Gift of Nobility.

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JustMonika
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Gift of Nobility.

Post by JustMonika » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:11 am

Having previously played a noble from level one to epics, I was admittedly dissapointed the gift did nothing but mildly improve my appraise.

I've spoken with several other nobles, and it appears that the gift is either broken or unimplimented.
Currently nobility is more of a consensus in character, if the Chancellor of Cordor makes you a noble,and other characters believe you are, you are. If you take the gift of nobility, you waste a reward, lock yourself out of using any other rewards for anything else, and would have to exactly the same things as any other character to be considered a noble, and once you are, there are no perks.

I would like to propose the following -

Nobles may access both the Cordor Guard Barracks, and the Chancellor's box at the Arena by speaking to NPCs.
Nobles may access the Palace by use of a portal outside the gates of the palace. Lots of interior areas would still be locked, but they could use the reception area for a 'Nobles only' meeting area.
Nobles may access Castle Gloom/Darrowdeep by speaking to the NPC Guards.

Nobles count as having two votes, rather than 1 in each settlement election - Unless they're harpers.

Nobles lose all of these benefits if they are exiled or a Pariah of Cordor.


I would also like the 'Epic Reputation' feat removed, and for King Edward to be able to be petitioned by the Chancellor to appoint individuals as nobles. This would be in the form of an application by the Chancellor to the DM team, who may in exceptional circumstances grant the feat to PC's, making them nobles.

It should also lose it's +4 to Bluff - As this makes no sense for someone well known!

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Re: Gift of Nobility.

Post by DangerDolphin » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:40 pm

I like all these ideas and would love to see them implemented.

Don't really agree that the Chancellor should be appointing nobles though. Nobles should be an established bloodline from the mainland and the King doesn't have lands/duchies to give out on a whim to 'create' a noble line, it's just a small island.

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Re: Gift of Nobility.

Post by Dragonovith » Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:31 pm

DangerDolphin wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:40 pm
I like all these ideas and would love to see them implemented.

Don't really agree that the Chancellor should be appointing nobles though. Nobles should be an established bloodline from the mainland and the King doesn't have lands/duchies to give out on a whim to 'create' a noble line, it's just a small island.
That's already possible through the castle system. The lord appointed to a castle, by talking with the Castellan NPC, is able to name a few (maybe five, I don't remember now, been too long ago) characters to nobility. They don't get the Silver Palm feat, but they get to enjoy all the other Nobility benefits... which currently I think is just positive water/food tick in settlements (if the settlement leader care to lock them to nobles-only) and having three special henchmen in Darrowdeep available to them, too bad only one of those henchmen is actually useful.

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Re: Gift of Nobility.

Post by JustMonika » Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:19 pm

Dragonovith wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:31 pm
DangerDolphin wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:40 pm
I like all these ideas and would love to see them implemented.

Don't really agree that the Chancellor should be appointing nobles though. Nobles should be an established bloodline from the mainland and the King doesn't have lands/duchies to give out on a whim to 'create' a noble line, it's just a small island.
That's already possible through the castle system. The lord appointed to a castle, by talking with the Castellan NPC, is able to name a few (maybe five, I don't remember now, been too long ago) characters to nobility. They don't get the Silver Palm feat, but they get to enjoy all the other Nobility benefits... which currently I think is just positive water/food tick in settlements (if the settlement leader care to lock them to nobles-only) and having three special henchmen in Darrowdeep available to them, too bad only one of those henchmen is actually useful.
That certainly goes some way towards devaluing the gift for certain.

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Re: Gift of Nobility.

Post by Anime Sword Fighter » Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:29 pm

I would like if the noble gift allowed you to summon retainer henchmen like the tribal barbarian. Obviously not strong like that - they could be fixed at a low level, only receive half of the PC levels and have the Commoner class instead of PC class, etc.

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Re: Gift of Nobility.

Post by cowboy » Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:41 pm

I think the gift of nobility should have some benefits that are just extended gifts. Like a pool you take from to represent (a varied privileged background from various cultures.) Like something along the lines of:

Stipend - your family/clan/house provides you a monthly income that stacks with the gift of wealth.
Renowned - your family/clan/house has a famous history, epic reputation or some influence skill increase.
Equestrian - you family/clan/house provided you instruction in horse riding/equivalent, ride bonuses and maybe a mount summon or combat riding for free.
etc, etc, etc

Something like that. It'd be cool. I have a character who has it and it is part of their background but it hasn't really affect anything. The npcs don't really recognize it outside of the castle system I wouldn't really be able to interact with since both castles are owned by a settlement I am not part of.

(It doesn't need be godlike but there isn't really anything going for the reward option.)
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Re: Gift of Nobility.

Post by Irongron » Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:21 pm

At some point I'd like it moved from a gift to a class.

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Drowble Oh Seven
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Re: Gift of Nobility.

Post by Drowble Oh Seven » Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:44 am

It's neat to have it as a mechanical thing; if only to reduce the number of fresh-off-the-boat nobles.

Could definitely do with a little something, though. I'm playing an Andunor noble, and the gift hasn't really had any impact in and of itself (aside from allowing for the RP, of course!). Nothing too extravagant - It is only a minor, after all - but something.

I'm a bit leery about nobles as a class, mind. Nobles can have as varied a training background as anyone, and I like that there's wizard-nobles, and knight-nobles, and the more artsy (if oxymoronic) commoner-nobles. It'd be a shame to compress all those possibilities into one class - And I can't see just being a noble to be mechanically distinct enough from anything to justify it's own take.
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DangerDolphin
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Re: Gift of Nobility.

Post by DangerDolphin » Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:21 pm

I agree, doesn't make much sense as a class. It's just a background facet.

It might make sense to have a "Commander" or "Leader" type class though.

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Re: Gift of Nobility.

Post by -XXX- » Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:46 pm

Uh, all perks and no downsides... what reasons would there be not to pick this up?
Then if all the characters are noble, what's the point?
...also, what about UD races?

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Re: Gift of Nobility.

Post by Kuma » Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:21 pm

DangerDolphin wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:40 pm
I like all these ideas and would love to see them implemented.

Don't really agree that the Chancellor should be appointing nobles though. Nobles should be an established bloodline from the mainland and the King doesn't have lands/duchies to give out on a whim to 'create' a noble line, it's just a small island.
plenty of real-world instances of non-landed nobility being handed out to people by monarchs
Drowble Oh Seven wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:44 am
I'm a bit leery about nobles as a class, mind. Nobles can have as varied a training background as anyone, and I like that there's wizard-nobles, and knight-nobles, and the more artsy (if oxymoronic) commoner-nobles. It'd be a shame to compress all those possibilities into one class - And I can't see just being a noble to be mechanically distinct enough from anything to justify it's own take.
same. many "Aristocrat" classed, named NPCs in D&D/FR are multiclassed, and lots of other nobles are just straight up adventurer classed. aristocrat as an arelith class strikes me as just bard without magic - i'd be interested to see what the team comes up with for it.
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Re: Gift of Nobility.

Post by MissEvelyn » Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:33 pm

I'd also be wary about a Noble as a class. Plenty of Forgotten Realms nobles take to adventuring while still benefitting from their family pedigree.
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Re: Gift of Nobility.

Post by cowboy » Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:36 pm

Commoner itself should also probably just allow nobility in application by gift because it could fit for less adventure inclined, social climber type people.

Forgotten realms is filled with class leveled people who are nobility either won by sword, conquered in intrigue, or inherited. So I don't really understand why it needs to be a class.

as to downsides, nobility could increase your ECL to also represent your pampered lifestyle.

(plenty of stuff in DnD does this.)

Could also make it so you would not lower yourself to own seedy or common property as well and thus have to dwell in special quarters and anything that is like a guildhall. You're someone, you have to be someone! Honor to the CLAN.

--

I'm mostly just kind of like wondering where the direction that was promised with nobility gift / nobility interaction with NPCs and other stuff went. Back in some of the updates post it was being toted as an eventual thing like not that you're living on ez street but some npcs would treat you differently, unique dialogue, etc.
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Re: Gift of Nobility.

Post by Griefmaker » Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:58 am

I think the gift of nobility would be a fun thing if it allowed certain special interactions like what is already there, but include more. Things like:

-special shops with items not readily available to the "lesser sorts". Or maybe the "Special stocks" of merchants
-special portals in cities or the like which only those who are noble can use
-a small stipend (like the gift of wealth) but far less
-maybe one of the minor starting feats, like silver palm, but something the player can choose
-etc.

For something like this, though, I would suggest making it a greater reward with a number of small benefits, so that not every Dick and Jane are nobility.

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Re: Gift of Nobility.

Post by Marsi » Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:49 am

I think giving players mechanically-determined backdoors into settlement areas is a bad idea that undermines player sovereignty.

I do like the concept of leader-nominated nobility though. It would be cool if there was a generic way settlement authority could ennoble certain characters with custom titles, a pension and a short piece of text detailing their insignia. Real, trackable status and class, but where the power exchange remains in the PC reality. Warehouses, player shops and housing could discriminate in favour of the upper caste as with race/classes etc.
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Re: Gift of Nobility.

Post by NegInfinity » Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:13 pm

-XXX- wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:46 pm
Uh, all perks and no downsides... what reasons would there be not to pick this up?
An npc that dislikes nobles and jacks up prices just for them, for example.
Or some sort of trouble associated with your original house. Like at random point of time you'll get a sudden demand of money, an assassin sent your way, or maybe some minor gift instead, based on business related to your noble house.
-XXX- wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:46 pm
Then if all the characters are noble, what's the point?
You get to look down at all those filthy npc commoners.

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Re: Gift of Nobility.

Post by CptJonas » Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:34 pm

Maybe remove or not all curent stuff...
And give us option to have title in name...
Like "Lord" "Count" "Baron" etc...

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Re: Gift of Nobility.

Post by R0GUE » Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:49 pm

I feel like the biggest thing the upper class gets over the lower class in almost any society is access. Access to say a fancy inn that doesn't let in the dregs. Access to the best shops that are too snooty and expensive for the common man. Access to government offices, and officials, and affairs. I realize this isn't a simple thing to just implement, but it would be cool if Cordor suddenly had a rash of fancy new places, like inns and shops and palace areas, that were only open to those with the gift of nobility, and of course NPCs and stores and quarters that you could only get to in those areas.

That would be something that would make me want to play a noble.

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Re: Gift of Nobility.

Post by Brandon Steel » Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:26 pm

Having noble as a class is kind of weird. Commoner I already thought was a bit strange but it can make sense. Nobles have plenty of tools at their disposal to be adventurers themselves.

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Re: Gift of Nobility.

Post by NegInfinity » Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:46 am

R0GUE wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:49 pm
I feel like the biggest thing the upper class gets over the lower class in almost any society is access. Access to say a fancy inn that doesn't let in the dregs. Access to the best shops that are too snooty and expensive for the common man. Access to government offices, and officials, and affairs. I realize this isn't a simple thing to just implement, but it would be cool if Cordor suddenly had a rash of fancy new places, like inns and shops and palace areas, that were only open to those with the gift of nobility, and of course NPCs and stores and quarters that you could only get to in those areas.

That would be something that would make me want to play a noble.
I'd love to see something like that. An exclusive place you can't enter as a non-noble, or can, but you have to pay a significant sum (let's see... 50k per entry?) and npcs will react to the "filthy commoner" that entered this way poorly. And if you have a noble award, you get a free entry.

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Re: Gift of Nobility.

Post by R0GUE » Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:15 am

NegInfinity wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:46 am
R0GUE wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:49 pm
I feel like the biggest thing the upper class gets over the lower class in almost any society is access. Access to say a fancy inn that doesn't let in the dregs. Access to the best shops that are too snooty and expensive for the common man. Access to government offices, and officials, and affairs. I realize this isn't a simple thing to just implement, but it would be cool if Cordor suddenly had a rash of fancy new places, like inns and shops and palace areas, that were only open to those with the gift of nobility, and of course NPCs and stores and quarters that you could only get to in those areas.

That would be something that would make me want to play a noble.
I'd love to see something like that. An exclusive place you can't enter as a non-noble, or can, but you have to pay a significant sum (let's see... 50k per entry?) and npcs will react to the "filthy commoner" that entered this way poorly. And if you have a noble award, you get a free entry.
Yup that would be great as well.

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Re: Gift of Nobility.

Post by cowboy » Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:57 pm

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Re: Gift of Nobility.

Post by The GrumpyCat » Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:54 pm

I was talking to folk about the noble award recently, and one of the problems that seems to come up is this:

Noble should mean something different to different races/places right?

So we could, say, add in a few perks for Cordor folk, which is great. But what if you're playing a Noble Dwarf? Or Noble elf? And even if you're playing a human, having a class/award that is linked to one place makes exile even worse.

And 'Nobility' is less about 'a thing a person can do' and more about 'how people react'.

This isn't to poo-poo any of the suggestions here, some of them are great, but more just a sliver for thought, that this is a little more complex and hard to institute than it might appear.

Addendum: Though now I think about it, possibly a nice perk for a Noble would be that they cannot be exiled? Just a thought.
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Re: Gift of Nobility.

Post by cowboy » Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:21 pm

I wouldn't do that. Plenty of high figures from fall political influence or power for their misdeeds.


I think assigning a few things to each settlement; unique to nobles who have citizenship in those places isn't too difficult. It's just making a couple of npcs, putting some signs down with some variables. It's time and tedium but it ain't no biggie.

I don't think anyone wants something wild or having super powers. Just that the gift / background give something that is locked to castles that have to be bid upon and that there are only two of.

I would happily write NPC dialogue for various races and existing npcs just to have a few new reactions, or special stores, whatever.
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Re: Gift of Nobility.

Post by MissEvelyn » Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:22 pm

The GrumpyCat wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:54 pm
Addendum: Though now I think about it, possibly a nice perk for a Noble would be that they cannot be exiled? Just a thought.
An after-thought to to this: A noble can only get exiled when they sign their own exile, basically agreeing to it. That would make for some very interesting negotiation Roleplay.

Alternatively, an exiled Noble takes up more exile slots and cannot be exiled indefinitely.

As for the rest of the thread: Another change to add to the Noble trait would be to disallow outcasts to be nobles, as that just doesn't make sense. Roleplay your outcast as an ex-noble all you want, but an Outcast Noble shouldn't be a thing.
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