The Time Update: FAQS/Read me!

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The Time Update: FAQS/Read me!

Post by Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia » Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:19 am

THE TIME UPDATE: FAQS/READ ME!

This is live! Re-read my posts in this thread! Yes, you!

Hello, I'm your friendly neighborhood Bat Country and I'm here to talk to you today about time. For those catching up, a recent news post briefly touched on two important changes coming up: time scale (how fast time moves in game relative to real life), and calendar dating (going from only using Arelith Reckoning, or AR, to also using Dale Reckoning, or DR).

All information in this thread supersedes that on the news post linked above. The first part of the thread will explain the changes themselves, the second part will explain how those changes will impact (or won't impact) certain important mechanics, like quarter timers or elections, and the third part will detail events from 1372 and on which have happened on Arelith's timeline.

Please read this thread in full before posting to respond! Please also note that this thread is subject to tweaks as we get closer to rollout, but I will both bump the thread and update the available information if that happens, or if any particular points are to be elaborated on.

(You might see me refer to 169 AR as a cutoff date elsewhere in this thread. I don't want to have to edit all my old posts, so be aware that the real cutoff date is 173 AR!)

TIME SCALE
Game time on Arelith has always flowed at 10x the speed of real time. This means that six RL minutes is one IG hour, one IG day is 2.4 RL hours, etc. This is because in NwN, the 'game hour' equals 6 RL minutes. We are changing that value so one game hour is equal to 20 RL minutes. This means that game time will flow at 3x the speed of real time. Put another way, game time will run 3.3x slower than it used to.

Note that this will not effect combat-scale time for rounds and turns: a combat round is still 6 seconds, and a combat turn is still 60 seconds. But an hour, like for the Zoo spell durations, will be affected by this change, and last correspondingly longer.

ARELITH RECKONING AND DALE RECKONING
In Arelith Reckoning, we are currently in the year 173 AR. When the time scale change goes live, we will also begin dating time in Dale Reckoning, starting at the year 1372 DR. This has two major considerations: how we handle backdating events prior to update (anything from 172 or earlier), and how we handle historical events published by Wizards of the Coast in the DR timeline during and after 1372.

We will not be removing AR as a means of dating, but simply adding DR as an additional way to view dates on writings and etc. A new chat command, -date_mode #, will allow for years on dates to be displayed in one of four ways (years given as examples only):
0 - Calendar year will be displayed in Arelith Reckoning: 173 AR
1 - Calendar year will be displayed in Arelith Reckoning, with Dale Reckoning shown after: 200 AR (1399 DR)
2 - Calendar year will be displayed in Dale Reckoning, with Arelith Reckoning shown after: 1399 DR (200 AR)

BACKDATING EVENTS BEFORE 173 AR INTO DALE RECKONING
Backdating events on the DR calendar will not be possible with the time scale changes. Because all time prior to the changeover happened at 3.33x speed to all time that will happen after, we would get crazy and/or ambiguous dating issues like the Fall of Benwick or the Baronial Age being backdated to centuries ago, as opposed to mere decades.

Therefore, only events that happen During or After 173 AR should be directly referenced in DR years. All timestamps prior to the year of the change will always display as if you were in date_mode 0 (ex. 87 AR). Basically, it's too confusing to try to account for older events in the context of DR, so we're just saying "it doesn't work backwards" for the sake of everyone's sanity. For events before 173 AR, just use AR!

THE WIZARDS OF THE COAST TIMELINE
We are not following WotC's timeline and history of events. Our DR calendar post-1372 follow an alternative timeline unique to Arelith.

That means all events happening during and after 1372 as published by Wizards of the Coast will, by default, not be reflected on Arelith. While we reserve the right to individually reference post-1372 events, it will be only at Irongron's discretion, and they will be listed on this thread in one of the posts below. Unless it's on that post, it never happened. We are doing our own thing, we just happen to use the same calendar.

IN-CHARACTER REACTIONS
Because the Dale Reckoning calendar has 'always existed' narratively speaking, there is no need to treat us having added a way to track it as something that has changed in-world, in-character. The addition of the dating scheme can be considered an OOC/mechanical adjustment; we used to be forced to ignore DR dating due to the high time scale making it unwieldy, and all this update does is provide support to make it okay OOCly to acknowledge and use it.
Last edited by Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia on Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:53 am, edited 5 times in total.

Done.


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The Time Update: Time conversions and mechanical changes

Post by Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia » Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:19 am

REAL TIME <-> GAME TIME CONVERSIONS
The following table details how certain real-life time periods (green rows) or in-game time periods (blue rows) convert over.
Image

*RL Month*: This row assumes 30 days in a month.
*RL Year*: The first RL Year row follows the standard of 12 30-day months, for a total of 360 days, for completeness' sake.
*RL Year*: The second RL Year row is an actual RL year of 365 days, for completeness' sake.

You also may have noticed the inclusion of a row for "IG Quarters," or 3 IG months. To understand why, see below:

Length of one IG year (10x timescale): 33.6 RL days
Length of three IG months (3x timescale): 28 RL days
Length of four IG months (3x timescale): 37.33 RL days

It's much easier to keep track of 28 RL days than it is to keep track of 37.33 RL days. This also means that events which used to be yearly, can now be quarterly (which is way more convenient than doing something "triannually").

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR <X> MECHANIC?
RP/State Ticks
Instead of one RP/state tick per IG hour (one every six RL minutes), you will now get four RP/state ticks every IG hour (one every five RL minutes). Enjoy your faster falling rest meters and faster RPR XP gains.

Crafting Points
Crafting points will continue to be restored at a rate of 1/24th your total pool every RP tick. With the RP tick time changing, this means that crafting point refill time has been reduced from 2.4 RL hours (24 IG hours) to 2 RL hours (6 IG hours).

God Saves
Like crafting points, refresh on these has been reduced from 2.4 RL hours (24 IG hours) to 2 RL hours (6 IG hours).

Spell Durations
Spells and abilities which have durations of rounds or turns will be unaffected. Those which have durations in hours will be affected (and will therefore last 3.3x longer in realtime).

Settlements: Resource Consumption
Resource consumption for all settlements has been increased by ~20%. Before the changeover, resource stores and trade were processed once per IG year. Now they will be processed IG quarterly (4 times) over a year that is 3.3x longer. As stated above, a "triannual" resource/trade period would have been too confusing, so the extra resource consumption is the cost of convenience here. If this is deemed to be too much, we'll adjust resource drain per quarter downwards to compensate.

Settlements: Leadership Elections
The time between an election and when the next one can be called has been changed from one IG year to one IG quarter, or reduced from 33.6 RL days to 28 RL days. The election period when characters can cast their votes has been changed from one IG month to 2 IG weeks, or increased from 2.8 RL days to 4.67 RL days.

This means that a full leadership and electoral cycle is reduced from 36.4 days to 32.67 days. While not optimal, this is about the easiest to remember solution available that kept close to the original timeframes.

Settlements: Land Brokerage
All land brokerage areas have had their terms changed directly from IG years to IG quarters - that is to say, a land brokerage term of 2 IG years (used to be 67.2 RL days) is now 2 IG quarters (6 IG months) (56 RL days).

Properties: Ownership Periods
Unchanged. All quarters, shops, ships, guildhouses, and other properties already had durations measured in real time, not game time. Your 7-day quarter will still be 7-days, but in that time, 21 IG days will have passed instead of 70 (3x instead of 10x).

Properties: Tax Periods
Tax rates for all properties have been increased by 3x! But payments will continue to be withdrawn every IG month, the length of which is increasing from 2.8 RL days to 9.33 RL days. This means that you are paying 3x higher a tax bill, but 3.3x as much time passes between payments. This was honestly the least annoying way to go about this, and at least you will come out a little bit ahead in the end.

Boons
Unchanged. The duration of various Boons (like riding instruction at castles, or out of some Lowerdark dungeons and other places of power) were already measured in real time, not game time.

Ship Travel
Unchanged. Travel is still updated minutely and travel times are not being adjusted.

Monster/Chest Respawning
Reduced from 6 RL minutes to 5 RL minutes.
Last edited by Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia on Sun Jun 20, 2021 1:16 am, edited 5 times in total.

Done.


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The Time Update: Events from 1372+ in Arelith

Post by Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia » Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:19 am

EVENTS FROM 1372 AND ON THAT HAVE HAPPENED ON ARELITH'S TIMELINE
Format:
Year it happened in the Arelith timeline (Year it happened in the WotC timeline) - The Thing that Happened

Example that you'll never ever see:
1373 DR (1385 DR) - The Spellplague begins

THE LIST:
**** DR* (1372 DR*) - The Resurrection of Bane*
**** DR* (1372 DR*) - The return of Thultanthar and arrival of the Shadovar*
**** DR* (1372 DR*) - Elminster trapped in the Nine Hells*

*NOTE: These events are unique in that they have been part of the established Arelith canon for many RL years, despite technically being 'recent.' Because it wouldn't make sense to suddenly refer to them as having been recent events, they should fall under a similar case of 'no backdating' as described above. It remains best not to refer to them in terms of AR or DR, and to avoid referencing them in a chronological context. This is no different to how we already treat them.

Done.


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Re: The Time Update: FAQS/Read me!

Post by Babylon System is the Vampire » Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:16 am

Overall I think these are going to be good changes once people get used to how history is handled. One thing I think needs to be tweaked though is the leadership period. I personally think the time frame is too short as is, and would rather see this tweak go slightly longer rather then slightly shorter if those are the two choices.

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Re: The Time Update: FAQS/Read me!

Post by A1RMAN » Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:39 am

Please, describe how Skal's freeze/thaw mechanic will work with the new time.

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Re: The Time Update: FAQS/Read me!

Post by Gouge Away » Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:07 am

Hopefully Gift of Wealth will remain the same in RL time?

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Re: The Time Update: FAQS/Read me!

Post by BobTheSkull » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:26 pm

Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:19 am

THE WIZARDS OF THE COAST TIMELINE
We are not following WotC's timeline and history of events. The DR calendar post-1372 will be an alternative timeline unique to Arelith.
Isn't this exactly what we have now?

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Re: The Time Update: FAQS/Read me!

Post by Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia » Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:18 pm

BobTheSkull wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:26 pm
Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:19 am

THE WIZARDS OF THE COAST TIMELINE
We are not following WotC's timeline and history of events. The DR calendar post-1372 will be an alternative timeline unique to Arelith.
Isn't this exactly what we have now?
Your post was edited by the time I got to write this, but you had some very fair questions in there! I'll address technical effort and risk first, since that's my primary role in this update:

Basically, a few years back, the very excellent Silvard made some very sweeping overhauls to how time is handled on the back-end that resolved the issue we ran into of every few years needing to 'reset the clock' and fake the difference. Random hard crash and rollback days every couple years. He already re-built our entire time libraries and configured just about every mechanic to run off Unix time. So well in fact, that pretty much nobody noticed!

Because he already did all the heavy lifting for something like this to work, my job is just working out what all the new numbers will be, and changing what few game time mechanics still remain to work off Unix time as well. This is a big lift, but not a heroic one. The lead time we have will also permit me to test the changes in an isolated server environment to verify the behavior. And if it still needs to be delayed a week or a month or longer until I'm satisfied it won't cause ripple effects, then it'll be delayed.

To answer why: for time scaling, our super-short days and nights are jarring, and longer days/nights will mean less conversations that take RL days, or longer nights for UD races to stage raids (and be able to execute more sophisticated plans than just QUICK FIND SOMEONE TO KILL WE ONLY GOT 40 MINUTES).

The 3x multiplier means that for players with limited playtimes, even if they can't stick around for an entire day/night cycle at a time, if they log on at the same time each day they'll always get to alternate between playing day or night each day.

And on a more macro-scale, the slower rate of time will mean the passing of years will feel less jarring too; an IG decade is a lot of time to go through in a single RL year. This will make our historical timeline a bit more reasonable.

As you're certainly picking up from this, the decision to make the change was stylistic/creative. The decision to include DR is less about us following the canon timeline, and more about us no longer being stuck in the Groundhog Day-style time loop where every year is 1372. My timeline post explains why this is an issue: we have Bane being resurrected in the same year we're starting out, and yet we have 100 IG years of history of his Church.

Irongron is one of the larger proponents of the shift to acknowledge the passage of DR time largely in regards to all the external mainland factions being brought into Arelith's narrative, to varying degrees, and can probably speak to greater length on the subject.

Done.


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Re: The Time Update: FAQS/Read me!

Post by Irongron » Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:43 pm

Just to give some explanation for our change to the Forgotten Realms Calendar of Harptos. I never liked us being frozen in time at 1371/1372, but given the pace of time there was little other option. We are a world based in the Forgotten Realms, and players naturally use forgotten realms web articles and source books.

The whole Groundhog Day effect of everything in 1371/1372 being 'in the last 2 years' despite our date having moved on more than 100 I felt, and feel, was just way too confusing to new players. It also led to confusion with groups like the Banites and Iron Throne. I'm looking forward to gradually rolling Arelith forward in FR history (albeit on a new timeline).

I understand this is a big change, but it is one I very much feel is worthwhile.

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Re: The Time Update: FAQS/Read me!

Post by Zakka Zakka » Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:31 pm

How will this interact with the respawning of monsters from area to area?
Will they respawn in 5 minutes or still take 6?
And chests?

If they respawn faster, it'd be agood quality of life for crowded areas where players are waiting to do writs...

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Re: The Time Update: FAQS/Read me!

Post by Quidix » Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:10 am

I'd be curious how ore and herb spawn timers are affected?

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Re: The Time Update: FAQS/Read me!

Post by Flower Power » Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:19 am

Was whether or not hour/lvl spells would use the new longer hour length as a QoL update, or if they'd be altered to be 6 turns/lvl to maintain their current duration ever decided?

And, apologies for nesting questions within questions here, if so will Zoobuff potions still be readily available from NPC merchants; if they will no longer be (given the fact they'd now last a RL hour each) will they be added to Herbalism?
what would fred rogers do?

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Re: The Time Update: FAQS/Read me!

Post by Rico_scorpion » Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:08 pm

Hey, gift of wealth states 5k per month, if time is slower, it means this gift gives that much less, or there's something that was done for it? thanks

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Re: The Time Update: FAQS/Read me!

Post by Eira » Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:17 pm

Rico_scorpion wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:08 pm
Hey, gift of wealth states 5k per month, if time is slower, it means this gift gives that much less, or there's something that was done for it? thanks
Also curious about this. I really hope it keeps to RL time.

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Re: The Time Update: FAQS/Read me!

Post by Gouge Away » Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:02 pm

Eira wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:17 pm
Also curious about this. I really hope it keeps to RL time.
Definitely because right now it's in a sweet spot where it's worth taking if you can stand to not take one of your +2 stat gifts but any less and it's not worth it at all. It's basically one quick dungeon run's worth of gold twice a week or so currently which is great on a side character or if you don't have RL time to be a crafter. 5000 gp every RL week and a half? Ehhh...

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Re: The Time Update: FAQS/Read me!

Post by daimon_d_heart » Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:13 pm

Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:19 am
IN-CHARACTER REACTIONS
Because the Dale Reckoning calendar has 'always existed' narratively speaking, there is no need to treat us having added a way to track it as something that has changed in-world, in-character. The addition of the dating scheme can be considered an OOC/mechanical adjustment; we used to be forced to ignore DR dating due to the high time scale making it unwieldy, and all this update does is provide support to make it okay OOCly to acknowledge and use it.
I have a suggestion. Why not make the time change a part of the Arelith's story rather than just treat it as an OOC mechanical change? Our PCs are in a world filled with magic & gods and mages can literally cast a spell that stops time. Why not have a big IC revelation during the Guldorand Launch Event and it turns out that the island was unknowingly stuck in a time loop? You could have a well known character, Elminster Aumar as an example, make an appearance and explain that the island of Arelith was literally stuck in the year(s) 1371/1372.

Perhaps it was magic gone awry or some sort of divine intervention by the gods. The latter would make sense seeing as how Arelith allows numerous planar deities that are actively prohibited in the rest of Toril. However you choose to explain the why, Elminster can then explain how to get Arelith back into normal time and have a little quest series leading up to the time update. Or you could just have him reveal that he just recently resolved the issue on his own if it's too much of a time crunch to get this running before the update.

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Re: The Time Update: FAQS/Read me!

Post by Hinty » Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:08 pm

On the subject of Skal and the freezing of the seas, there will need to be some sort of change, two RL months with the sea frozen over is a bit long, most players will have hit the level cap looooooooong before that time is up leaving them in an awkward situation. If the system was changed so the ice only freezes over through the 3 months of winter, it would instead be a 1 RL Month freeze, which is pretty approximate to what it is currently. It would mean that there would be less of a necessity for "thaw" characters to rush their leveling to get off the island before the freeze, having 3 RL months to do it in, but I feel that is the best solution I have come up with myself.

Alternatively, perhaps an Ice Sheet map could be made, on which characters that wish to leave the island, have to traverse the ice sheet, avoiding various snow and aquatic themed beasties and environmental hazards to reach a boat that periodically anchors itself off the edge and sends occasional skiffs to pick people up. Perhaps even having to camp out and wait for the boat to arrive?

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Re: The Time Update: FAQS/Read me!

Post by Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia » Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:18 pm

I've got another heap of updates to the master posts coming up to address the various questions raised, thanks for your patience!

Done.


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Re: The Time Update: FAQS/Read me!

Post by Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia » Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:11 pm

Quidix wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:10 am
I'd be curious how ore and herb spawn timers are affected?
They won't be affected, they already work off real time and will continue to do so. Ditto treasure chests, monster spawns, etc.
Flower Power wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:19 am
Was whether or not hour/lvl spells would use the new longer hour length as a QoL update, or if they'd be altered to be 6 turns/lvl to maintain their current duration ever decided?

And, apologies for nesting questions within questions here, if so will Zoobuff potions still be readily available from NPC merchants; if they will no longer be (given the fact they'd now last a RL hour each) will they be added to Herbalism?
No changes to any spells, with the likely exception of Spike Growth. I'll give details on that when I have it. No changes planned to potion availability.
Rico_scorpion wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:08 pm
Hey, gift of wealth states 5k per month, if time is slower, it means this gift gives that much less, or there's something that was done for it? thanks
This would be a pain in the Snuggybear to re-key all the things, sooo I'm just tripling the gold per IG month from 5000 to 15000. You're actually going to come out like a few percentage points behind, but not noticeably.
Hinty wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:08 pm
On the subject of Skal and the freezing of the seas, there will need to be some sort of change, two RL months with the sea frozen over is a bit long, most players will have hit the level cap looooooooong before that time is up leaving them in an awkward situation. If the system was changed so the ice only freezes over through the 3 months of winter, it would instead be a 1 RL Month freeze, which is pretty approximate to what it is currently. It would mean that there would be less of a necessity for "thaw" characters to rush their leveling to get off the island before the freeze, having 3 RL months to do it in, but I feel that is the best solution I have come up with myself.

Alternatively, perhaps an Ice Sheet map could be made, on which characters that wish to leave the island, have to traverse the ice sheet, avoiding various snow and aquatic themed beasties and environmental hazards to reach a boat that periodically anchors itself off the edge and sends occasional skiffs to pick people up. Perhaps even having to camp out and wait for the boat to arrive?
Going to Skal will have a longer winter restricted, yes, but leaving there will be possible year-round after this update. Ship is upgraded to an ice breaker and doesn't take folks back, call it what you will.

I'll update the master posts with these answers and some other content soon.

Done.


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Re: The Time Update: FAQS/Read me!

Post by Skibbles » Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:29 am

I don't see it asked here but what will happen when writing and then signing/dating an IG note? Will it use AR or DR, both, or will it be an option?
Irongron wrote: [...] the super-secret Arelith development roadmap is a post apocalyptic wasteland populated with competing tribes of hand-bombard wielding techno-giants, and strewn with the bones of long dead elves.

So we're very much on track.

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Re: The Time Update: FAQS/Read me!

Post by LasharaDyran » Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:04 am

Hi guys, please help, I am super confused.
Length of one IG year (10x timescale): 33.6 RL days
Length of three IG months (3x timescale): 28 RL days <--- this is the IG quarter
Length of four IG months (3x timescale): 37.33 RL days

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Settlements: Resource Consumption
Resource consumption for all settlements has been increased by ~20%. Before the changeover, resource stores and trade were processed once per IG year. Now they will be processed IG quarterly (4 times) over a year that is 3.3x longer. As stated above, a "triannual" resource/trade period would have been too confusing, so the extra resource consumption is the cost of convenience here. If this is deemed to be too much, we'll adjust resource drain per quarter downwards to compensate.
If the resource consumption time is decreasing from 33.6 RL days to 28 RL days, why is the resource consumption amount increasing 20%? Shouldn't it also be decreasing? I feel like I have missed something very obvious in the math, or perhaps misunderstood the meaning entirely.

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Re: The Time Update: FAQS/Read me!

Post by Baron Saturday » Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:13 am

If I'm reading that right, the 20% increase is because of the the resource consumption time decrease, not in addition to. In other words, going from 33 days to 28 days results in settlements consuming 20% more resources.
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Re: The Time Update: FAQS/Read me!

Post by LasharaDyran » Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:18 am

The resource consumption interval is decreasing by 24%
The way I am understanding it, we're expected to collect 120% of the resources in 76% of the time previously allotted in order to break even.

Is that what is intended? Am I completely lost here? ( I feel completely lost here).

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Re: The Time Update: FAQS/Read me!

Post by LasharaDyran » Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:28 am

Oh wait. Is the consumption amount staying the same but because it is a smaller time interval the consumption rate over time is what's increasing ~20%?

*facepalm*
I'm wiling to bet that's what is meant. Sorry for the confusion.

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Re: The Time Update: FAQS/Read me!

Post by Baron Saturday » Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:57 am

LasharaDyran wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:28 am
Oh wait. Is the consumption amount staying the same but because it is a smaller time interval the consumption rate over time is what's increasing ~20%?

*facepalm*
I'm wiling to bet that's what is meant. Sorry for the confusion.
Yup, that's what I meant!
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