I've become jaded at the system, that voting makes it into a popularity contest at best, or a clique strangle holding something at worst. And regardless of who is in power, the problem still remains that people can get exiled and pariah'd, which means they'll end up in the same problem we're at now where there's not enough spaces for people who are unwelcome in settlements.
I don't like the pariah mechanic, it gives settlements too much power to take housing and shops away from people since it doesn't cost resources. The exile mechanic is bad, I don't like that it makes a mechanical barrier preventing you entry. But pariah being unlimited and free has added a new uneasy layer to the dynamic. Where if you're a petty criminal, you can lose everything in town. Where if you do anything at all people don't like, you lose everything. Where if you worship a god people don't like, you're now pariah. I think the system should be removed. I think exile should be removed too. Sibayad does pretty well without it. I was told the mechanic exists to deal with griefers, IMO the DM team should be the ones dealing with those.
I've not actually been made pariah anywhere, but the threat of it being a possibility if I ever do anything to shake things means that I plan all of my characters around the expectation that they will lose settlement access. And I think the looming threat hits a lot of people. And people who are caught doing petty crime or who worship Bane certainly are made pariah. Why wouldn't they be? There's no drawback to doing it, it doesn't cost any resources. This post in this thread spells it out:
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=31509&start=25#p248044
Get caught, get out. Which is the very problem I'm trying to describe. It absolutely butchers conflict once people have nowhere left they can RP. Exiling/pariah shuts down conflict.
In contrast, what I've seen in Sibayad is fairly successful. People can come in and RP and form groups there, and once they stop being active, they don't really hold anything hostage. Some people try to claim the city with fixtures, but as soon as they stop being active, the fixtures are trashed, and the town goes back to normal until the next group moves in. I would like to see some larger scale non-controllable cities, where players have zero say in the government itself. New cities don't need to be entirely new, just expansions on existing places.
People are saying that they think no mechanics can fix the current problem. I would agree, in that I think making -fewer- mechanics will fix it, because players will have breathing room without having to worry. Aniel's post even said, when you get booted out of a settlement, off to Sibayad you go.
I think all of the story and conflict that comes out of Sibayad is proof that this sort of thing works. And it works because players in Sibayad can't just exile other players and stop a conflict before it starts.
Otherwise, I think Torugor's post really highlights the thing Grumpycat was saying about how there's no distinction to being an actual child-eating cultist, and a sketchy person who hangs out with sketchy people.
My best example of why this is a problem is also my best example of pre-download behaviour I've seen from people. Because it's coming from "my side" of this argument.
I understand why Jacob Swift is hated by people, that the Arcane Tower was held in the Conclave's clutches for ages, that it was stagnant, etc. But then it was opened up. There is zero reason for any of these grudges to persist. And yet I see people still making characters who magically learn about Jacob Swift the Palemaster, and go on a crusade against him. Jacob is barely active. There are actual dangerous necromancers in the world, and yet for some reason the one who isn't doing anything at all, is the one everyone focuses on.
Worst was this happened again after the Twisted Rune plot. There was a very active Velsharoon cult that Garrett made all kinds of notes on so people could go after them. What did people do? Go after Jacob instead. What the heck! He had nothing to do with this! Personally I think it's just bullying, because people don't like him. And everyone justifies it because "Well, he's an old character, he's been doing the same thing for years on end, he's a palemaster," and it's just hollow excuses.
And it brings me to another question- If a palemaster who teaches against animation and advocates for responsible use of necromancy has people trying to bully him off the surface, what does that mean for actual evil characters doing evil things who want to try and RP on the surface? Or are you just trying to bully him into deleting the character? I don't like it either way. I think Jacob should have every right to continue RPing and doing mage RP on the surface, just like I think necromancers should be able to set up a necromancy guild somewhere and be surface exclusive, not feeling forced to join the Arcanum.
Which ties into the whole notion of tolerance RP. Usually it comes up in terms of "good" characters peer pressuring people into accepting drow, kobolds, or tieflings without question.
But a side effect of outed evil characters being cast out of society is they end up having to become more tolerant to monsters if they want to continue existing as a character, because chances are they're going to end up dealing with Andunor at some point. Which ends up causing problems for evil groups that are intolerant of monsters, the amount of people they can RP with ends up being cut even more.
Some quotes I liked that I wanted to reply to:
This was my experience on Garrett as well, and is why I think there really ought to be a non-settlement city for good characters. Similarly...Seven Sons of Sin wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 5:06 amThe most resistance (yet again) I've ever played from a good character is from other good characters.
This has become an increasing issue lately. I report it when I see it, but I've been hearing other players say they've seen a giant upswing in it. I'm yelling at them, keep reporting, but some of them are starting to tell me they're feeling burnt out from reporting all the time.DM Rex wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:34 amRacist is by the by not a term permitted on Arelith. As in, racism can and does exist in this fictional fantasy world. And whether people openly do so or not, they all have some predispositions on various races big and small.
There is also the matter of the monster race policy, as Arelith does not support drow walking openly in daylight, or comfortably on the surface for extended periods of time. There are a few races that can walk between the top and bottom, but besides those few the expectation is that those who shouldn't be comfortable moving in the open, or accepted by every society should be lurking in their respective territories. Individuals that violate these expectations are to be reported.
That's what it feels like at times. It was a bit depressing when I had a lot of positive feedback from people who were interested in joining my guild. Only to learn all of them played Underdark and were outcasts, so couldn't join.Flower Power wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:34 pmAnd at that point, you may as well just be playing in Andunor, which is why most evil PCs have ended up down there. The surface needs more spaces where people can be bad people, without having to end up directly working alongside Literal Actual Monsters. Andunor was great for RP in the Underdark - but I think it's probably one of the worst things that ever happened to evil RP on the Surface.
This is good and worthy of its own thread.Seven Sons of Sin wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 5:06 amAnother of SsoS's crazy hottakes - The whole bloody castle system incentivizes nothing more than rewarding the hording of wealth, the institutionalization of factions/cliques, and deleterious non-confrontational settlement behaviour.
How do you get a castle?
You bid on it.
You don't conquer it. You don't vote on it. None of the mechanics are reflective of any kind of positive roleplaying. You literally just throw money. Sure, there's some level of subterfuge around the auction, but really, it's just about gold.
I've had that feeling too. I don't think it's even possible for anyone to do 40 RPR quality RP anymore. There is nothing that can be moved and shaken.Archon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:53 amI have reached a point as a player, where I don't know how to contribute positively to the server. As in, there's a constant feeling that established structures will be impossible to shake, and craft anything ''new'', in a way that it creates a wider story and shifts the grid.