not to go 'Ugh. Lesbians... we should cull them.'

But rather to encourage people to brauden and improve their rp. (And also to not just dismiss someone because they are playing a lesbian. There's many characters out there who I've met who are lesbians but, like with anything else, that is only a tiny part of their rp. And much of their rp around that is fantastic.) To say to someone 'Sure your characters a lesbian. Ok. But that's dull. That means nothing. What -else- is there to them?'

Sexuality shouldn't be entirely what a character is about. It can be a facet sure, heck it can be an -important- facet even, but it is only a facet, a tool for telling other, grander stories.

Ultimatly I think I'd rather see 10000 poorly played Lesbians, than a server with no Lesbians at all. Because I'm in favour of many different, multifacted, fun stories. Because I like the idea that, even if it's sometimes done badly, people can feel confident expressing practically any form of sexuality they so please for their characters (so long as it's PG13). Because ultimatly, at the risk of sounding like a big lefty snowflake, that's something I want to see in real life.

*This isn't confined to lesbian rp. I have a pet peeve againt badly rped women in general. I dispise the emote *giggles* (Because *giggle* I'm a *giggle* girl and we *giggle* all the time and *giggle* look at my big chest and *giggle* childlike attitude because *giggle* girls are all *giggle* Like this! And all we *giggle* care about is snuggles and wuggles and *giggles* Having a loverly romance! *giggle*)
This too shall pass.

(I now have a DM Discord (I hope) It's DM GrumpyCat#7185 but please keep in mind I'm very busy IRL so I can't promise how quick I'll get back to you.)

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