Slavery System Feedback

An area to facilitate free-form feedback on systems (in-game or out) related to Arelith.

Moderators: Active DMs, Forum Moderators

User avatar
Izaich
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:38 pm

Slavery System Feedback

Post by Izaich » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:04 pm

I'd like to offer some feedback on the slavery system from a outside perspective. I'm playing a character who has interacted with and tried helping numerous slaves, and I'd like to offer some of my thoughts from that point of view. I'd also like to hear from slaves and slavers alike, and see how they feel about the slave system and what kind of changes or additions it should have.

Simply put, there's not a lot someone can do to help a slave. Rescuing someone is out of the question, because they can just be called back. Even if this was somehow accomplished, the slave's still stuck with the collar until the master agrees to release it, or the "secret FOIG method" is employed.

It's led to awkward situations in the past where my character wants to do something to help, but can't do anything. Or where a slave wants to escape, but can't because they can be immediately called back the second anything suspicious happens.

If I were to imagine any elaborate changes, it would be to allow slaves an option to toggle themselves as a 'Runaway' after certain conditions are met. A runaway slave would still have their collar, but be unable to be conjured. To the average eye, they would appear to be a normal slave. Passing a proper Spot/Lore check would reveal the name on their collar has faded. A runaway that can survive in this state for a set amount of IG hours will be able to remove their collar, provided certain conditions are met.

This would be offset by the implementation of a Slave-Catchers guild. Operating similar to the Assassin's Guild, masters can place bounties on runaway slaves to see them recaptured. Evil characters who register with the Slave-Catchers guild will have access to an item called the Man-Catcher. If a slave-catcher renders a runaway unconscious with subdual, they can apply the man-catcher item to them, and reactivate their collar. This would create a cat and mouse scenario between runaway slaves and the catchers trying to reclaim them. Other players can get involved by protecting the runaways or helping the slave-catchers find their targets.

I'd like to see what others think about the slave system, and if it could use any improvements or changes.

Drowboy
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:30 am

Re: Slavery System Feedback

Post by Drowboy » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:08 pm

I'm sure you mean well, but right at this moment the 'too many outcasts' rage is taking a clear turn into 'too many slaves' rage, and this thread is going to be a casualty of that. (The problem is actually that monster races are too ugly/mechanically boring/thematically boring but don't tell anyone.)

That said: more interplay and frankly, ease of un-slaving high level slaves would be nice. There's no legitimate reason someone who can go to the abyss and rip and tear through legions of demons should be easy to be kept a slave.
Archnon wrote: I like the idea of slaves and slavery.

User avatar
Eira
Posts: 167
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:59 am
Location: Denmark

Re: Slavery System Feedback

Post by Eira » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:44 pm

I am in full support of this or something like it. Adding a way to more visibly opt in would be nice, as well as an actual possibility of helping, rather than "just wait to raise x amount of gold or for x set of events to happen"
Akorae Torth
Veriel Xyrdan
Okakri Rosemaw
Nimean Auvre'ly'alth
Reena Welkins - Dead

User avatar
cowboy
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:11 pm

Re: Slavery System Feedback

Post by cowboy » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:54 pm

Slavery as a system has a bunch of very weird things.

The slavery "system" has a bunch of very weird plot armor that makes no sense.

Being a slave doesn't have any slave-master benefit beyond being a slave. The slave gets to have a bank account, gets to own quarters its master can't get into, gets to have personal items and so forth.

Higher level slaves should have various means to break free. There is no reason a epic monk couldn't contort themselves out of bondage, a mage wizard it away, a warrior to brute strength it off, etc, etc. It's very silly.

The "yoinking" thing doesn't make economic sense at all. Why are these guilds able to outfit every single slave with POTENT MAGICAL ARTIFACTS that no one can look at, help with, decipher, debunk? What's the real benefit here for the NPC guilds?

I think it should be mostly relegated to "make it what you want", with more interaction from both chain breakers and slave takers as OP suggests.
If lawyers are disbarred and clergymen are defrocked, shouldn't it follow that cowboys would be deranged?

xanrael
Posts: 187
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:13 pm

Re: Slavery System Feedback

Post by xanrael » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:15 pm

The prisoner's collar may be more fitting for RPing short term slavery.

User avatar
Aradin
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:26 pm

Re: Slavery System Feedback

Post by Aradin » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:16 am

Offering some insight as someone who started as a slave, had two masters, and underwent about five RL months of slave gameplay before getting free. I've been mulling over the slave system for a while and I did actually have one idea about reforming it.

The slavery system is intended to facilitate RP (and if not, prove me wrong). RP on Arelith means, for the most part, interactions between players. And that's where I think the current slave system suffers. As it stands, a slave collar is a harsh mechanical sentence that requires the involvement of NPCs to deal with. Having an NPC middleman between a PC slave and a PC master removes a lot of the agency from both sides, and forces both characters down very specific roads in order to go about things.

I propose an alternate system where the slavery system is completely player-run. I don't have any specific numerical details thought out; consider what follows a 'big picture' kind of pitch.

The basis of the system would be that slave collars are craftable items (or purchasable from the slavemaster NPCs), and there would be several tiers of collars sorted by level range.
It would be pretty easy and cheap to make/purchase a collar that would fit a level 3-8 character. But as a character gets stronger, they'd need to be fitted with a stronger collar that they couldn't break out of. In this way, a level 15-20 collar wouldn't be strong enough to hold a level 24 character, who could break out (using appropriate skill rolls/abilities) and run when their master wasn't looking. A level 30 collar would be extremely costly to create, but it would guarantee you keeping even the strongest slaves in check. Naturally, the skill rolls/abilities needed to break a level 30 collar would have to be insanely high, only barely possible by the strongest chars.
Other characters could help the slave with these skill checks. Obviously, balance needed so that one level 30 goody two-shoes doesn't just run around breaking every collar in existence. Maybe a variety of collars could be made, each resistant to being broken from one source. For example, one collar type is magic-immune, one collar type is immune to physical damage, etc. This would mean that a master should do careful research into their slave's abilities, and get one that the slave could never break out of. It would also mean that the slave would have to seek out not just anyone, but a strong character with the right skillset to help them break their collar.

In addition, the master would get much more control over the nuances of the collar. While they own a slave, they would have an openable dialog menu, similar to the one for factions. In the dialog box they could assign privileges to their slave, such as allowing slave quarter ownership, a personal bank account instead of feeding into the master's bank account, ability to yoink them, etc. (these examples are off the cuff, don't read into them too much). I think this might incentivize a slave to be good and loyal: there are hard mechanical rewards that they can be given, and privileges that can be stripped away. It also provides the slave master a more nuanced way to interact with their slave.

Sorta just thinking out loud here! These ideas are extremely unrefined but maybe they'll be useful food for thought.
Current playing Revyn 'the White' Pelaios.

Formerly played...uh, no one.

Void
Posts: 786
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:03 pm

Re: Slavery System Feedback

Post by Void » Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:50 am

Izaich wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:04 pm
It's led to awkward situations in the past where my character wants to do something to help, but can't do anything. Or where a slave wants to escape, but can't because they can be immediately called back the second anything suspicious happens.
If there was a certain way to disable collar via PC interaction, then it would've rendered entire system useless in matter of minutes. Because there would be a max level character who would go around releasing the slaves with much effort on their part.

Additionally...
Izaich wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:04 pm
If I were to imagine any elaborate changes, it would be to allow slaves an option to toggle themselves as a 'Runaway' after certain conditions are met. A runaway slave would still have their collar, but be unable to be conjured. To the average eye, they would appear to be a normal slave. Passing a proper Spot/Lore check would reveal the name on their collar has faded. A runaway that can survive in this state for a set amount of IG hours will be able to remove their collar, provided certain conditions are met.
There has to be a harsh penalty for this kind of attempt. On permadeath level, if you're caught. Otherwise, once again, it will render the system useless.
Login name: GrayVoid

User avatar
Emotionaloverload
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Posts: 1083
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:39 am

Re: Slavery System Feedback

Post by Emotionaloverload » Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:05 am

I have played a lot of slaves in my day pre-collar and collared. I love the idea of the Runaway slave. I do agree that it needs a harsh penalty however permadeath is a little too harsh. Maybe an exp/level loss? (5 lvls, I'm thinking)

I do think that there needs to be some kind of regulation for slave accounts and properties since it is a little ridiculous that these can go on without supervision. This would open up an avenue for goodly players to help by setting up faction accounts for slaves or hidden properties.

I would love to see the actual profession of slaver promoted with boons instead of all this part time hobbyist slaving but I'm not entirely sure what that might entail. Maybe a quest line that allows Slavers to get boons like a buff to their collars that makes Runaways harder to do?

I feel that the biggest issue I am seeing with the slavery system is that there isn't space for slave stories. There is not a lot of property or means of advancement (unless you have a really great Master). Slave populations gather in just about every city in Faerun that allows slavery but you don't see that in Sibayad or the UD. There is no space for it.

On the point on high lvl slaves, it could be that the higher the lvl the greater the % for successful runaway (nothing huge. Maybe 1% every 5 lvls after the lvl 5 clamp). There are many factors that keep a slave from running so the chance shouldn't fall solely on lvl.


That's all I can think of for now!
-S
Floofystoofs: "Abby: "None of you are free of sin"
My Discord Emotionaloverload#7537

Drowboy
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:30 am

Re: Slavery System Feedback

Post by Drowboy » Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:22 am

Make it so that without a reward, slaves can only be commoners.
Archnon wrote: I like the idea of slaves and slavery.

Archnon
Posts: 309
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:05 am

Re: Slavery System Feedback

Post by Archnon » Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:49 am

I like the idea of slaves and slavery. I think challenging life experiences are a great way to define a characters personality. However, I agree that there aren't the consequences you would expect. Every slave character I have encountered has WANTED to be a slave. I have arranged for the purchase of a few slaves in order to release them for explicit IC reasons. However, you buy them and they are like, no, i need the collar so i can play in the UD.... really for no RP reasons. Then, my the good character that was aiming to free someone is now owning a slave.

That defeats the whole point. As it is played, slave collars are just a way for obviously evil characters (undead summoners and warlocks) to level into high levels without getting torched by some do-gooder paladin. I would love for someone to convince me otherwise. (Yes there are obviously strong RPers out there who take slave to RP it well, but I hold that they are the exception). Once strong, they can then go up to the light again. Now there are all sorts of critiques that can be lobbed here, the most important of which is that there should be a place for these characters to flourish and on Arelith, the UD is it. Alternatively, there should be more dynamic responses to seeing undead summoners that involve RP rather than the typical smash evil response. That is for the good players to figure out. However...

I would love to see some actual negative effects of slavery. Things like:
- Owner takes a LARGE percentage of your gold
- Collar imposes negative stats to your character to keep you in check (think gift of humility style) These can increase as you level. Let Owners adjust this.
- Cannot own quarters.... but owners should be encouraged or forced to share quarters, and perhaps more UD style dwellings with a built in slave quarter with 5-10 slots. Let owners adjust this.
- Collar limits your level, or imposes an experience tax (think of it like a +X ecl). Let owners adjust this.

Finally. Let slaves escape by killing their owner.... or possibly once they kill their owner he loses the power to summon them. Then they have to find a way to get a collar off before someone notices that they are a run away slave. This is the big offset to new owner powers that limit a slaves abilities and would create some actual tension.

Slavery should be bad. A detriment to your characters physical growth while also allowing the character to have an experience that builds an interesting emotional/personal growth. Slave owners and slaves should not be friends, or at least not frequently. And slaves should not all be evil characters. The decision to force starting slaves to be evil baffles me. Good characters can become slaves just as easily as evil characters.

Do something to make being a slave actually bad. Have an in game mechanic actually have in game consequences. That will produce some real RP around being a slave and increase the risk for owners and actually produce a tension that can create stories...

Void
Posts: 786
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:03 pm

Re: Slavery System Feedback

Post by Void » Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:23 am

Emotionaloverload wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:05 am
Maybe an exp/level loss? (5 lvls, I'm thinking)
That would be abused to relevel, unfortunately.
Login name: GrayVoid

xanrael
Posts: 187
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:13 pm

Re: Slavery System Feedback

Post by xanrael » Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:42 am

Archnon wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:49 am
I like the idea of slaves and slavery. I think challenging life experiences are a great way to define a characters personality. However, I agree that there aren't the consequences you would expect. Every slave character I have encountered has WANTED to be a slave. I have arranged for the purchase of a few slaves in order to release them for explicit IC reasons. However, you buy them and they are like, no, i need the collar so i can play in the UD.... really for no RP reasons. Then, my the good character that was aiming to free someone is now owning a slave.

That defeats the whole point. As it is played, slave collars are just a way for obviously evil characters (undead summoners and warlocks) to level into high levels without getting torched by some do-gooder paladin. I would love for someone to convince me otherwise. (Yes there are obviously strong RPers out there who take slave to RP it well, but I hold that they are the exception).
You're always going to have people pick stuff for non-RP reasons. For some it might be the whole reason, others a large part, and some a minor thought.

That said, let's talk about people who do want to RP playing a slave. If they're freed soon after being created they're not getting to play the character they want to play. It would be like making a cleric of Mask and another PC/player wanting to push a plot point where they convert them to Sune. While sure, the power of love conquering all could be a valid plot point it's probably vastly different than what the player of said cleric wanted to play. I wouldn't personally fault them for not wanting to go along with that. The player gets the final say so on their own character.

Edit: I'll also add in it is one of those areas where OOC communication is almost required. A slave and owner should probably know each other's play times, what is expected of them, etc. Planning to immediately overwrite their concept would be a pretty big thing to mention.

User avatar
Petrifictus
Posts: 395
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:53 am
Location: Finland

Re: Slavery System Feedback

Post by Petrifictus » Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:03 am

Slavery System is fine how is it now but maybe add option to release slave free for the masters and that's all.
I do love idea that master earns some gold from slave's writs.
Maybe give power to give shocks or punish slave from attacking master.
Also longtime slaves who have willingly served their masters in different scum and villainy should get Outcast-tag if asked from DMs after getting free.

"Freedom by PvP" is really a bad idea as it would just more discourage people from trying slavery RP than try it, making Andunor, Sibayad and Sencliff full of powerbuilt slave PCs which cant be owned due to constant PvP-rebellions. We want to encourage RP, not PvP. No crafted lvl-collars either as it would just end up people overpricing them in the shops and limiting slavery.

What slavery system simply needs is more responsibility from the players! The Scourge Tribes have taken aim to give best example and positive experience with the Slavery RP, which often has negative reputation due to past rotten apples in the Arelith. We heavily focus that anyone who choose to play/become a slave feel included within the faction, involved with our different events and have a good time, as slaves are shared within the tribes. Before taking a collar and signing a name on it, we interview and make some houserules together based on Slave's/Master's personal wishes, limits, comfort, playtimes, etc.

Do not buy a slave if you're playing an barely played alt, just want your name on the collar or all RP you can provide them is just gathering resources and crafting materials.

Do not play a slave if you cant handle idea of being oppressed or being abused, even if its just a slap on the cheek.
https://petrifications.deviantart.com/
Grumpy Gnome Wotan Woodberry - Retired with family
Goblin Toymaker Karma - Dead
Ogre Karstaag da Main Man - Active and kicking

CNS
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:29 pm

Re: Slavery System Feedback

Post by CNS » Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:24 am

It's increadibly rare that you can find a mechanical solution to a people problem.

Whatever mechanics you put in place will be able to be twisted upside down by creative people with a mind to. The way to handle this is with the DMs helping/dealing with those people.

Slavery is, rightly, always consentual on Arelith. Any mechanic has to keep that in mind. As should players looking to free slaves. Just as a slaves needs to check a character wants to be a slave ooc, those freeing should do the same and check a the player behind a slave wants to be freed before they do so or we end up in awkward positions where your paladin becomes a slave owner.

What would make the mechanics more fun and open up more story options? Masters being able to free slaves more easily is certainly one. Otherwise I think the system works fairly well right now.

Void
Posts: 786
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:03 pm

Re: Slavery System Feedback

Post by Void » Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:51 am

Archnon wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:49 am
Finally. Let slaves escape by killing their owner.... or possibly once they kill their owner he loses the power to summon them.
This actually doesn't make sense.

One of the possible reasons for slave ownership is to have someone stronger than you are who are unable to disobey for some reason. Due to being indoctrinated, brainwashed, or fearing for their life. It is pretty much a trope at this point --> weak master, powerful servant.

That's what the collar is for.
Login name: GrayVoid

User avatar
The1Kobra
Posts: 151
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:44 pm

Re: Slavery System Feedback

Post by The1Kobra » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:41 am

I have, with much experience in working with the slavery system before, noticed that the way it is implemented has led to some very jarring IC behavior. This isn't entirely unexpected, but it can break immersion plenty easily when players take the mechanics to their very literal conclusions. It's sort of the same kind of problem when people in character say that no one ever dies because of the respawn mechanics, which I usually personally consider very similar to metagaming, since it's taking OOC courtesies In Character.

Now, I understand why the collars were made to be difficult to break. If they weren't difficult to break, an epic conjurer could just yoink slaves away and then cast a spell and poof, slave PC is freed. Freedom RP should be more involved than that, hopefully with either a lot of cloak and dagger or raids by slave freeing persons to free slaves. What I've observed though is that generally, trying to free a slave largely amounts to trying to convince the enslaved PC to not be a slave in most cases.

I've seen plenty of slave PCs that were willing slaves, even proud of their slavery. Being broken into it I can understand, but when I see collared PCs who act like their being collared is the greatest thing in the world, to the point where some specifically come to the Underdark just to be enslaved, it generally strains immersion. I get that it can happen, sure, but sometimes it goes a bit too far.

The above instances happening naturally leads to behavior in response. On the surface side, I've seen that most surfacer PCs, when they see a slave, react to them as they would an outcast or other underdweller, regardless of whether they want to be free or not. One would think that a good aligned PC would want to try to free slaves they can, especially if they're right in front of them on the surface, but this attitude is a very rare one, I usually see "back to the depths with you!" by contrast. It even extends to those who try to free slaves, they get a lot of hate for trying to "help" those who are undesirable, with much the same social stigma as a PC having a monster PC friend.
I also have literally observed people saying in character that being a slave is a willing choice, which is again, quite immersion breaking. There's also an assumption that breaking the collars if one is willing to is a simple matter. (Possibly due to the [REDACTED] secret method of breaking the collars being more OOC known). Like stated above, this is taking an OOC mechanic to prevent abuse way too far. Suffice it to say it strains me every time I see it, and I see it more often than I like.

Not that it gets better if a captive slave takes the prisoner collar. I've also seen circumstances where if someone takes the prisoner collar rather than the slave collar, they're immediately accused of being a "surfacer spy" and then killed on sight, because they can break their collar any time they like and then leave.

I wish I had a clear answer to how to fix these issues, since a lot of it is PC perception mixed in with the mechanics, mixed in with enough OOC courtesies to try and prevent abuse. One thing leads to another and some of the things that don't make sense when we look at them too closely are simply an unfortunate side effect of a system which is hard to perfect.

User avatar
An Unattended Cracker
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:45 am

Re: Slavery System Feedback

Post by An Unattended Cracker » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:48 am

CNS wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:24 am
It's increadibly rare that you can find a mechanical solution to a people problem.

Whatever mechanics you put in place will be able to be twisted upside down by creative people with a mind to. The way to handle this is with the DMs helping/dealing with those people.

Slavery is, rightly, always consentual on Arelith. Any mechanic has to keep that in mind. As should players looking to free slaves. Just as a slaves needs to check a character wants to be a slave ooc, those freeing should do the same and check a the player behind a slave wants to be freed before they do so or we end up in awkward positions where your paladin becomes a slave owner.
To echo off of this, consent is also something that can be revoked - meaning that a player should be able to change their mind about wanting to play a slave (or being a slave to a particular player, if they make that experience unenjoyable for whatever reason). And, obviously, this is a 'people' problem more than it is a mechanical one since the ideal solution would be to communicate OOCly in regards to slave status and how to go about reverting it in an IC way. But I feel the system would benefit from an added means of freeing a slave as a master or third party, or bettering the [FOIG means] of escaping by adding in quests specifically meant to introduce PC chainbreakers for aid.

This is one of the things that has kept me from making a dedicated slave - fear that I won't enjoy the RP of whoever ends up owning the character, and that I'd be 'stuck' because the current questline can be tedious/difficult for certain classes (so I'm told by some slave players).

That aside, there are times where I think the system should just be gutted in its entirety due to stale "subterfuge" from known surfacers, sourness from slaves who demanded respect and got punished, and the definitely-not-PG13 type of roleplay that it attracts. Largely, I believe it to be unnecessary - save for the fact that using a collar allows access to use the UD's portals - and that the same concepts could just as easily be done without a mechanical indication.

Void
Posts: 786
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:03 pm

Re: Slavery System Feedback

Post by Void » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:57 am

The1Kobra wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:41 am
I've seen plenty of slave PCs that were willing slaves, even proud of their slavery.
....
I also have literally observed people saying in character that being a slave is a willing choice, which is again,
...
People even in real life can have totally insane beliefs that do not make any sense if one tries to think about them logically.

Same deal applies to the game.

Basically, you've met an IG equivalent of a cultist, sect member or a flat earther. Feel free to react accordingly. It could be fun.
Login name: GrayVoid

Shadowy Reality
Arelith Gold Supporter
Arelith Gold Supporter
Posts: 890
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:56 am

Re: Slavery System Feedback

Post by Shadowy Reality » Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:03 am

I like Slave RP and I think there are multiple ways to go about it.

1) Your slave is broken, accepted its position and does whatever told;
2) Your slave is not broken, so you have all the dynamic of a slave trying to push his condition's limits, see if they break;
3) Your slave is a 'trophy slave', valued for some of its skills, maybe your master praises your greatly and even places you above other characters

I am sure there are many more ways to take on slave RP, but just these are diverse in themselves.
The thing that put me off the most last I was in the UD (and I was playing a slave) was how lenient characters were to slaves. They often spoke ICly of them choosing their master. I understand and agree that there should be an OOC agreement between players, it is great that you both discuss what you are more or less expecting. But ICly slaves are property, objects, they do not have a say in anything, they do not get a choice. I also would love to see slaves be treated more harshly, people are usually quite tame.

I understand that Good folk in the surface might want to free the slaves, it makes sense. But bear in mind that many people chose this RP venue. While their character may want freedom, the player might not be interested in ending that RP so soon in their character development. If it were made easier to escape slavery would lose its meaning.

User avatar
Kuma
Arelith Supporter
Arelith Supporter
Posts: 1386
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 5:05 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: Slavery System Feedback

Post by Kuma » Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:57 am

Emotionaloverload wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:05 am
I feel that the biggest issue I am seeing with the slavery system is that there isn't space for slave stories.
this extract resonated with me

PCs are supposed to make that space but it's hard to make it in a way that exists outside of PC activity/tasks/etc.

andunor's sewers and slums are said to be full of runaways, the poor, and destitute slaves. if you're going to allow a second class citizen occupy a role on the server, then let pcs actually occupy the right space, too.

devs could look into expanding module infrastructure to let slaves play in a way that doesn't seem like free outcasts on a bail timer and encourage them to perform their role.
Irongron wrote: Whatever one may feel about humans in the setting, the outcasts are absolutely a key reason why Andunor exists at all, and that Underdark isn't just a bunch of empty caverns populated by Oboogoogoo territory markers.

User avatar
The GrumpyCat
Community Manager
Community Manager
Posts: 3098
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 5:47 pm

Re: Slavery System Feedback

Post by The GrumpyCat » Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:50 pm

There are some cracking thoughts here, some real gems that I'm taking away. But one post in particular resonated with me.
That said, let's talk about people who do want to RP playing a slave. If they're freed soon after being created they're not getting to play the character they want to play. It would be like making a cleric of Mask and another PC/player wanting to push a plot point where they convert them to Sune. While sure, the power of love conquering all could be a valid plot point it's probably vastly different than what the player of said cleric wanted to play. I wouldn't personally fault them for not wanting to go along with that. The player gets the final say so on their own character.

Edit: I'll also add in it is one of those areas where OOC communication is almost required. A slave and owner should probably know each other's play times, what is expected of them, etc. Planning to immediately overwrite their concept would be a pretty big thing to mention.
This is the tough one. Beceause on the one hand, we don't want it to be absolutly impossible for a slave to escape on their own. On the other, if a slave can escape 'on their own' then why don't they do so?
I think going forward we may need to
a) look at adding more complexities to slave escape, but also more ways others can help a slave escape.
b) Look at adding more 'stuff' for slaves in general. I'd love to see some more slave quarters.
c) One concern I do have (and I really hope that this is unwarrented - but would welcome peoples opinions ) is that now Outcast is behind a lock, we'll get a lot of people wanting to play 'Underdark Humans' just by taking the slave option, without care for the rp so much as just wanting to level down there, or something. I hope I'm wrong on this, but if I'm right we may need to think of some mechanical negatives to balence that out a bit. That said though - whilst I think mechanics can certainly help encourage good RP, they do not enforce it. So I'm unsure if the cost would be worth the outcome.
This too shall pass.

(I now have a DM Discord (I hope) It's DM GrumpyCat#7185 but please keep in mind I'm very busy IRL so I can't promise how quick I'll get back to you.)

User avatar
MissEvelyn
Arelith Silver Supporter
Arelith Silver Supporter
Posts: 927
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:43 pm
Location: East Coast

Re: Slavery System Feedback

Post by MissEvelyn » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:16 pm

Void wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:51 am
One of the possible reasons for slave ownership is to have someone stronger than you are who are unable to disobey for some reason. Due to being indoctrinated, brainwashed, or fearing for their life. It is pretty much a trope at this point --> weak master, powerful servant.

That's what the collar is for.
+1. This right here.

This is going to be an unpopular opinion, no doubt, but I believe slave PCs should earn experience points at a reduced rate, to represent the strenuous, indoctrinated lives they live.

As it is right now, on an equal play schedule, a human slave is always going to level faster than a Drow master by default, since the Drow has a higher ECL.

People who play slave PC do it because they actually want to invest time into the roleplay that comes with it. With how fast you can reach epic levels these days, it just doesn't make much sense to be a slave, when you can outpower your master in a matter of a few in-game months.

So, to represent not only the tedious and hard lives they lead, but also the limited amount of resources they have available as a slave, they should gain experience points at a drastically reduced rate.
Twily wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:09 am
Do you like Arelith existing?
If not, please just leave and move on with your life.

User avatar
Dr. B
Arelith Silver Supporter
Arelith Silver Supporter
Posts: 500
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:36 pm

Re: Slavery System Feedback

Post by Dr. B » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:27 pm

Drowboy wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:08 pm
I'm sure you mean well, but right at this moment the 'too many outcasts' rage is taking a clear turn into 'too many slaves' rage
Ironic, since it's not unusual for slaves to outnumber members of an upperclass.
Last edited by Dr. B on Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Drowboy
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:30 am

Re: Slavery System Feedback

Post by Drowboy » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:28 pm

since the Drow has a higher ECL.
No gifts? You people really live like this?
Archnon wrote: I like the idea of slaves and slavery.

Chosen Son
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:33 am

Re: Slavery System Feedback

Post by Chosen Son » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:32 pm

Do slaves not take two +2 ability gifts, bringing them to ecl parity with drow?

Post Reply