Fighter build

[homestuff]

Considering making an Achilles inspired pure fighter, which leads to the question. Is the classic greek spear and shield style possible on arelith? or at least a way to emulate it? (I know there was some changes to tridants)

And secondly, given the theme how would you build said fighter?
(also, your thoughts on Dex vs Str?)
thanks!

[Urch]

Unfortunately there is no one handed spear. You could use a short sword though to represent a xiphos (there is a good model for it), or perhaps a scimitar or long sword to represent a kopis. The problem with a kopis is that they were generally cavalry weapons rather than infantry.
The only change they did to tridents was fixing that annoying bug with weapon focus: trident not giving the +1 ab bonus.

I'd build it strength based, and wear a breastplate, considering the armour they used in such time was a breastplate and greaves and usually nothing else. Use a spear as a main weapon, and a backup shield (hoplon) and xiphos. For ranged, would use darts or slings. (unfortunately there is no javelins, so it is why I said darts).

Just me thoughts.

[The Man of the Moon]

Considering making an Achilles inspired pure fighter, which leads to the question. Is the classic greek spear and shield style possible on arelith? or at least a way to emulate it? (I know there was some changes to tridants)

And secondly, given the theme how would you build said fighter?
(also, your thoughts on Dex vs Str?)
thanks!

If you want an arelithian Achilles version, you could keep a STR build rather than a DEX one.

But due the butcher superior warrior that Achilles was, he probably could be better reflected as a 25 fighter/5 weapon master (for the gruesome critical damage multiplier) As fighter 2025 his gear (armor, helmet and shield) will be considered as +5, which is awesome enough I think, but keeping a devastator critical hit, erpresenting the excellence of Achilles as an epic and heroic warrior, almost an avatar of the war.

RACE: Human (Or half elf?) (fitting Achilles race /while he was ment to be a Demigod, son of the King of the Myrmidons Peleus and of the sea deity Thetys) and providing 1 more feat and more skill points)

Fitting the demidivine sense, you may want to use a 32 SR gift - normal award requierd (be aware of the +2 ECL)

CLASS: 25 fighter / 5 weapon master.

PATH: May be Kensai, as Achilles was known as the fastest of the men. "Swift-footed" Achilles. Then, the SR 32 may really be helpful here.

GIFTS to enhance STR, CON and INT (2.5 ECL, if this were too much for you, you may go STR, CON for 1.5 ECL)

BACKGROUND: Fearless or Soldier background probably

Header Class Race Fighter(25), Weapon Master(5), Human

Abilies
STR: 18 (20 with gift) (25/27 with gift)
DEX: 14
CON: 10 (12 with gift)
WIS: 8
INT: 14 (16 with gift for +1 additional skill/level?)
CHA: 8

Lvl Class featuers (Feats, skills...)
Human: (Quick to Master)
1 F 01: Fighter(1): Expertise, Dodge, Mobility
2 F 02: Fighter(2): Weapon Proficiency Exotic
3 F 03: Fighter(3): Spring Attack
4 F 04: Fighter(4): STR+1, Whirlwind Attack, (STR=19)
5 F 05: Fighter(5)
6 F 06: Fighter(6): Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword, Weapon Specialization: Bastard Sword
7 WM 07: Weapon Master(1): Weapon of Choice: Bastard Sword
8 WM 08: Weapon Master(2): STR+1, (STR=20)
9 WM 09: Weapon Master(3): Improved Critical: Bastard Sword
10 WM 10: Weapon Master(4)
11 WM 11: Weapon Master(5)
12 F 12: Fighter(7): STR+1, Blind Fight, (STR=21)
13 F 13: Fighter(8): Knockdown
14 F 14: Fighter(9)
15 F 15: Fighter(10): Power Attack, Improved Knockdown
16 F 16: Fighter(11): STR+1, (STR=22)
17 F 17: Fighter(12): Cleave
18 F 18: Fighter(13): Disarm
19 F 19: Fighter(14): Improved Disarm
20 F 20: Fighter(15): STR+1, (STR=23)
21 F 21: Fighter(16): Epic Skill Focus: Discip, Epic Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword
22 F 22: Fighter(17)
23 F 23: Fighter(18): Armor Skin
24 F 24: Fighter(19): STR+1, Epic Energy Resistance: Fire I, (STR=24)
25 F 25: Fighter(20): Epic Weapon Specialization: Bastard Sword
26 F 26: Fighter(21)
27 F 27: Fighter(22): Epic Energy Resistance: Acid I, Epic Prowess
28 F 28: Fighter(23): STR+1, (STR=25)
29 F 29: Fighter(24): Great Cleave
30 F 30: Fighter(25): Epic Energy Resistance: Fire II

* With those epic energy resistances (plus the 5 resitances from enchanted gear) you will be not afraid of enemy fire or acid shields (lowering their damage to a very low issue or to none damage)

About the skills: (The INT 16 will be helpful if you want to cover most of those here commented)

Intimidate 4 (needed as requirement to become wm)
Discipline: maxed
Heal: maxed
Cross-skill: Tumble up to 15
umd is a must IF you avoid Kensai path. You could pick it as cross class skill. My bad, can't be picked as cross class skill as was pointed below
Lore (up to 8 or 10 may be enough to identify things)

Other recomended:

Spellcraft (each 5 ranks on this cross-classed skill will give you +1 to saves against spells)
Spot
Open Lock (at least 1 point may be enough, within a gear providing +2 to this skill, to open any non-artifact chest)
Disable traps (at least 1 point may be enough, within a gear providing +2 to this skill, to disable any non epic trap)


FIGTHING STYLE: As long as spear couldn't be used with shield, you may use those two:

Sword+Round shield. Probably you will need to keep this focuss, as you get +5 AC with a medium greensteel shield (round design)

What sword? A greek sword is like a short one, but is not worthy in NWN system, so I may go for bastard sword. [But you can go for whatever weapon you want... But a longsword or a scimitar are pretty diferent from what Achiless used... the bastard, in the NWN looking may be as a broadsword of fearsome apearance, that I think seems good in the build. IRL the most aproached could be the short sword (that mechanically is a crap in NWN)

If you preferred sacrifice a bit of the looking taste, go for scimitar, for the best critical rank (a keened scimitar in this build will get critical menaces with 10+ on d20 roll)

What shield? The medium greensteel shield can be shaped into a Round looking shield and will be as strong as a mithril towershield due the +3 AC bonus on greensteel shields. But once you became above level 15 as fighter, replace with an enchanted bronce rounded shield enchanted with STR, CON, Fortitude... (as the bonus will overlap the one from the greensteel shield).

Posible damage with bastard sword:
bonus dmg:
1d10 - Basic dmg weapon
5 - Weapon +5 (from fighter level)
13 - Bonus from STR
2 - Bonus from spec
4 - Bonus from epic spec
4 - Bonus from dmg essence (alchemy)
1d4 - Bonus from enchanted dmg (once was aplied the alchemic essence)
1d6 - Temporary essence
___________________
1d10+1d6+1d4 + 28 = 31 min. dmg /// ~39 average damage on hit. /// 48 max dmg

With a critical strike, you can deal: 93 min. /// 117 avg /// 144 max dmg (as weapon master)


FINAL GEAR:
You may want a full set enchanted with:
(Shield, armor, helmet, ring1, ring2, amulet, cloack, bracier, belt) 9 pieces
(Remember, you will be giving +5 AC to your armor, helemt and shield from the 25 fighter levels).

+1 STR
+1 CON
+1 Fortitude saves
+2 discipline
+2 heal / +2 spot
+ 5/- dmg resist on each element

Then:
Weapon: Keen + alchemic essence dmg essence + enchanting 1d4 divine (Remember, you will be giving +5 AB and +5 dmg from the 25 fighter levels).

Boots: +1 AC, +1 STR, +1 CON

For a total boost of:
+10 STR
+10 CON
+15 fortitude saves (+10 plus +5 from CON enchants)
+18 Discipline
+18 miscellanea shaerd among: heal, spot, spellcraft)


Posible AC:

10 -Base
2 -Armor skin (epic feat)
8 - Full plate (will disable 1 of your DEX ac) You can customice the looking of the full plate as if were an hoplite armor.
1 -DEX 14 in full plate)
5 - Armor bonus: From the 25 fighter levels.
5 - Shield bonus: From the 25 fighter levels.
5 - Helmet bonus: From the 25 fighter levels.
1 - Boots
2/3/4 - Amulet +2 natural armor (once you were around level 12-15, you can FOIG and get one easily) In case you went on Kensai mode as you wont use barskin potions/wands by yourself.
Also, this amulet could be enchanted to also keep at least +1 CON (and more with a good enchanter)
4 - Kensai path perma-haste or haste wands/options if not Kensai path selected.
3 - Tumble cross skill (15 ranks)
1 - Dodge feat
5 - Expertise (as your AB will be high enough, you may fight often using expertise -> goes +10 with improved expertise, and lowering -10 your AB)
______________________
52 AC as not warded Kensai; 46 AC without wards as non Kensai (* the +6 AC gap is: perma-haste and the armulet of +2 AC that a kensai should use as a small replacement of barskin potions/wands)

With a barskin pot: 49 AC as non Kensai
With a barskin wand: 50 AC as non Kensai
With barskin wand+ haste potion: 54 AC.

HIT POINTS:
Without gear / With gear
For CON 10: 300 / 450
For CON 12: 330 / 480

SAVINGS: This is the weakest point on this build *
Fort 15 + 5 (20) (23 with spellcraft)
Will 10 (13 with spellcraft) --> 17 with Fearless bacground
Reflex 16 (19 with spellcraft) --> 17 with Fearless Background

* You may solve this, by switching some enchants with +1 universal savings and investing normal and epic feats to get the +2 and +4 acumulative savings.


Disclaimer: Made the maths so fast... Someone may find flaws or wrong calculations. Feel free to fix anything as to suggest any improvement to this. (Pertty sure can be improved)

[grip]

umd is a must IF you avoid Kensai path. You could pick it as cross class skill.

Can't cross-class UMD

[The Man of the Moon]

umd is a must IF you avoid Kensai path. You could pick it as cross class skill.

Can't cross-class UMD

Auch! So right!

[Urch]

The blade that Achilles' mother gave to Achilles, of which he cherished the most was a xiphos, if that helps decide weapons.
I've found the kukri also to emulate a similar shape to the weapons they used in such time.

[The Man of the Moon]

The blade that Achilles' mother gave to Achilles, of which he cherished the most was a xiphos, if that helps decide weapons.
I've found the kukri also to emulate a similar shape to the weapons they used in such time.

In the game, the closest thing to a Xiphos is the short sword. A typical xiphos was longer than a kukri (kukri is a long knife from Nepal). And the shape is not yet the same... Kukri looks more like a small falcate (ancient Spanish short sword that some points as the inspiration for the roman gladius and that was introduced in the Iberian Peninsula by the Celts). I definitively, may choose the short sword to match an old Greek blade.

The kukri is about 30 centimetres while the short sword is about 50 centimetres, as was the case of the xiphos used by the myrmidons.

Also the kukri has a single edge, whiles the short sword, as the xiphos, is double-edged.

Not to mention that the looks of a short sword IG is also more like the ancient Greek swords.

Choosing a short sword, you also save a feat as you don't need to pick exotic weapons (as bastards swords or kukris require)

You could use a short sword though to represent a xiphos (there is a good model for it)

For max accuracy, I may just chose this.

[Jagel]

fighter 20 his gear (armor, helmet and shield) will be considered as +5, which is awesome enough I think

You need 25 fighter levels to get the +5 bonus.

[The Man of the Moon]

You need 25 fighter levels to get the +5 bonus.

If you read the rest of the post, is clear I was referring to level 25 as is mentioned many times, this 20 is a typo.

[Norfildor]

I probably would not even consider a fighter build without the save improving feats and their epic versions.

[homestuff]

Wow, You guys rock!

I will defiantly be going with short sword, as nice as bastard swords are. Using one would ruin the either theme for me. Also, I did a little playing around in a character creator and figured out that magic staves with the weird stick appearance seem to look rather convincingly spear like. I'll likely use one in light combat just to further the theme. (unfortunately, you cant weapon focus magic staves)

As for the build, I think I like the dip into weapon master, Though I think Norf has a good point about save feats. Luck of heroes(lvl1). Strong soul(lvl1). Great fort and Iron will in particular seem rather tempting. I'll probly go play around with this some more and see how things turn out ^.^

[The Man of the Moon]

Wow, You guys rock!

I will defiantly be going with short sword, as nice as bastard swords are. Using one would ruin the either theme for me. Also, I did a little playing around in a character creator and figured out that magic staves with the weird stick appearance seem to look rather convincingly spear like. I'll likely use one in light combat just to further the theme. (unfortunately, you cant weapon focus magic staves)

As for the build, I think I like the dip into weapon master, Though I think Norf has a good point about save feats. Luck of heroes(lvl1). Strong soul(lvl1). Great fort and Iron will in particular seem rather tempting. I'll probly go play around with this some more and see how things turn out ^.^

While you may go with Luck of Heroes, avoid others and just pick +2 will and +4 epic will later... You will have fortitude enough from enchants (CON + Forti saves=~+15) also... if you enchant spellcraft on your gear, you can get up to +4 savings against all spells) ...If you invest too many starting feats, you will lose other very important feats pre epic and will delay drastically the level where you start as wm, making hardest also your leveling progression. (But just a suggestion, up to you)

This is my advice... I also commented about the savings feats on the ending part of my post, but seems as that get lost between the many text wall

...
SAVINGS: This is the weakest point on this build *
Fort 15 + 5 (20) (23 with spellcraft)
Will 10 (13 with spellcraft) --> 17 with Fearless bacground
Reflex 16 (19 with spellcraft) --> 17 with Fearless Background

* You may solve this, by switching some enchants with +1 universal savings and investing normal and epic feats to get the +2 and +4 acumulative savings.

[Lorkas]

You need at least 1 actual rank in spellcraft in order to benefit from spellcraft items, but that's okay because 15 spellcraft (cross class) is totally worth it for a fighter if you are going for saves.