New Gods & Tweaks Bugs (The Thread!)

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ltlukoziuz
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Re: New Gods & Tweaks Bugs (The Thread!)

Post by ltlukoziuz » Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:20 am

Well, the way I see it, the restriction is there because you have actual powers to influence the worship of others and act as (pseudo)part of clergy - can hold ceremonies, can consecrate altars. And so it would be hard to expect character's and deity's alignments to differ much.

If you want to just be a simple worshipper, you don't need GoD. Any non-religious class can take any god, no matter alignment/race


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Red Ropes
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Re: New Gods & Tweaks Bugs (The Thread!)

Post by Red Ropes » Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:34 am

ltlukoziuz wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:20 am
Well, the way I see it, the restriction is there because you have actual powers to influence the worship of others and act as (pseudo)part of clergy - can hold ceremonies, can consecrate altars. And so it would be hard to expect character's and deity's alignments to differ much.

If you want to just be a simple worshipper, you don't need GoD. Any non-religious class can take any god, no matter alignment/race
Correct.
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Re: New Gods & Tweaks Bugs (The Thread!)

Post by Xerah » Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:31 pm

TheSandiestcomet wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:41 am
Ranger isn't a divine caster. So Gift of Devotion restricts me to one-step alignment deities? That's a little bit annoying, especially because it screws over people with the Gift who want to worship different deities.
As mentioned previously in the thread, if you were doing this before then it was a bug. GoH is effectively a cleric without taking the class.
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Re: New Gods & Tweaks Bugs (The Thread!)

Post by TheSandiestcomet » Fri Oct 01, 2021 3:02 am

Xerah wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:31 pm
TheSandiestcomet wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:41 am
Ranger isn't a divine caster. So Gift of Devotion restricts me to one-step alignment deities? That's a little bit annoying, especially because it screws over people with the Gift who want to worship different deities.
As mentioned previously in the thread, if you were doing this before then it was a bug. GoH is effectively a cleric without taking the class.
gotcha, that's fine, as long as it's not a bug now, I can work with it!
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fulminea
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Re: New Gods & Tweaks Bugs (The Thread!)

Post by fulminea » Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:39 am

Red Ropes wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:19 pm


Orc & Goblin Powers
Gruumsh = Orcs
Baghtru = Orcs
Ilneval = Orcs
Luthic = Orcs
Shargaas = Orcs
Yurtrus = Orcs - changed from nature to W&D, T&D
I wanted to bring up if Luthic should not perhaps also have the aspect nature? I think there is nothing more nature like than fertility and procreation and stuff. But I could be wrong. Also the wiki is still listing nature as yurtrus' second aspect.

Kalthariam
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Re: New Gods & Tweaks Bugs (The Thread!)

Post by Kalthariam » Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:01 am

So, are these changes not active on the PGCC? Or is the PGCC something that does not properly set deities?

I popped my kobold cleric over to the PGCC to mess around with making them a 17 Cleric 3 Sorcerer 10 RDD so that I can select the draconic deity I would like the character to worship, and despite being a cleric and having 10 RDD levels on the PGCC I am still unable to select a draconic deity.

Is this an issue with the PGCC?

The character is a Kobold Cleric Healer Path
The Alignment of the Character is TN
The Deity of choice is NG of the Draconic Pantheon Tamara (One Step - Check)
And the character would at this point have 10 Levels in RDD as outline would be mandatory for a cleric to have that wasn't a dragon or have the gift of devotion.

Obviously I made this change on the PGCC to test to ensure it'd be working before doing it in live, because of the changes that would be needed, so I'm just trying to see if there's an issue or if this is just PGCC stuff.

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Red Ropes
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Re: New Gods & Tweaks Bugs (The Thread!)

Post by Red Ropes » Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:18 pm

That should be working and did when I tested it last. I'll try and figure out why and if I do I'll package it in when I added the new eldritch patrons.
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Red Ropes
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Re: New Gods & Tweaks Bugs (The Thread!)

Post by Red Ropes » Sat Oct 30, 2021 4:41 pm

Above should be fixed when the contest stuff goes live.
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Re: New Gods & Tweaks Bugs (The Thread!)

Post by Kalthariam » Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:04 am

Thank you.

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Re: New Gods & Tweaks Bugs (The Thread!)

Post by Kalthariam » Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:04 am

So, I don't know if it was due to a recent update, but my character once again has their deity broken.

They are a TN kobold Cleric, I remade them to pick up the gift of devotion, and it worked, until the last update.

Now my deity is blank, altars to my god show up as concreted to "Another god" and when I try to reapply the deity to my character the book does not give me the option to do so.

Character is a TN Kobold Cleric
Gift of Devotion: Yes
Deity of Choice: Draconic Pantheon: Tamara (Neutral Good) Confirmed within one step.

My character can no longer worship the deity despite having all the requirements for such.

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Re: New Gods & Tweaks Bugs (The Thread!)

Post by Kalthariam » Sun Nov 14, 2021 1:38 am

Update:

So I had a chat with a DM to try to get the patron deity fixed.

It seems for some reason Tamara (Draconic Pantheon) is registering in the system as a Lawful Good Deity, and is only a valid Patron for Lawful Good, Neutral Good, and Lawful Neutral.

However, the in-game book, and all information on Tamara is showing her as a Neutral Good Deity, and should include being the patron of a TN Character. Including my TN character having had her as their Patron twice (Once before remake and the overhaul, and after the remake and overhaul having to pick up the Gift of Devotion) So I know she was properly flagged as NG as the book states before.

I'm not sure if this was an error? I'm just wondering if this can be looked into.

Not sure where the change came from, but since this is the thread for the deity overhaul, I thought I'd post the findings here in regards to what I learned talking with a DM.

Thank you.

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Red Ropes
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Re: New Gods & Tweaks Bugs (The Thread!)

Post by Red Ropes » Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:01 am

That is intended and was part of my ongoing project to fix errata.

Image
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Kalthariam
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Re: New Gods & Tweaks Bugs (The Thread!)

Post by Kalthariam » Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:22 pm

I'm confused as to why you would remove the Patronage of TN characters from a NG god? TN is fully within the 1 Step rule.

Or by Intended, do you mean that you are intending to make her Lawful good? Since that's what the game is currently tagging her, as per the dm I spoke to? Which that also would confuse me, because she's never been lawful good in any interpretation of the game.

Further.. if you look at the Forgotten Realms Wiki, which you have stated in this thread that most of the lore is based off the forgotten realms setting, Her Patronage is clearly showing as allowing for TN Clerics to be followers and have Tamara be their Patron god.

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Tamara

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To be honest, I'm more than just a little frustrated at this point, because earlier in the thread, you specifically directly told me that the only way I could continue my patronage of my deity, on my clearly stated TN Kobold Cleric, was to completely go through a remake and select the Gift of Devotion.

I did not want to have to remake my character to be able to simply continue worshipping the deity my character had been worshipping without issue since they were put into the game, but I ended up relenting and abandoned everything my character had and started over from scratch.

Now I find mid-way through releveling the character, the rules have changed again, without warning, and now it's starting to seem like I completely wasted quite a large chunk of not only the large amount of time invested in the original character, which I threw everything I owned away to start over due to wanting to continue my patronage of Tamara, but also completely wasted the time I spent re-leveling the character. Which I only did because I was directly told that if I wanted to continue my Patronage of Tamara on my TN Kobold, I had to do a remake of my character and take an otherwise, lets be honest, completely useless gift for a cleric.

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Red Ropes
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Re: New Gods & Tweaks Bugs (The Thread!)

Post by Red Ropes » Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:59 am

TN is not part of one step rule in 3.0 unless it is specifically an alignment on that god meant to be an exception (think Chauntea - NG, she has TN as a thing specifically because she has an aspect of her that is ancient, timeless and permissive. Where-as Corellons sun is NG but he is in NG, LG, CG only).

I get you are frustrated. But this is what it is and I am going to be sticking to whats in the books for the most part on things where we have actual references. Xerah, with no spit on him, put in the Draconic Pantheon using the wiki as a reference. As the curator for the vast enormity of our gods I am trying to 1) keep it as close to what is in the 3.5 period - with some deviation when it comes to stuff that was never really converted to 3x (non-Faerun content, things like beast cults, etc).

Tamara, as far as I can tell has no exception in all of the resources I encountered and looked up. It seems like an original position was placed there by FR wiki staff.

As for the Gift of Devotion and its use - not only is that incorrect as a position, it is the only thing that allows you to take racial deities as a divine class - thats part of its purpose as a gift. It's what would let you be a cleric of Tamara if you had an alignment in her acceptable categories of LG, NG, CG. It also ensures you maintain your piety gain as if you never had multi-classed if you do multi-class.

---

While you may have this character being TN in mind - you should really consider just changing that where it makes sense - or worshiping one of the deities in the Draconic Pantheon that has that as an acceptable alignment. While there are gatekeepers towards alignment, race and whatever for gods - your ability to write is almost entirely unhampered. Being a cleric of IO who does the will of IO and is a healer isn't strange, nor would you being a follower of IO who also seems to have a thing for Tamara be a problem - beyond being able to make altars of Tamara.

So really its up to you in this case - does your character have to be a TN Tamara follower or can you adapt it and feel comfortable?

On the topic of the writ change I don't really think XP has been changed so much that it got back to the "old days", there is content for every tier of a character's level range. It just emphasizes you doing low level content when low level and high level when high. I still think it is fast paced and juicy. Far juicier than it ever was.

I wish you well whatever the case.
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Re: New Gods & Tweaks Bugs (The Thread!)

Post by Kalthariam » Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:25 am

If this was your intention from the start, then why did you even direct me to remake the character earlier in the thread, which I stated from the start was a TN Kobold Cleric of Tamara in the thread, and take the Gift of Devotion?

Most of my frustration with this whole ordeal is due to the fact I was told: If I did a complete remake of the character, and took the Gift of Devotion, then I would be able to continue my patronage of Tamara, as it was before. There was no indication nor communication that there was going to change even further beyond that, that would end up making the entire effort an exercise in futility, and be stuck with a gift that now has no beneficial value to me, as it's literal only function to me was to allow me to pick Tamara as a patron, the cleric class has everything else already literally as part of the class, I'll probably end up having to completely remake the character once again.

Because if I'm going to just flat ignore the entire deity system, as you are basically suggesting, there's zero reason for me to waste a gift on a useless gift.

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Re: New Gods & Tweaks Bugs (The Thread!)

Post by Naghast » Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:57 am

...okay i'm generally trying to not be an arschloch, but Red, with all due respect
you talk /so much/ about things being canon or not in what you add. okay, i respect that. sticking to canon lore is cool, it prevents the entire thing from being a hot, smoking mess, having one source for how things are. just by itself, it's good.
then you run a creative writing contest to add a completely non-canon warlock patron to the game.
and like, don't get me wrong here. i think this writing contest, in itself, is a cool idea. i like it. i really do.
but now, put these two things right next to each other, look me in the eyes, and try to tell me it wouldn't feel like being repeatedly kicked in the nuts.

and before you explode on me or tell me that it's just because i was affected - no. i wasn't. not a single character i play was affected by deity changes in any way, shape, or form. at all.

also i do understand y'all are volunteers. i know that. hell, i'm a /patron/ after all. i don't pledge much since i don't make a lot of money just yet, but i do pitch in what i can pitch in, since, hell, with the amount of work all the devs put in, i think you deserve as much.

but just, come on.
that's all i have to say in this situation to be honest. and knowing things, this post will be stealth-deleted just like my previous one.

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Red Ropes
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Re: New Gods & Tweaks Bugs (The Thread!)

Post by Red Ropes » Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:21 pm

@Naghast in particular. I saw your initial post some time ago griping in the Warlock Patron contest. I was not responsible for its pruning but you are literally going "I am not trying to be an Snuggybear" and then proceeding to be an Snuggybear. That might be why it was removed. If you were trying to win me over with some heroic speech and pseudo-flattery you have absolutely failed in that regard.

I get it guys, I really do, you both really like kobolds and dragons.

But we have three kobold gods, several deities that interact with kobolds on a regular basis, the entire faerunian and zakharan pantheon, parts of the maztican one, and several fiends that can be worshiped in most normal fashion for kobolds. If you want to be a super unique kobold you can take the GoD and also follow a draconic deity, also perfectly fine. (Even if one of you thinks such a gift is useless.)

Dragon deities haven't even existed as an option for more than a year - and I have explained precisely what I did with them above as well as in SEVERAL posts throughout.

They weren't put in right and now they are.

I can understand why you guys feel the way you do but I definitely think it ranges in the absurd range and I think some people are being far too dramatic.

So in closing - Not a Bug. Do not post here if it is Not a Bug.

and maybe go outside and touch grass
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Re: New Gods & Tweaks Bugs (The Thread!)

Post by Sincra » Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:40 pm

I want to clarify a point here, eldritch powers are locked to hexblade, warlock and epic blackguard.
They do not function as other items in the system, not even a gift of devotion bypasses these restrictions.

It is also my understanding that setting wise they do not function in a deity manner and are a highly involved with the give/take dynamic, as opposed to the technically low level of involvment in the prayer and worship -> powers and effects dynamic of a standard god.
A good example of this is pacting to a fae of the winter court beneath the queen of air and darkness, you may then venerate the queen herself believing it to be who you pacted with but in reality it was a lesser fae the dealings were made with. Same for demons, devils, hags etc. They're a manifest entity, this allows some creative wiggle room I think.
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Re: New Gods & Tweaks Bugs (The Thread!)

Post by Kalthariam » Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:53 pm

"Maybe go outside and touch grass"

That's your take away from someone being upset they felt like they were bait and switched, and effectively wasted a massive chunk of their time due to undocumented and uncommunicated changes? After being directly advised to make these steps to begin with to be able to get what they wanted out of the system?

Cool. Yes, because clearly someone trying to have a discussion about something they care about, means they are a shut-in that doesn't go outside. Are you serious?

Well now I know not to waste my time in the future attempting to have a discussion about anything.

Also in the future: If you plan on continuing to make massive changes past a large update. It'd come off far better if you do not tell people to remake their characters until after all the changes are settled, or at least communicate to people that further changes are going to be planned in the future and maybe hold off on doing anything drastic till everything's done.

That way players time feels like it's being respected and not completely blown off and treated like nothing.

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Red Ropes
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Re: New Gods & Tweaks Bugs (The Thread!)

Post by Red Ropes » Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:19 pm

Kalthariam wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:53 pm
"Maybe go outside and touch grass"

That's your take away from someone being upset they felt like they were bait and switched, and effectively wasted a massive chunk of their time due to undocumented and uncommunicated changes? After being directly advised to make these steps to begin with to be able to get what they wanted out of the system?

Cool. Yes, because clearly someone trying to have a discussion about something they care about, means they are a shut-in that doesn't go outside. Are you serious?

Well now I know not to waste my time in the future attempting to have a discussion about anything.

Also in the future: If you plan on continuing to make massive changes past a large update. It'd come off far better if you do not tell people to remake their characters until after all the changes are settled, or at least communicate to people that further changes are going to be planned in the future and maybe hold off on doing anything drastic till everything's done.

That way players time feels like it's being respected and not completely blown off and treated like nothing.
ok

edit:

i've decided to lock this thread since it is not being used for appropriate channels of communication and there are no known longstanding issues
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