Armed Monk Bugs Megathread

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Llopast
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Armed Monk Bugs Megathread

Post by Llopast » Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:52 am

Bug № 1: Armed Monks get no bonus DMG from Ki Strike 4/5 feat or 20/24 monk lvls
Description:
Ki Strike 4 & 5 feats as well as respective 20/24 monk levels do not grant bonus armed damage. Only AB and an enchantment bonus.

Steps to reproduce:
Take a Ki Strike 4/5 feat or a 20/24 monk lvls.

Expected result:
+1 Dmg: Ki Strike 4 OR 20+ lvls of Monk
+2 Dmg: Ki Strike 5 OR 24+ lvls of Monk

Actual result:
+0 Dmg: Ki Strike 4 OR 20+ lvls of Monk
+0 Dmg: Ki Strike 5 OR 24+ lvls of Monk

Bug № 2: Bonus AB & DMG from Ki Strike 4/5 feat and 20/24 monk lvls stack
Description:
Bonus AB & DMG from Ki Strike 4/5 feat and 20/24 monk lvls stack despite the description on the wiki (exception: DMG bonus from armed combat mastery; see Bug #1):
"Monk Weapons gain the following bonuses at different marks, the bonuses do not stack with each other:
+1 Dmg: Ki Strike 4 OR 20+ lvls of Monk
+1 AB: Ki Strike 4 OR 23+ lvls of Monk
+2 Dmg: Ki Strike 5 OR 24+ lvls of Monk
+2 AB: Ki Strike 5 OR 25+ lvls of Monk"

Steps to reproduce:
Take Ki Strike 4/5 feats and a 20/24 monk lvls. Equip a weapon. Equip a Candle of the Ultimate Power (see Bug № 4).

Expected result:
The bonuses do not stack with each other.

Actual result:
They do stack.

Bug № 3: Monk's free Whirlwind feat secretly makes it easier to take a WM class
Description:
Upon reaching lvl 12 as a monk alongside with the Whirlwind feat you secretly get the Spring Attack feat for the purposes of the Weapon Master requirements. You do not see it in your feat list, nor you actually have it working, but on lvl 13 you may take WM levels as long as you have: dodge, mobility, expertise, weapon focus (in a melee weapon), lvl 12 Monk, intimidate 4.

Steps to reproduce:
Take dodge, mobility, expertise, weapon focus (in a melee weapon), lvl 12 Monk (= free Whirlwind + secret free Spring Attack), intimidate 4.
Take WM class on level 13.

Expected result:
You should not be able to do that.

Actual result:
You are able to do that.

Bug № 4: "Candle Power!"
Description:
A candle equipped with a 1H Monastic weapon grants unarmed Combat Mastery bonus to AB & DMG in addition to the weapon Combat Mastery AB bonus (but not DMG bonus; see Bug #1 above).

Steps to reproduce:
Equip any 1H monastic weapon, then equip a Candle or a torch as a lvl 10 Monk or higher.

Expected result:
RP expectations only

Actual result:
You get full unarmed AB & DMG bonus + armed AB bonus according to the Combat Mastery table: https://wiki.nwnarelith.com/Monk
Level Unarmed Ab Unarmed Dmg Armed Ab Armed Dmg
10 0 +1 0 0
13 +1 +1 0 0
16 +1 +2 0 0
18 +2 +2 0 0
20 +2 +3 0 +1
23 +2 +3 +1 +1
24 +3 +3 +1 +2
25 +3 +3 +2 +2
28 +5 +6 +3 +3

Bonus materials:

You get 1 AB less if you equip a candle first and then a weapon.

If you unequip a candle you can go into a 2H mode while the bug still works and, thus, you get +3 DMG on top (assuming that you wield a katana, you have 10 base STR & you have 12 soft STR)

Summary:
With a 25 Monk & any 5 full BAB class build you can reach 47-49 AB and finally play an armed monk that does not suck too much (still weaker than spellswords ... and vigilante ... and paladins... and arcane archers... you got the idea).
For example, combined with Bugs № 2 + №3 + № 4: [25 Monk/ 5 WM] build reaches 48 AB (with ESkF: Disc) or 49 AB (with Ki Strike 4 instead of ESkF: Disc). The damage is relatively the same as for an unarmed monk. You have 4 base attacks instead of 6, DMG per hit is higher though.

History of the bugs
I have been experimenting with armed monk builds for more than a year now. The initial goal was to find an RP armed monk build which would not lack too much in comparison to an unarmed version. FYI: Candle power had to be discovered simply because my character has been carrying a candle for like 1,5 RL years RP-wise. Fate was involved here without a doubt :)

Firstly, I have discovered the Bug № 4 (about half year ago). Initially the bug worked with 2H weapons and did not require a candle. So you could flex with a Nodachi. Then other bugs one by one were discovered and reported to Kenji personally/ on forums.
Kenji has done his best to fix them (2H weapons do not trigger the bug anymore), but at some point, I believe, other developer tasks came in. Still great thanks to him for his involvement.

Kind Suggestions
I play the described [25 Monk/ 5 WM] katana build for several months now under an unofficial permission from Kenji that I do not PVP with it. However it is illegal, in my experience it is not OP by any means. It is simply good & fun.
What I would suggest instead of wasting bazzilion hours fixing all those bugs and making armed monks suck again is to just make the described features legal by adding a Spring attack free feat/ editing wiki (about stacking)/ showing some love to 2H weapons once again.
Think about it: in the worst case you will get 50-51 AB monks with Nodachi. The dmg is not going to be deadly. Survivability is exactly the same as the unarmed monk has.

Feel free to contact me in discord or simply watch the build in action as I do the dungeons. Character's name is Lutien Ivae.

With regards,
Vasily

"The terrible thing is not that you were deceived or robbed, but that you constantly remember this."
Discord: Llopast#6196

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Llopast
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:20 am

Re: Armed Monk Bugs Megathread

Post by Llopast » Mon Mar 13, 2023 2:09 pm

Addition to bug #1: Ki Strike feats do not grant nor AB, nor DMG to the weapons at all. Only enchantment bonuses.
Unless you use the Candle Power, of course. In this case you receive AB only still (???).

Bug № 5: Ki Strike 4 & 5 feats bug the unarmed Combat Mastery for additional bugged armed DMG
Description:
Ki Strike 4 & 5 feats make the game think that you are lvl 20/24 Monk and gives you bugged bonus damage according to the armed & unarmed Combat mastery progression.
Works only with the Candle Power (see Bug #4 above).

Steps to reproduce:
Take a Ki Strike 4 feat while you have =16 Monk levels. Equip any 1H traditional monastic weapon. Equip a Candle of the Ultimate Power.
Take a Ki Strike 5 feat while you have =16 Monk levels. Equip any 1H traditional monastic weapon. Equip a Candle of the Ultimate Power.

Expected result:
+1 AB & +1 DMG according to the Ki Strike 4 feat description.
+1 AB & +1 DMG according to the Ki Strike 5 feat description (+2/+2 in total with Ki Strike 4 & 5).

Actual result: @
For Ki Strike 4:
+1 AB according to the Ki Strike 4 feat description;
+1 DMG according to the Ki Strike 4 feat description.
+1 DMG from the armed Combat Mastery progression due to to the game thinking that you are at least level 20 Monk;
+1 DMG from the unarmed Combat Mastery progression due to the game thinking that you are at least level 24 Monk (+3 instead of +2 bugged bonus at 16 monk level, for example. You cannot take Ki Strike feat if you do not have 16 Monk).
For a total of +1 armed AB & +3 armed DMG with only Ki Strike 4.

For Ki Strike 5:
+1 AB according to the Ki Strike 5 feat description;
+1 DMG according to the Ki Strike 5 feat description;
+1 DMG from the armed Combat Mastery progression due to to the game thinking that you are at least level 24 Monk;
+0 DMG from the unarmed Combat Mastery progression due to the game thinking that you are at least level 24 Monk.
For a total of +1 armed AB & +2 armed DMG with only Ki Strike 5 (+2/+5 in total with Ki Strike 4 & 5).

Misc Notes:
lvl 16 Monk without Ki Strike feats armed with Katana only gets +0 damage
lvl 16 Monk without Ki Strike feats armed with Katana & the Candle gets +2 damage
lvl 16 Monk with Ki Strike 4 feat armed with Katana & the Candle gets +5 damage
lvl 16 Monk with Ki Strike 4 & 5 feats armed with Katana & the Candle gets +7 damage

lvl 25 Monk without Ki Strike feats armed with Katana only gets +0 damage
lvl 25 Monk without Ki Strike feats armed with Katana & the Candle gets +3 damage
lvl 25 Monk with Ki Strike 4 feat armed with Katana & the Candle gets +5 damage
lvl 25 Monk with Ki Strike 4 & 5 feats armed with Katana & the Candle gets +7 damage

@ It is a theory. I do not know how exactly your code works. At least, it explains the resulting numbers.
Update: Honestly, looking at the 16/25 Monk numbers I am now a little bit confused about how it all stacks.

P.S. I discovered it today while trying to come up with a non-bugged armed monk build which would not suck.

"The terrible thing is not that you were deceived or robbed, but that you constantly remember this."
Discord: Llopast#6196

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Kenji
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Re: Armed Monk Bugs Megathread

Post by Kenji » Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:14 am

These bugs may no longer be applicable with the coming monk rework.

:face_with_monocle:

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