Is Open Lock/Disable Trap basically redundant? Or am I mistaken

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TheBlueWizard
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Is Open Lock/Disable Trap basically redundant? Or am I mistaken

Post by TheBlueWizard » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:30 pm

So, yeh. As the title says.

Been playing my Halfling Cleric of Brandobaris again, a fun character. My intentions for him were to always attempt to be some kind of burglar who was able to break into quarters, mess around a bit, leave a note or something, rearrange furniture, etc... and have a laugh.
Basically having some fun going in line with the skillsets/dogma (to some extent) of his god.

Didn't really research too much on aspects of the servers mechanics before making him months ago, because I wasn't too sure how much I'd enjoy playing the character. I then took a break from playing due to a lack of time irl.

Coming back after my mini hiatus and replaying him however, I decided to do some research.

And lo, I found out that the actual DC you need to beat in order to get into peoples quarters is a whopping 127. 127! An absolutely ludicrous, impossible DC to beat with the kind of low magic setting of Arelith, unless I'm very much mistaken. I messed around on the PGCC in attempt to see if remaking him would still allow me to fulfil my ambition for him being a comedy burglar, but sadly I could barely reach the DC for the lock. Never mind the fact I didn't even factor in the Search and Disable Trap roll's needed, too. I'm not too great at character builds, and I'm not au fait with every item in game, so I could be wrong in believing it's a near impossibility to reach.

So, the thing I kinda want to understand is two-fold I suppose;

1.) why are the DC's on quarters so high?

2.) can you even make a burglar style character. Is the entire skill of OL/DD pointless?


I can kinda understand the high DC for quarters and things in terms of not wanting them to be abused and easily broken in to all the time, and people constantly feeling like their quarters are never safe. But still. 127 seems such a ridiculous number to me. Especially when combined with a permanent trap of equal DC, that needs an equal Search level to even spot (unless I'm wrong on that) Like, there's no way in hell I can imagine an actual Rogue hitting that. As in your classic, go-to Rogue burglar character who wants to make his money from stealing from others, rather than risking going out and bashing monsters. Never mind my character who is a Cleric with access to the Trickery Domain for an added boost.

The actual DC, to my eyes anyway makes that kinda Rogue RP/skill utterly redundant to all intents and purposes. Doesn't this limit the potential for some kind of Thieves Guild faction to even get work from others as burglars and house breakers? Y'know, act as a guild that could work so well by being employed by other factions who are in conflict, each wanting to break into the others bases.

Was it kind of a rife issue back in the past that peoples quarters were never safe, which prompted such a high DC? Or has it always been this way from day one? Is it currently even possible to actually play a Rogue kind of character as a burglar? I've only managed to briefly own some quarters once with a previous character, but even then I felt that the actual cost associated with improving a quarters lock was so minimal when you factor in how godly the eventual DC can reach. Didn't really feel like there was any actual downside to upgrading your lock to a godly level.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying this in any kind of salty rage of "god, why can't I ever break into everyone's home?!". It's more just curiosity at this point about the why and how for the mechanics being as they are. Is it otherwise too easy to beat, say, a 90-100 DC? Couldn't we do something like make ESF: Open Lock an Epic Rogue exclusive ability that essentially makes them the only people capable of breaking into places? Or ... I dunno. You can't even use a Lock Pick on quarters, to add insult to roguish injury.

I did do a little bit of research on the forums, but usually ran into more people discussing the issue in other terms. Like, how, for the most part, OL is easy to access with Familiars. Or 1 point in it, plus exclusive gear to switch into, beats most dungeon locks etc... Couldn't seem to find an answer to why quarter locks have such high DC's. So sorry if this is an issue that's been discussed to death. I may be wrong, but I even got the impression that it's massively frowned upon to even make a character who can break into other players properties.

Thoughts? Clarification for a confused idiot?

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Re: Is Open Lock/Disable Trap basically redundant? Or am I mistaken

Post by Drowboy » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:43 pm

The DCs are high because this type of RP isn't fun for anyone, generally. For every one person like you with fun intentions, there's a handful of people that want to break quarters to basically grief people. Back when it was first introduced, people would make teams to do this (this still happens), and then march in with a pile of people and empty out people's quarters.

So if for every 1 interaction with this type of thief (Which, I'm sorry, will STILL get tiring after, well, the first one) where you have to hunt down your stuff, have no real way of forcing them to give it back, etc, you get a handful of 'someone broke into my quarter and stole a stack of x thing, so now my time is wasted and there's no way to unwaste it, cool, great, I'm upping my locks to max, then.'

I'd imagine the majority of people would rather you Couldn't get into people's quarters that way, in fact.
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Re: Is Open Lock/Disable Trap basically redundant? Or am I mistaken

Post by TheBlueWizard » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:06 pm

Drowboy wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:43 pm
The DCs are high because this type of RP isn't fun for anyone, generally. For every one person like you with fun intentions, there's a handful of people that want to break quarters to basically grief people. Back when it was first introduced, people would make teams to do this (this still happens), and then march in with a pile of people and empty out people's quarters.

So if for every 1 interaction with this type of thief (Which, I'm sorry, will STILL get tiring after, well, the first one) where you have to hunt down your stuff, have no real way of forcing them to give it back, etc, you get a handful of 'someone broke into my quarter and stole a stack of x thing, so now my time is wasted and there's no way to unwaste it, cool, great, I'm upping my locks to max, then.'

I'd imagine the majority of people would rather you Couldn't get into people's quarters that way, in fact.

Fair enough, true. I can imagine how god awful and not fun it would be to constantly be getting your stuff stolen all the time. Especially when it's done with basically just grieving in mind, and not any actual discernible RP.

I dunno. I feel like there could be RP there. But again, it'd be a struggle to come up with a way that would allow players to maybe have fun being able to break into quarters and policing that for being used for RP purposes and not just abusing it to steal and grief people.

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Re: Is Open Lock/Disable Trap basically redundant? Or am I mistaken

Post by Drowboy » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:10 pm

The 'balance' tradeoff they have is, basically, mega high locks. If you want to let people rob you stupid, you drop your DCs. If you want to get around people who don't want that, well, you get used to people hating you on a really personal ooc level, I guess.

The solution, to me at least, is dummy houses where you can steal player-esque stuff, but from like, npcs or whatever. Elder Scrolls lockbreaking, basically.
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Re: Is Open Lock/Disable Trap basically redundant? Or am I mistaken

Post by Hinty » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:27 pm

There is virtually 0 good RP to be had from breaking into peoples homes.

If someone is storing a plot crucial item in their room and you break in and steal it, there is some RP to be had from working out who needs the item and might have taken it. This sort of thing can be facilitated by DMs tho so the mechanics are moot.

Even just a cat bugler who breaks into peoples rooms to steal items on rare occasions (purposely doing it sparsely to not upset people) how are other players supposed to work with that? There is no way to find out who it was. The only way to catch someone is to be there WHEN IT HAPPENS, after the fact, there are no clues, no hints, no ways to search a suspect, no way to reclaim the item even if you know who took it...

While it is possible to make good RP from it, virtually every use of it will be at best an annoying non event for everyone but the thief, and often outright frustrating and upsetting.

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Re: Is Open Lock/Disable Trap basically redundant? Or am I mistaken

Post by cantalyssa » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:46 pm

1.) why are the DC's on quarters so high?
If you ask me, nothing good comes from breaking into players houses, even under the guise of leaving a note or moving furniture around. If you could break in easily, there would be rampant abuse of it. Players already skirt rules as much as they can to begin with, for instance, if breaking quarters was easy there'd be multiple characters just parked in residence blocks to go steal an item once every 24 hours.

It's not fun for anyone except the thief - who can gain massive amounts of money at other players expense and there's little to no counterplay/interaction between the two parties (really only if the thief WANTS to be caught).

Nothing is worse in my opinion than going through proper RP to gain something only to have it stolen from you with none of it.

Example: You and your friends have been out and about finding reagents for your local wizard who has been employing you for the past two weeks real time. You've finally saved up enough to purchase that shiny new adamantine bracer of whatever and have one made. You're unable to equip it, so you put it in your quarter for safe keeping. You wake up the next morning and it's gone, never to be seen again and there's literally nothing you can do about it! Such great RP, at least you have the true treasure which can't be stolen - the experience of going through the process of getting the item over the last two weeks or so with your friends!

This example can be changed according to your playstyle - i.e if you just grind mobs or if you make your money through RP services, the end results are the same - you losing something you've had to RP for, with no RP.

2.) can you even make a burglar style character. Is the entire skill of OL/DD pointless?
As for open lock/disable device being pointless depends - if you only want to break into other people's quarters.. then I would say don't bother, but I'm obviously biased.

If you invest into it you get to open chests and remove the traps that usually guard them. Doing this instead of bashing them means you get the real loots. Obviously you can get away with only 1 point in each (crossclassing included), but doing that means you've got an entire set of gear that you switch out every time you run up to a chest.

Hope my opinion helps

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Re: Is Open Lock/Disable Trap basically redundant? Or am I mistaken

Post by Gouge Away » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:57 pm

I've long thought quarters and storage locks need to be separated. Put reasonable locks on quarters and strong or even unbreakable locks on the chests inside. Breaking in to prank, ambush, spy, snoop on message boards etc IS fun and good for RP, it's the theft that's the biggest problem.

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Re: Is Open Lock/Disable Trap basically redundant? Or am I mistaken

Post by Eira » Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:08 pm

Gouge Away wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:57 pm
I've long thought quarters and storage locks need to be separated. Put reasonable locks on quarters and strong or even unbreakable locks on the chests inside. Breaking in to prank, ambush, spy, snoop on message boards etc IS fun and good for RP, it's the theft that's the biggest problem.
This would be great. Lock the chests, make the door easier.

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Re: Is Open Lock/Disable Trap basically redundant? Or am I mistaken

Post by AstralUniverse » Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:46 pm

It is very much within the realms of possibility to break into quarters. The DC is set to just the right degree that it is possible for:

1. combination of two characters, one of which needs to be a bard and the other needs to be a dex based open locker with every feat and gear slot used to boost.

2. One of several specific bard and cleric builds which arent really good at much else besides being buff bots and breaking into quarters, and they can only do that in late epics and are a nightmare to get to that point. But they dont need a buddy to sing for them.

This is actually good because it means breaking into quarters is possible, but that no one will ever make a character just for that unless it's a realy core part of their concept (and if it is, chances are they are looking to make it inclusive and interactive, otherwise why bother with a crappy build).

That's my two cents on quarters.
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Re: Is Open Lock/Disable Trap basically redundant? Or am I mistaken

Post by The GrumpyCat » Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:11 pm

Eira wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:08 pm
Gouge Away wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:57 pm
I've long thought quarters and storage locks need to be separated. Put reasonable locks on quarters and strong or even unbreakable locks on the chests inside. Breaking in to prank, ambush, spy, snoop on message boards etc IS fun and good for RP, it's the theft that's the biggest problem.
This would be great. Lock the chests, make the door easier.
I agree, this idea is awsome. It would involve a major overhaul, but personaly I adore this.
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Re: Is Open Lock/Disable Trap basically redundant? Or am I mistaken

Post by Nevrus » Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:31 pm

+1 to pro-snoop anti-theft, would get everyone that's not griefing what they want.
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Re: Is Open Lock/Disable Trap basically redundant? Or am I mistaken

Post by ReverentBlade » Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:41 pm

The GrumpyCat wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:11 pm
Eira wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:08 pm
Gouge Away wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:57 pm
I've long thought quarters and storage locks need to be separated. Put reasonable locks on quarters and strong or even unbreakable locks on the chests inside. Breaking in to prank, ambush, spy, snoop on message boards etc IS fun and good for RP, it's the theft that's the biggest problem.
This would be great. Lock the chests, make the door easier.
I agree, this idea is awsome. It would involve a major overhaul, but personaly I adore this.
Fixture theft is just as annoying.

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Re: Is Open Lock/Disable Trap basically redundant? Or am I mistaken

Post by msterswrdsmn » Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:34 am

Usually stuff that goes stolen isn't stuff in the chests, but the message boards, bookshelves, or other things with IG notes, from my experience.

You -can- build to break into quarters, but its a very, very specialized build. I've only seen maybe 1 or 2 people do it, and they still required help from a bard at times. That said, if something -can- be broken into, you'd best believe things will disappear constantly until you either give up on replacing stuff or just jack the locks up to impossible levels.

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Re: Is Open Lock/Disable Trap basically redundant? Or am I mistaken

Post by Hinty » Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:52 am

Eh. Not a fan of the snoop thing either.

When someone can walk into a near empty room, then stand there completely undetectable out in the open while you talk to your friend about some important secret, yeah, that sucks.

Sure, they can use True Seeing! They shouldn't need to.

No where to hide? Then you shouldn't be able to hide.

"Oh but I'm a shadow dancer! I can manipulate shadows!"

Ok. Cool. And what makes you think people wouldn't notice if they were stood in a well lit room with a man sized patch of impenetrable shadow, far darker than any other shadow in the room, right beside them with nothing to cast it?

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Re: Is Open Lock/Disable Trap basically redundant? Or am I mistaken

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:21 pm

I think there should be a "someone is in the quarter" Open Lock DC cap, and a "no one is home" Open Lock DC cap.

The "no one is home" can be the standard 127 or whatever.

The "someone's home" could be significantly lower, like maybe DC 90? 80? Sure, you can break in, but you have to deal with the occupants.

People don't like getting their stuff stolen, sure, but the flipside is that all quarters have become impregnable fortresses that promote safe, exclusive, and mindnumbing roleplay. The fact quarters are the safest places in the entire sever is a problem.
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Re: Is Open Lock/Disable Trap basically redundant? Or am I mistaken

Post by Scurvy Cur » Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:39 am

AstralUniverse wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:46 pm
This is actually good because it means breaking into quarters is possible, but that no one will ever make a character just for that unless it's a realy core part of their concept (and if it is, chances are they are looking to make it inclusive and interactive, otherwise why bother with a crappy build).

That's my two cents on quarters.
My own experience across ~14 years on this server during which our core quarter lock mechanics have not changed much (we got pickable/bashable quarter locks in 2006) suggests that this statement is incorrect.

Over the course of that time, I've had a quarter broken into and something stolen 5 times. Of those 5 times, I have gotten 1 piece of "evidence" to roleplay off of. That one piece of evidence was useful only insofar as it nicely framed a party that OOCly I know was not really directly involved, but was pretty useless otherwise. The other 4 times, someone just helped themselves to the most valuable item in my chest.

Nor am I isolated in this. A quick and informal poll of the people I'm in regular OOC contact suggests that my experience is the norm, rather than the exception. One friend in particular had an irreplaceable keepsake item vanish completely without RP or notice given, and what roleplay happened didn't do so until the DM team stepped in to force the thief to generate some roleplay around the theft. The process took about a month, and I've got no doubt that, absent DM intercession, there never would have been roleplay with the victim. These are people that play across every part of the server, since I've played just about everywhere at some point by now, so this isn't an isolated environment issue.

A side issue I've observed lately is that, since these characters have a very limited niche and are only useful when paired with a second character, the way they most often seem to be played at the moment is: level one, leave it in your vault, log onto the character when one of your friends wants to break in somewhere.

Relatedly, the suggestion about making quarters easier to break into and chests impossible to break into is a good one, provided fixture theft is also prohibited within quarters (and also provided that the chest DC is not 127, it's literally unbreakable). It removes the RPless plundering of chests, but opens up the field to spying/infiltration/etc. It would shut down the parts of housebreaking that amount to RPless griefing, while expanding on its availability as a tool for the more interactive, face-to-face aspects of the feature, and make quarters generally less safe.


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Re: Is Open Lock/Disable Trap basically redundant? Or am I mistaken

Post by AstralUniverse » Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:37 pm

Scurvy Cur wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:39 am
Nor am I isolated in this. A quick and informal poll of the people I'm in regular OOC contact suggests that my experience is the norm, rather than the exception. One friend in particular had an irreplaceable keepsake item vanish completely without RP or notice given, and what roleplay happened didn't do so until the DM team stepped in to force the thief to generate some roleplay around the theft. The process took about a month, and I've got no doubt that, absent DM intercession, there never would have been roleplay with the victim. These are people that play across every part of the server, since I've played just about everywhere at some point by now, so this isn't an isolated environment issue.

A side issue I've observed lately is that, since these characters have a very limited niche and are only useful when paired with a second character, the way they most often seem to be played at the moment is: level one, leave it in your vault, log onto the character when one of your friends wants to break in somewhere.
Fair.

Wasnt my experience but maybe I just dont play characters that are known as rich who hoard things at home.

I wouldnt mind having the chest's DC on 127 and the door's DC on something lower than 121 as per the suggestion, but entirely theft free environment?
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Re: Is Open Lock/Disable Trap basically redundant? Or am I mistaken

Post by ReverentBlade » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:31 pm

I've never gotten any theft RP past a "haha I ganked your stuff" note on the door. Always anon, of course.

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Re: Is Open Lock/Disable Trap basically redundant? Or am I mistaken

Post by Skibbles » Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:04 pm

As others have said almost in universal agreement: what sounds like fun to you is probably going to upset just about everyone.

Even rearranging the furniture for a laugh could (read: almost certainly would) be felt as toxic. Arranging fixtures in a home can take hours if you're really trying to do it right and make it look nice. Then for someone to break in and move it all around would be awful for that player who will want nothing to do with you no matter what RP hooks you're throwing.

As ReverentBlade pointed out - adjusting chest locks to be harder and doors to be easier is just going to be a fixture theft nightmare which already is something I am generally, and very openly, disgusted by.
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Re: Is Open Lock/Disable Trap basically redundant? Or am I mistaken

Post by Scurvy Cur » Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:23 pm

AstralUniverse wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:37 pm

Wasnt my experience but maybe I just dont play characters that are known as rich who hoard things at home.
Very subtle way to say "Have you considered it's your fault that you were robbed?". Nice.

What you're missing is that quarter thieves do not just target "rich hoarders". Since anyone running the quarter thief duo can basically loot any quarter completely at will, it's not that uncommon for them to just roll through an area and take 1 item from every quarter. It's risk free if they follow the simple expedient of checking the owner's name against the playerlist, which is pretty impossible to catch.

In every instance in which I was burgled, save one, the item that was stolen was of trivial value, because the character that got robbed was a poor nobody.

And yes, I'm entirely in favor of an environment in which looting quarters for items/fixtures is impossible. It remains, perplexingly, the one form of PvP in which no face-to-face interaction is required beforehand. I'm not sure why breaking into someone's quarter and removing their GP with no roleplay beyond leaving a note that says "haha thx for ur stuff" is ok, but breaking into someone's face and removing their HP with no roleplay beyond leaving a note that says "haha thx for ur skull" isn't.
Last edited by Scurvy Cur on Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Is Open Lock/Disable Trap basically redundant? Or am I mistaken

Post by AstralUniverse » Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:27 pm

Scurvy Cur wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:23 pm
Very subtle way to say "Have you considered it's your fault that you were robbed?". Nice.
Unintended. I just rarely got robbed and I'd say for me at least 40% of those times there was a note in the chest or a fixture in the room that wasnt mine. I dont think it's your fault that you've had a different experience.

Edit:
Scurvy Cur wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:23 pm
It remains, perplexingly, the one form of PvP in which no face-to-face interaction is required beforehand. I'm not sure why breaking into someone's quarter and removing their GP with no roleplay beyond leaving a note that says "haha thx for ur stuff" is ok, but breaking into someone's face and removing their HP with no roleplay beyond leaving a note that says "haha thx for ur skull" isn't.
It's a pretty good point there.
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Re: Is Open Lock/Disable Trap basically redundant? Or am I mistaken

Post by Hinty » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:32 pm

I am going to have to fight very hard not to make an assassin whose trade mark is leaving a note on the body saying "haha thx for ur skull" now.

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Re: Is Open Lock/Disable Trap basically redundant? Or am I mistaken

Post by TheBlueWizard » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:21 pm

I suppose from reading all the replies so far from older players and the like it kinda shows my naivety on the whole issue. I'm a casual, one or two hours here there kind of player, so I don't get a lot of time to understand the proper workings of the server and stuff.

For me I was generally interested in making a character who would break into quarters to play pranks. Often very obvious that it was him, or some form of follower of Brandobaris that was the culprit. All done with the intention of RP that can come afterwards. I enjoy playing characters who act a bit daft, break a few laws or something, but always for fun. I even enjoy the RP that comes from getting caught and stuff.

But hey, guessing that people breaking into quarters is more done out of a desire for just nicking items rather than attempting to generate some RP.

I do think some of the suggestions other people have said are great, and could generally help generate some kind of RP. Seems a bit daft to me personally that peoples quarters are basically their own fortresses of solitude. I get that item theft is annoying and serves no purpose other than inconveniencing and annoying the person on the end of the theft, but there could be other reasons for wanting to break into someones quarters.

There's bound to be some kind of RP that could be generated from sleuthing and breaking into quarters without any risk to any property or fixtures, though, while still maintaining it so it could required a specific focus for a singular build to be a burglar. Kind of almost to me seems like it forces a more OOC nature to current lock breaking by needing two people.

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Re: Is Open Lock/Disable Trap basically redundant? Or am I mistaken

Post by The GrumpyCat » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:17 pm

TheBlueWizard wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:21 pm
I suppose from reading all the replies so far from older players and the like it kinda shows my naivety on the whole issue. I'm a casual, one or two hours here there kind of player, so I don't get a lot of time to understand the proper workings of the server and stuff.

For me I was generally interested in making a character who would break into quarters to play pranks. Often very obvious that it was him, or some form of follower of Brandobaris that was the culprit. All done with the intention of RP that can come afterwards. I enjoy playing characters who act a bit daft, break a few laws or something, but always for fun. I even enjoy the RP that comes from getting caught and stuff.

But hey, guessing that people breaking into quarters is more done out of a desire for just nicking items rather than attempting to generate some RP.

I do think some of the suggestions other people have said are great, and could generally help generate some kind of RP. Seems a bit daft to me personally that peoples quarters are basically their own fortresses of solitude. I get that item theft is annoying and serves no purpose other than inconveniencing and annoying the person on the end of the theft, but there could be other reasons for wanting to break into someones quarters.

There's bound to be some kind of RP that could be generated from sleuthing and breaking into quarters without any risk to any property or fixtures, though, while still maintaining it so it could required a specific focus for a singular build to be a burglar. Kind of almost to me seems like it forces a more OOC nature to current lock breaking by needing two people.
I really do see where you're coming from - and I do want to say that Open Lock/Disable trap are REALLY not redundent. There are writs you can do ONLY if you have Open Lock, for example, and so many awsome things to find in chests and weapon racks that require those skills. It's not entirely redundent, even if you take quarters entirely out of the mix.

And yes, in the ideal world I think you're right and it would make some great rp. But there are a few things that kinda get in the way of what you're talking about.

1) Not everyone is a great rper, and sadly a lot of people don't care about making good rp, but rather getting neat stuff. Keep in mind that if the lock DC and such were easier, it'd only take 20 pcs to theoretically be able to empty practically every single chest of everything on the server. If they all followed the rules.
2) People get very precious about Stuff, more so than many other things. Don't get me wrong - I see why and this isn't a critisism, nor is it an opening to start other discussions... but I am pretty sure that, at least on an ooc level, most pcs would much rather their character be killed and bashed, than loose their weapon. Because respawning just means you lost a little xp, and you have to wait for a bit. Some weapons take RL weeks to obtain. Items are just something people are very, very precious abit, more so than character life, often.
3) Because of that, I think, the ic reaction to loss of items (especially if those items are valuble) tends to be a bit neuclear. Known quarter breakers can expect a lot more hatred/distrust ect than certain other criminals.
4) It's generally not IC to activly leave clues ect to reveal who your character is, in the vast majority of thefts. In fact often it really /isn't/ IC to leave any 'clues' at all, especialy when linked to 3. Your jolly thief of Brandaboras might want to say, leave a riddle to reveal where he put Billy's golden statue of Sharess, but why would your Maskarran ever be interested in being caught? There's been a bit of critisism about this - people stealing items and not leaving any rp for it , and I do get it, but on the other hand - can you blame them?

The above can be gotten around in various ways I suppose - by forced mechanical 'clues' as to who broke in for example, But it does all lead to a situation which makes quarter break ins - or at least chest breakins... difficult.

Please note - none of the above is meant to actually be a critisism of anyone. Most of the points above I firmly put myself in that camp. I've taken stuff from chests without leaving clues. I've become more precious about items than my own characters life. I've been really careful and upped locks and traps when I've heard there are proffesional quarter breakers around. I'm no paragon. So I think the point stands pretty true.
This too shall pass.

(I now have a DM Discord (I hope) It's DM GrumpyCat#7185 but please keep in mind I'm very busy IRL so I can't promise how quick I'll get back to you.)

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CorsicanDoge
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Re: Is Open Lock/Disable Trap basically redundant? Or am I mistaken

Post by CorsicanDoge » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:14 am

I'm kind of curious how you could break into my quarters, bash my fixtures I've been working on for four hours, and steal my addy 1 stack every 24 hours into a positive role-play experience. I genuinely want to know because I have a quarterbreaker spreadsheet out and everything but the only way I can justify it is if I wanted to just do exactly that: Play a good thief. A good thief doesn't get caught. I'm not going to ransom, I'm not going to leave hints, I'm going to get in and get out.

Maybe if I'm part of a quarterbreaker cabal we could start demanding protection money out of every quarter and spreadsheeting everyone that paid/didn't pay and we'd get paid pretty well because once you hit the trap/OL DCs there's not much they can do to defend against you. It'd still be rather minimal contact done through a spokesperson that handles all transactions and it'd be insisted upon that you transfer the money to this spokesperson.

Would people talk about this cabal? Hell yes they would and they'd be furious because the only thing that gets everyone angry is taking their stuff. Death is a more preferable fate than accidentally losing a weapon from imp disarm back in the day. But the only people that'd enjoy this cabal is me and the spokesperson divvying up the protection money every RL month.

How many quarters are there? Demand 10k out of every quarter and you'd have a pretty penny. They don't pay? I bash their fixtures and take their stuff every week.

This is the most "rp inclusive" example I could think of that'd make sense for a character that'd otherwise be universally hated to not be on the 24/7 hour killbash.

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