Level 14 Start - Do you get the reward back?

[Talvenlapsi]

Like with any other award, you can for the first few levels delete the character and get refunded the reward. Is there such on the Level 14 start? Like, if you make the character, and decide it wasn't what you wanted like on the first level, do you get it back?

[DM Rex]

Presently no. Given that our refund system is built for those level 5 and under, taking the 14 level headstart invalidates this refund.
We highly recommend being sure of the build you're aiming for before spending for this reward, and our PGCC is a fantastic tool for it.

[Eira]

I was under the impression that if you took the level 14 start, but hadn't leveled past 5 yet, it could be refunded. At least one person mentioned doing that. Is that unintended then?

[Blossom]

You get the award back if you delete before leveling up like any other award character. I changed my mind about my Guld award character in the starting area, deleted (at level 1 or 2 forget which) and got my award back to remake. If you haven't used a Guld reward yet what happens is you are taken to an office there when you enter the game and then level up to 14, it is not automatic on taking the reward so you could delete and get the reward back any time until you start leveling.

Rex probably thinks the OP meant if you change your mind at first playable level (14).

[Hazard]

I thought the level 14 start was over, and part of the Guldorand opening event.

How long is this level 14 start going to stay in the game?

[Blossom]

Seems like it is remaining as an option for normal rewards. Hope it stays permanently as I love it.

[Hazard]

I can see why it's really nice for some people, but I have some concerns for the long-term impact this could have on the server.
Especially at only a normal reward. Leveling is already ridiculously fast and easy on Arelith, every player is essentially guaranteed a normal reward at max level.

If anything I think at the very least characters that skip so much leveling should be barred from being able to roll for rewards at deletion, to prevent yet another case of "humility warlocks/druids." That was just awful for the RP quality of the server.

[Blossom]

Or you could look at it as encouraging non-special races on the surface (as that's all you can make) and giving players with decreasing amounts of time to play a way to delete an existing character and get back into the most active parts of the game relatively quickly.

Or letting people try out characters they may not otherwise because they don't want to spend weeks and months leveling a pirate if they aren't sure it's for them, but if you can start at level 14 it's not such a big deal if you don't like it. I wouldn't have taken a risk on the character I made if I couldn't start at 14 and turns out I'm glad I did.

Edit: Also, if it went away you could still take ECL -2 on a 0-gift character if you really wanted to grind quickly for an award. That would probably be faster in the long run anyway if someone really wanted a Major award so badly (which I think aren't even all that enticing now anyway since AFAIK you can't make make special requests any more)

There's pros and cons to everything but this seems like a nice thing to me especially for busy adult players with limited time to level.

[Eira]

It also promotes more turnover of characters. I only have 6 hours a week to play. Like hell am I going to do Cordor sewers for the hundredth time. I want to spend what little leisure time I have roleplaying and be able to actually go places, not grind out through the same first few levels that I could do in my sleep- and thus put me to sleep to try and level.

So until I have more playtime, which probably won't be for a year or more, I can't bring myself to make a new lvl 3 PC. But lvl 14? That's doable.

[DM Rex]

I thought the level 14 start was over, and part of the Guldorand opening event.

How long is this level 14 start going to stay in the game?

This award is to remain in game until further notice. The event itself actually gave people who logged in on the corresponding launch dates a free normal award. But the level 14 start will be an ongoing feature.

[AstralUniverse]

I can see why it's really nice for some people, but I have some concerns for the long-term impact this could have on the server.
Especially at only a normal reward. Leveling is already ridiculously fast and easy on Arelith, every player is essentially guaranteed a normal reward at max level.

If anything I think at the very least characters that skip so much leveling should be barred from being able to roll for rewards at deletion, to prevent yet another case of "humility warlocks/druids." That was just awful for the RP quality of the server.

Apology, I dont mean to derail, but I guess I'm slightly derailing the thread as I have to put a bit of context here...

lvl 14 start is free 88k exp. It is roughly double than the exp you'll get from -2 ecl between levels 3 and 26 so this lvl 14 start is a dream for major award grinders.

[Reallylongunneededplayername]

Yeah, I'm agreeing with the "This is going to be abused" moreso than -ELC rewards.

I agree with that lvl 14 reward should not be able to be rolled for a reward and in that form should stay as an option.

And aside some fair arguments that apply to a few players: Why would you give up that low level goodness?

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

I can see why it's really nice for some people, but I have some concerns for the long-term impact this could have on the server.
Especially at only a normal reward. Leveling is already ridiculously fast and easy on Arelith, every player is essentially guaranteed a normal reward at max level.

If anything I think at the very least characters that skip so much leveling should be barred from being able to roll for rewards at deletion, to prevent yet another case of "humility warlocks/druids." That was just awful for the RP quality of the server.

Apology, I dont mean to derail, but I guess I'm slightly derailing the thread as I have to put a bit of context here...

lvl 14 start is free 88k exp. It is roughly double than the exp you'll get from -2 ecl between levels 3 and 26 so this lvl 14 start is a dream for major award grinders.

By hard numbers, this is accurate. By context, it's a misguided notion.

The free 88K XP you're talking about comes between the levels of creation and level 14. Coincidentally, these are frequently the levels that hardcore grinders spend almost zero time talking in an effort to level to a point they consider "tenable" for entry-level RP. They also fly by the fastest with minimal risk. The remainder, who are just going to grind to 30 with further minimal RP to roll for a reward anyway, will now spend that much less time being a body on the server running around and ignoring everything around them.

Is making the power grinders take one or two extra days to reach their peak worth having to compete with them for low-level resources when they aren't RP'ing with anyone during the process? Even if it's three or four days, all the more reason to free up the lower level resources for people immersing themselves in the world.

Taking away their ability to roll would, in my opinion, be a form of cutting off your nose to spite your own face.

I have zero awards- and also zero characters in multiple years that've reached level 30, so it's not like I'm arguing this point to help out the power grinders (or myself).

[DM Rex]

What this reward can be is a great way to kind of slide through the lower level grind, which for some can be quick, and others a bit tedious.

While rewards can be nice, even getting a major award character but not having a lot of roleplay to go along with it will ultimately be a very lonely character.

[Blossom]

Something I really like is being able to enter the game as a character who can claim they are a wizard and they aren't just some schlub with an empty spellbook. Being able to play someone of basic competency from the get-go is great. I've been playing NWN for almost 20 years now and like with Batman movies I don't need to see the same origin stories on my Arelith characters over and over, it's nice to get right to the main story.

I understand there are power grinders out there. But maybe we don't have to obsess on the negative every single time. There are a lot of positives to this especially for players who don't have as much time to play as they used to. I'm very thankful it was added and hope it stays.

[DM Rex]

I love this attitude.

[Curve]

Yeah, my play time is low and this reward allowed me to start a poor but competent thief. It is also nice for characters that need two or three classes to get off the ground. I am a fan.

[Maladus]

I personally don't see the big problem with someone power grinding to 30 for a 5% roll if that's what they want to do. I can honestly say that over the course of my many years here I've never interacted with a single person who has done this. Or if I have, I had no idea I had. The only way they could possibly impact my gameplay is if they all get the Major Awards and lock out an award that I'd actually try for but since I've yet to get a 5% they haven't impacted me personally in the slightest.

[Talvenlapsi]

I personally don't see the big problem with someone power grinding to 30 for a 5% roll if that's what they want to do. I can honestly say that over the course of my many years here I've never interacted with a single person who has done this. Or if I have, I had no idea I had.

You have no idea - you've just not realized it. There are so many people who have, or, are actively grinding to 26 to roll for 5%, that it's not even secret. Many people have constantly so called 'roll alt' they're levelling to 26 to roll for award, because the award system is very punishing and does not reward proper, good, long-term RP, but that's another can of worms that shouldn't be opened on this thread.

[Deryliss]

Fond memories of adventuring in a group, going through the Aurilite temple, when suddenly one of the party characters clutches at the chest and keels over dead, then deletes his character with an ooc apology that he'd just hit 26 and it was time to roll.

[Blossom]

5% customized races aren't given out any more unless that's on the secret menu and nobody told me. This had to have cut that behavior down significantly. I am sure some out there are grinding for tieflings and vampires but there couldn't possibly be nearly as many grinders as there used to be when you'd get your own personalized special concept.

I would expect what is more common now is grinding a character you are tired of to 26 for the best possible reward but that's not really the same thing at all.

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

5% customized races aren't given out any more unless that's on the secret menu and nobody told me. This had to have cut that behavior down significantly. I am sure some out there are grinding for tieflings and vampires but there couldn't possibly be nearly as many grinders as there used to be when you'd get your own personalized special concept.

I would expect what is more common now is grinding a character you are tired of to 26 for the best possible reward but that's not really the same thing at all.

I don't agree, although I'd like to.

You speak as if no reasonable person would give of their time in such a fashion since it would be a waste, and whether or not you're correct is open to interpretation; but I will say this; games like League of Legends, for example, make a monetary killing on offering skins that can be purchased with money. I find it equally likely that a system that rewards 'unique' features, much less ones that have mechanical advantages, for time spent, is likely to be used and taken advantage of.

And that's fine- it's not against the rules, afaik, and Arelith caters to different playing types.

It is, however, my personal opinion, that rolls should remain open to characters using the level 14 reward to get to rolling faster, because those characters are otherwise forced into the low level environment where other people who are trying to take a slower pace through a scene will almost certainly find them inconvenient.

Neither side is wrong, it's simply the unfortunate dichotomy of an open sandbox.

The current system allows both sides to have their cake, and eat it, too. I think it's a good one, and should stay. (Edit: Although food for another thread, it's arguable that those who take longer and immerse themselves more might get some kind of boost to keep speed with those churning out multiple rolls every few months? That's also a giant can of worms that probably isn't good for this thread.)

[Blossom]

I don't have a problem with any of that and I don't think you get what I was saying in the first place. Level 14 start is great, it's a blessing for us with less time to play, and I think the fear of grinders is overblown now that unique races are off the table. That's it. No judgements, I just want to keep this nice thing.

[Dreams]

This is my favourite reward. It means I can get immediately into the character. I definitely think this sort of reward should have a timer on it for people who need to rebuild/remake due to a mistake. 1 RL day is enough for someone this level to reconsider.