Chest looting | hostile action

[mirvv]

I would like to get a clarification from the Team because i heard a few things, without any specific event to give:

That is a hostile action,if a character loot a chest (probably avoiding the spawns, sneaking) in a dungeon, while another gorup arrives and finds the chest empy.

1, This is allow the group to attack the looter character without any further rp?
2, Or it's a where the 'Be Nice' rule should be applied and rogues should not solo dungeons and loot chests alone?
3, Or rogues (include any other shady class) is allowed to sneak upon parties or ahead of them and loot out chest?

Thanks.

[Curve]

It seems like you want generalized answers for specific happenings. If you are having specific issues it is probably best to reach out to a dm. I’ll answeras best I can, though.

1 No, PvP still needs to be rp’d. Unless of course the situation is not as simple as it is being presented.

2 There are no rules against soloing. It is a complicated equation when deciding if you as a soloer would be doing the cool thing by staying, leaving, or joining when a party shows up. Plug in your level, generally accepted level for the dungeon, is your character a prick, so on and so forth.

3 Seems like it would be hard to do this without being a low rpr, mean spirited player.

[Lawful]

I know you want a response from the team, but I think it works like pickpocket, where your thieving is your RP in the situation, and the people involved have the right to attack right away. But engaging in the be nice rule will further RP, so that should always be considered first.

[Nitro]

Report it to the DM's and move on. People who sneak past groups to loot the dungeon chests ahead of them are rarely playing nice, and if it becomes a pattern the DM's can sort them out.

[mirvv]

Its a bit strange for me, i dont have any IG situation (atm) about this issue but wants to see clear. Why is a pick pocket similiarity with looting a chest in a dungeon before a party? i mean that chest nor it containment belongs to the adventurerers... or they can claim it when they are entered the dungeon?

The adventuring party could have access to prevent such stealing happens when they are around with true seeing, high spot.. etc... and when it counts to "rule brake", when the looting stealth character is aware of the presence in that dungeon or even just doing it? And aligment (CE, CN...etc) cannot take into consideration? why a CE stealth character who in solo could not defeat a whole dungeon by itself, however can sneak through (as a mage could go invisible through or a monk just run through the dungeon..etc) and take the loot in the end?

There is no ongoing IG event for me to report,nor have any capable rogue in my character vault,just heard about these shadow rules and wanted to see clearly.

thanks.

[Xarge VI]

I haven't encountered any mentions from the DM team that someone looting chests excuses you from RP before PVP.

I know breaking into someone's quarter doesn't excuse from RP before pvp. So I highly doubt looting dungeon chests does.

[Good Character]

If you are actively in a dungeon and making your way towards the end, then someone cannot simply rush through (stealthed, invisible, or however) and take the loot/ore/etc. at the end. They would need to deliberately roleplay with you, such as doing things to prevent you from progressing. That roleplay would mean they would need to drop their stealth and/or invisiblity so you could see their roleplay.

As far as noticing the looter as they loot, no you cannot immediately attack them. Two wrongs do not make a right. Roleplay with them then initiated PvP.

Anyways, if you see someone do this then just report it to the DM's.

[AstralUniverse]

I would like to get a clarification from the Team because i heard a few things, without any specific event to give:

That is a hostile action,if a character loot a chest (probably avoiding the spawns, sneaking) in a dungeon, while another gorup arrives and finds the chest empy.

1, This is allow the group to attack the looter character without any further rp?
2, Or it's a where the 'Be Nice' rule should be applied and rogues should not solo dungeons and loot chests alone?
3, Or rogues (include any other shady class) is allowed to sneak upon parties or ahead of them and loot out chest?

Thanks.

1) this is incorrect. looting a chest in a dungeon is not a pvp action against a dungeoning party. These chest dont belong to the dungeoning party and looting them is not a hostile action against the party.
2) sneaking past a party and 'stealing' the deungon, killing all the mobs and leaving it empty, used to be against the Be Nice rule but I understand that in recent years it's not the case anymore and that dungeons are free-for-all, and their content is now in the realm of IC conflict. Solve this IC.
3) Rogues live on that. I had rogues sneaking around me and emptying all containers while I fight even during DM events. This is entirely okay.

[Ork]

I would like to get a clarification from the Team because i heard a few things, without any specific event to give:

That is a hostile action,if a character loot a chest (probably avoiding the spawns, sneaking) in a dungeon, while another gorup arrives and finds the chest empy.

1, This is allow the group to attack the looter character without any further rp?
2, Or it's a where the 'Be Nice' rule should be applied and rogues should not solo dungeons and loot chests alone?
3, Or rogues (include any other shady class) is allowed to sneak upon parties or ahead of them and loot out chest?

Thanks.

1) this is incorrect. looting a chest in a dungeon is not a pvp action against a dungeoning party. These chest dont belong to the dungeoning party and looting them is not a hostile action against the party.
2) sneaking past a party and 'stealing' the deungon, killing all the mobs and leaving it empty, used to be against the Be Nice rule but I understand that in recent years it's not the case anymore and that dungeons are free-for-all, and their content is now in the realm of IC conflict. Solve this IC.
3) Rogues live on that. I had rogues sneaking around me and emptying all containers while I fight even during DM events. This is entirely okay.

Nitro has the right of it. Report this behavior & move on. Commenting on these pieces are going to create shadowrules unless delivered by a DM.

I will say that if you roleplay calling out, "whoever is thieving from these chests, reveal yourself!" And they don't? Thats RP before PvP.

To add, if you're shadowlooting a dungeon without any intent to roleplay with the people killing the spawn, we ain't friends.

[Flower Power]

The answer is simple.

If you see people do this, give them cursory RP and then killbash them. Or chase them out of the dungeon and spread the word that they're not to be trusted and are jerkfaces IG.

Then report them to the DMs for being unchill.

[AstralUniverse]

To add, if you're shadowlooting a dungeon without any intent to roleplay with the people killing the spawn, we ain't friends.

you can rest assured it's really not my thing, friend.

But I guess I'm a bit confused. What am I reporting to the DMs in that situation? That there's someone else in the dungeon, looting stuff without interacting with me? What if they were here first? what if they arent even aware that I'm here too? Like.. I dont see what the content of the report would be.

[Gouge Away]

Far as I know stealthers are allowed to sneak through dungeons, pick their battles and loot chests while hidden. There's no obligation to RP with another party (especially if you know they'll kill you) if you pass them when sneaking. If a sneak got to a standard chest ahead of you it may or may not be cool if they snuck past but I don't think you're fighting mobs a few rooms away means a chest elsewhere in the dungeon is inherently yours. Maybe I'm wrong on some of these counts but these just seem like what happens in these kinds of games. It's good karma to stop and RP even if it's not to your benefit and to let the party fighting their way through have the treasure, so don't get me wrong and I don't endorse the behavior on general principle, but I also don't think it's rule breaking.

I'd say if it's a runic chest or addy node that's definitely another matter. If it's someone logging in and out by a chest or resource without putting in effort to get there, that's definitely another matter. Both of those seem to be reporting territory. A rogue sneaks past in a high traffic level 15 writ area and gets the +2 weapons out of the chest ahead of you? I'd just try to move on.

[Nitro]

Here's a couple of relevant DM quote from a past thread about this issue.

What is the DM/Dev's opinion on "artifact farming"? I mean stealthing/imp. invis + hasting past all spawns just to take artifacts and then leave.

Don't do it. Report it if you see it. Offenders will be shot.

One would think that on a roleplay server that stresses both fairness and interaction, our position would be obvious.

Short answer: don't be that guy.

The thread in question: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1177

[Good Character]

If I understand what the OP wants to know, I think that is different. I don't think the DMs also pursue people that artifact/rune farm like that anymore given inherent measures placed into dungeons to prevent it (e.g. having to kill certain mobs for one-time use keys, mobs with vanilla true seeing, a mob with the SOLE ABILITY TO YANK AND TANK YOU, etc.).

[Dreams]

If someone sneaks past you and steals the loot whilst you're adventuring, it's perfectly IC to want to kill them in many cases. Make sure you RP first, because in all cases it is better that you focus on trying to RP before you PvP. If they try to run instead of RP, then that is what they're choosing to do in response to your RP (and you may then attack). You should still try to engage in RP either way!

(And naturally if people are breaking rules, also screenshot and explain to DMs)

[Might-N-Magic]

Here's the problem though...
It's obvious you don't know they snuck past you. I mean, if you did, you would have called them out as they snuck past you.
A few times I've snuck through a dungeon and an adventuring party comes in to reach me at the halfway point or even while I'm doing the boss and I've gotten into a fight with them, telling them I was there first.
If you know for a fact they did that, you'd have to have seen them walk past you, so call them out then.

[Gouge Away]

I just don't see how you can put rules on "who was in the dungeon first" and all that. This isn't miniature golf where you have to wait your turn or ask to play through.

Sneaking is part of the game, people play rogues to access chests, sometimes they'll beat you to those chests. if they're camping or logging in and out or otherwise exploiting that's one thing but I don't think being a greedy rogue is illegal (though it could be bad form and bad karma in some situations.)

[Ork]

This really isn't on us to debate. I'd implore everyone that encounters this behavior to report it. The DMs will decide if it breaches the rule in the moment. At the heart of it, if you're sneaking through a dungeon after a party to loot the chests of spawns they're killing with no intention of roleplaying, my respect for you is 0. You're adding nothing to the environment.