Xerah wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:59 pm
ImWithThisGuy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:44 pm
*This change hurts casual players as much or more than dedicated or veteran players, short term and long term.
I think this is a fundamental misunderstanding of how gold moves through the economy. Gold moves from levelling characters to established characters through PC shops, primiarly. If these casual players have less gold, then the price for things will eventually adjust down to compensate. If character primarily geared up through NPC shops that don't change costs, then you would be right, but there is a fluctuating economy.
I must not have been very clear with my first post, I apologize. While gold drops are something of small concern, they aren't what really got me thinking. But for clarity's sake; when I say that casual players are effected both long term and short term, they are for different reasons: (apologies, I'm a long winded buffoon)
Short term, casual players are effected more for as long as prices stay high. Until the market stabilizes, they will have an even harder time making up the difference in price and gold availability. Less opportunity to gain gold means high gold valued items will eventually go on the decline, but initially, there will be a bit of a disconnect causing a poorly represented price vs actual value. With a lower total gold pool, they can afford much less.
Long term, casual players may have to compete with higher level epics even back in lower level areas, or perhaps more aggressive territory battles in high ones. Needless to say, casual players are at a harsh disadvantage here. Now I don't mean to say that this issue doesn't already exist, because it certainly does; The change doesn't do anything to address it, and I suppose it could possibly worsen it. The point is when a casual player already makes less than your typical dedicated player, and then subsequently gets shut out by~ that dedicated player, malicious or not.. the gap only widens. I'm aware the devs will step in if it gets out of hand, but I feel those situations are better avoided than approached.
I won't pretend to know everything about marketing or economy, and you're right about both player shops being a large source of gold market, as well as that the cost of things eventually declining. But I can say as a casual player myself that if there is something that makes me worry more than I already do about going to high level areas, or worse, some medium-low level areas, there's a larger issue that needs to be addressed. Places like the Lost Desert come to mind, Glorag Mur, The undead fields and manor, as well as the ogre cave in Minmir, and even Kholingen will all be seeing much more attention now from people that are a fair ways above their level. Those listed range from level 15-20, but they would do wonders in loot drops compared to the now-nerfed epic dungeons. Give it a couple easy loops and you've already made the difference in your average rune drop. Not that I support the mentality, but it's prevalent enough to reference.
Not that I think these places need further adjustment either; not at all- It's just that once things are taken into mind like scrolls, consumables, loot tables between different mobs (Undead dropping higher value scrolls; constructs dropping useful crafting materials, etc.), magical weapons, and skills that increase value from vendors.. It's just too easy to surpass your average run in Runic-tier dungeon like Mourn, Maur, Aurillites, Slime temple, and otherwise. I don't think that's the intent, but I don't know everything going on behind the curtain or knowledge on future changes; so I can only offer an outside view.
But I digress! I would generally state that's a minor worry when compared to party disparity (more on that later) or the writ changes; mostly because I don't know to what extent they have been altered. If they only offer 25% of the original reward... They simply don't offer enough when those characters split their non-writ gold, even so far as funding consumables. Reducing these values will effect casual players the most (read as, compared to drops), because that set gold value will very likely make up a higher percent of their total gold pool than the gold pool of a dedicated or grindy player. There have been times where all I could do was hop on, do my three writs, and hop off.
TLDR
I test ran a few dungeons this evening and came to an average 8000 per dungeon and 1500 per writ, so with two other people, I gained a total of (8000/3party) +1500writ = 4100. Then I used various bandages, wands, potions, scrolls, spell components, etc.. I spent more, but for the sake of ease, we'll go with a reasonable 1500 gold spent in those things- with all of them having set crafting/purchase prices that's very fair- that leaves 2600.. Multiplied by three writs is 8000~. 8000, to give it a set value, is roughly the same as getting a single custom Stat1Stat1Skill2Skill2 item, with average failures. And maybe a bit of pocket change left over. This assuming you're not paying much of an enchanter's fee, or doing it personally at tier 3.
That's not a whole lot to work off of, though with some persistence (or extra grinding), it's manageable. That isn't always fun but disregarding that aspect... Things start to look a whole lot different when we reduce the party members. Even if we drop that number to one other person, it's 4000, or 12000 daily(each, after expenses). A notable increase, and exactly why people don't like large parties. Soloing, those numbers make a whopping 24000 ((8000/1)+1500writ-1500cost)x3writ- per day. That's three times what I got with three people, for the same task! No wonder everyone wants to, or simply does solo. The problem only gets worse with the more people in party you have.
Anyway, these were all done by just the writs and a single pass for their dungeon's gold and grabbing all I could from bookshelves and other various tidbits, so it's far easier to make much more than this with loops search, lore, and appraise. And heck, it took an average of 30-35 minutes because I didn't bum-rush, so clearly, the amount of gold is still a high number, but then what's the issue?
It's been a sad reality for a long time, and it still remains; Partying. These gold changes were likely made to target the solo player who may have lacked some restraint, but due to this, successful or not, may also have been implemented without considering fully the players who go in groups. If changes are being made to the gold system and general economy, I for one would like to see gold changes taking into account the effects of parties, or having some points to counteract such a large disparity between solo players and party players. There are matters of factions creating easy monopolies however, So I can understand some of the downsides. Instead, a nerf to gold if there are no other players in party would be more than sufficient, if just a bit sad.
(EDIT: Phew! Almost forgot to give a TLDR for that wall of text. Sorry!)
TLDR so I didn't read your TLDR
Reduced writ gold is a worse problem for time short people than reduced drops. With lower general gold income, static prices (lenses, wisps, bandages, at-cost-scrolls, etc) are comparatively worth 'more', especially for casual players which always party; all will have significantly smaller gold pools, with larger percentages being spent on static prices. Partying is the largest disadvantage in looting capacity for everyone, but especially casuals, and should be fixed as well! That about covers it.