Druid Dragon vs Elemental Shapes

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Beard Master Flex
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Druid Dragon vs Elemental Shapes

Post by Beard Master Flex » Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:19 pm

Could someone with more mechanical know-how then I explain to me why the Dragonshapes are so terrible?

Even after the nerfs I still thought they were pretty good - AB in the mid to high 50's for Red Dragon and AC in the low to high 60's depending on which dragon you go with... damage is mediocre.

However after applying it in practice they seem pretty terrible vs a lot of the bosses which I can defeat more easily with the Elemental shapes. I cant think of a single situation where I would choose a dragon over an elemental.

I assume the lack of Critical Immunity and DR is the real kicker?

xanrael
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Re: Druid Dragon vs Elemental Shapes

Post by xanrael » Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:45 pm

Dragon shape can be reasonably be achieved by a druid taking a dip in another class so it might be better to compare to an elder instead of monolith form.

It's not a one-size-fits-all shape like elemental shape but there are some cases it can perform decently well (used it for landing some clutch KDs in the past). There also used to be ways to get absolutely insane AC with it (parry etc), not sure if those still apply.

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Glowing Mushroom
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Re: Druid Dragon vs Elemental Shapes

Post by Glowing Mushroom » Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:02 am

Dragonshape has its applications, but mostly in PvE for boss fights. Especially due to its size and limited uses you won't be shifting to it very often.

It's supposed to have See Invisibility, but it doesn't. I still think it should simply have True Seeing since its applications are already so limited. Against a KD or crit build in PvP, Dragonshape is a death sentence. If TS seems OP, then put Dragonshape on a Cooldown.

I also think it really needs some natural form of DR. It's a true shift and you have actual dragon scales - You should get DR.

You can actually inspect the staff weapon that the shapes use. When absolutely fully buffed, dragonshape does perfectly average damage, despite canonically being one of the absolute most powerful things a druid can achieve. The breath weapons are also completely for show as the damage in PvE takes a full round to complete for average output and in PvP it is entirely useless.

Dragonshape could certainly use some delicate buffs and a CD if we're worried about things like TS being abused in and out. Perhaps something like increased CD timers if the shape is used too often in succession.

Aside from all this - It's still applicable. It does fantastic in just about any PvE fight and especially boss fights. If you really know your opponent you can safely use it to PvP so long as you have summons out. But the amount of times these situations will likely appear is a fraction compared to the ones that do not apply to DS. In fact you will see people use DS more often for RP purposes than actual combat, PvE or PvP.

I would 100% not recommend trying to create a build around DS as it is limited use and its giant size makes that limited use even more limited.

Save DS for some fun boss fights or PvP that you know for a fact you can safely get away with shifting to it.
Burin the Earthly.

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Hazard
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Re: Druid Dragon vs Elemental Shapes

Post by Hazard » Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:34 am

^

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Jagel
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Re: Druid Dragon vs Elemental Shapes

Post by Jagel » Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:30 pm

Dragon shape is not at all terrible. It completely pales when compared to monoliths: limited uses, average damage, useless breath as the posters above remarked. Teching into staff feats (weapon focus, imp. crit) can help and multiclassing can also improve further (weapon spec. for instance) but multiclassing means no monolith and that’s a baaad trade-off.

To me it would make more sense if dragon shape was the be all end all shape and monoliths a versatile mid epic-thing. Right now dragon shape is something you use levels 25-28 and once you get monoliths you probably don’t use it except for flavor or very specific situations.

chris a gogo
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Re: Druid Dragon vs Elemental Shapes

Post by chris a gogo » Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:47 pm

You will never fight as a dragon against anything remotely dangerous, In the past when monks dips and AC tied into dragon shape it ment druid monks were common place and strong tanks.
Of course this wasn't popular with sections of the playerbase and as a result the Dragon shapes were nerfed, then the combination of monk/druid was destroyed(not a bad thing to my mind), as they no longer synergize you don't get monk AC or UAB.
But that came after the dragon shape was rendered useless to anyone not playing a monk druid, and then left as it was meaning there is no point taking a dip class as a druid because you will lose mono elemental shape.
They also removed the requirements for getting dragon shape and just made you go to a place to get it when your high enough level but really the shapes are terrible and not worth using for anything other than flavor or walking around open low level areas with no trees/ doors in the way.

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