Opening tombs in the game

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Cabarcos
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Opening tombs in the game

Post by Cabarcos » Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:52 pm

I have my doubts about what kind or person will open a tomb, in the game of course :), to try to get some loot.
If you are a dungeon crawler and when you get to the end of it and there is only a sarcophagus, not a chest?
The only places I have found where you can use the shovel are tombs. It's tempting, but usually I doesn't open them. Let the dead rest, etc.

A neutral/good character will do it or will be considered something on the evil side?

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Re: Opening tombs in the game

Post by The GrumpyCat » Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:30 pm

Honestly that's very case by case. I guess yeah probbaly in most cases it's more towards the evil spectrum? Slightly? But I really wouldn't sweat over it unless you a pc who activly really wouldn't do that sort of thing. (e.g. Paladin of Kelemvor)
This too shall pass.

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Re: Opening tombs in the game

Post by Party in the forest at midnight » Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:29 pm

For me I figure a ancient crypt dungeon is fair game. I highly doubt any bodies are being buried in the Sibayad valley of the dead, especially the dungeon with dig spots which is by far the hardest one. To me it's more like Indiana Jones fantasy ruins exploration than it is graverobbing. But if you play a Kelemvorite you can definitely raise issue with it- That'd be a great IC point of conflict to raise up.

On the other hand there's actual grave robbing spots in a few graveyards across the server, where players put graves and where people still bury their dead. That's definitely evil graverobbing.

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Re: Opening tombs in the game

Post by Archnon » Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:09 pm

A good player may subscribe to the ideology that coins from the dead are better redistributed to the needy. Or perhaps that holding wealth in death is immoral.

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Re: Opening tombs in the game

Post by Marsi » Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:19 pm

Personally, I don't like the trappings of adventure/PvE being interrogated too deeply. There's a point where you just have to accept you're playing D&D.

Self-imposed challenges can be really interesting. But holding someone *else* accountable for simply interacting with the game like its a game is really lame. I'm not a big fan of personal, and often quite violent, crusades against unchanging game mechanics, especially in low-level areas or concerning low-level mechanics.

Why should the great bell of Beaulieu toll when the shadows were neither short nor long?


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Re: Opening tombs in the game

Post by Hazard » Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:21 pm

You can spin it many ways, depending on the dungeon and motive of character.
Is this a tomb you're robbing, or is it an undead-infested place of mourning that you're CLEANSING, by putting to rest this evil?
Is taking resources from undead creatures, tomb robbing, or the same as stealing from a fresh corpse?
If so, then will liches, vampires, mummies, skeletons, ghosts loot also be off limits?
There's a lot of ways anything can be made good or evil.

If you are prying open actual tombs with just dead bodies inside (no undead) and taking their stuff, then I would say that could possibly lean towards evil, or at the very least chaotic because you are going against, if not certain laws then, some traditions.

I think there's ways you could play it as not evil, but it could be a bit of a challenge, and it will certainly still be upsetting to many other characters.

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Re: Opening tombs in the game

Post by Straxus » Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:04 pm

So my take, and it is just that, my opinion.

I have no issue with a good/lawful... especially a paladin, raising an eyebrow at people wandering cemeteries basically stealing from the dead (in their eyes.) I have run into this, never had a bad RP experience with it, all how you spin your intent with those.

So, as for evil? Could they be robbing Graves? Less likely for valuable loot, and more for bodies... but even an evil character could spin it into their favor.

Now mind you, a true neutral character could do either of these things without any problems moral wise, so long as there is a benefit, and if they are wiley enough, could convince a Palidan to help them, or have no issue helping an evil guy out with some monetary benefit of course.

That is the beauty of RP, or the gift of BS.

As long as you know your characters motives, and you can figure out the motives of others, anything can be benificial... even scouring a cemetery with a Palidan at your side.

But game mechanics PVE allow for even Palidans to go tromping through a crypt, at that point, your RP is the only real thing holding you back... Or at least it should be.

Let's be honest... where do evil characters go to get healing supplies?

The same place everyone else does.
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Re: Opening tombs in the game

Post by Cabarcos » Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:34 am

Thanks for the answers, they make sense.
I suppose that usually is "fine" and sometimes it's not depending on the moment. With one of my PJ have once a nice encounter with an undead captain that ended with the captain buried where he had a nice wiew of the sea, to put him to rest. After that he doesn't opened any tomb, but not every person has the same experiences or motives.

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Re: Opening tombs in the game

Post by Straxus » Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:18 am

That sounds like a great story though
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Re: Opening tombs in the game

Post by Cabarcos » Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:00 am

Straxus wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:18 am
That sounds like a great story though
Yeah, it was. Tymora was with me that day.
I was looking for a shortsword and got a nice one out the the of the captain's undead cold hands.
After that, we talked for a bit and I was able to give him a deserved rest, in a hill with a view to the sea.

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Re: Opening tombs in the game

Post by Hinty » Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:31 pm

Very much depends.

There are digging spots to be found in graveyards right next to active settlements that are clearly still using them. Digging those graves up and emptying them? You better be evil, because no character that has spent more than a couple of hours on the server will ever be desperate enough for money for it to be acceptable from neutral or good.

Ones in ancient tombs home to the dead of long forgotten civilizations like those near Sibiyad? Go ahead. I'll not frown on a character who frowns on it as grave robbing, nor a character who thinks it is acceptable no matter their alignment.

Then there are the digging spots on the graves in the Ghostwood of Skaljard. I've seen plenty of people frown on people digging these up, but these are, to my mind absolutely acceptable. The woods are full of undead, there is no way the people of the village are risking the swarms of zombies to bury people there so their loved ones can be animated by the magics in the wood. Those graves are clearly old. Very old, and since it is constantly snowing, when you come across a fresh dug grave, that thing wasn't dug to bury someone. Someone is hiding loot. No one hides legit valuables in a zombie infested forest.

So yeah. There is no absolute "All digging graves/tombs is evil" or "No good aligned char will ever dig a tomb/grave".
There are some "Good aligned chars should never dig THIS PARTICULAR SPOT" situations (even these cases might have specific exceptions based on plot/situation)
There are some "Only evil folk will ever dig this spot" situations.


There are also some "Look, lets make a small exception for gameplay reasons" things too, I mean, should a Paladin really be looting chests in any tomb no matter how old? What about the jewelry on undead? Shouldn't he be burying/burning them with the corpse?
I'm certainly not going to hold that against people because:
a) looting is such an instinctive part of playing RPGs we all do it without thought and as players few if any of us ever consider the morality, and even those of us who have from time to time don't tend to constantly.
and b) lets face it, we all need money to keep adventuring, especially at low levels.

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Re: Opening tombs in the game

Post by Straxus » Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:14 am

Hinty wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:31 pm
Very much depends.

There are digging spots to be found in graveyards right next to active settlements that are clearly still using them. Digging those graves up and emptying them? You better be evil, because no character that has spent more than a couple of hours on the server will ever be desperate enough for money for it to be acceptable from neutral or good.

Ones in ancient tombs home to the dead of long forgotten civilizations like those near Sibiyad? Go ahead. I'll not frown on a character who frowns on it as grave robbing, nor a character who thinks it is acceptable no matter their alignment.

Then there are the digging spots on the graves in the Ghostwood of Skaljard. I've seen plenty of people frown on people digging these up, but these are, to my mind absolutely acceptable. The woods are full of undead, there is no way the people of the village are risking the swarms of zombies to bury people there so their loved ones can be animated by the magics in the wood. Those graves are clearly old. Very old, and since it is constantly snowing, when you come across a fresh dug grave, that thing wasn't dug to bury someone. Someone is hiding loot. No one hides legit valuables in a zombie infested forest.

So yeah. There is no absolute "All digging graves/tombs is evil" or "No good aligned char will ever dig a tomb/grave".
There are some "Good aligned chars should never dig THIS PARTICULAR SPOT" situations (even these cases might have specific exceptions based on plot/situation)
There are some "Only evil folk will ever dig this spot" situations.


There are also some "Look, lets make a small exception for gameplay reasons" things too, I mean, should a Paladin really be looting chests in any tomb no matter how old? What about the jewelry on undead? Shouldn't he be burying/burning them with the corpse?
I'm certainly not going to hold that against people because:
a) looting is such an instinctive part of playing RPGs we all do it without thought and as players few if any of us ever consider the morality, and even those of us who have from time to time don't tend to constantly.
and b) lets face it, we all need money to keep adventuring, especially at low levels.
I now have the urge to make a Paladin who does not loot corpses. Lol.
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Re: Opening tombs in the game

Post by Xarge VI » Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:44 am

The main difference between an archaeologist and a burglar is patience.

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Re: Opening tombs in the game

Post by Cabarcos » Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:47 am

Hinty wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:31 pm
Very much depends.

There are digging spots to be found in graveyards right next to active settlements that are clearly still using them. Digging those graves up and emptying them? You better be evil, because no character that has spent more than a couple of hours on the server will ever be desperate enough for money for it to be acceptable from neutral or good.

Ones in ancient tombs home to the dead of long forgotten civilizations like those near Sibiyad? Go ahead. I'll not frown on a character who frowns on it as grave robbing, nor a character who thinks it is acceptable no matter their alignment.
...
Not much to add to this post, well explained and makes sense.

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Re: Opening tombs in the game

Post by Straxus » Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:38 pm

Xarge VI wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:44 am
The main difference between an archaeologist and a burglar is patience.
Yes!
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Re: Opening tombs in the game

Post by Nitro » Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:07 am

In D&D morality is absolute. You have a cosmological axis of good and evil. In real life, this is not the case which makes determining what is the absolute morality of D&D very hard. Is is evil to dig up a corpse to take the things they were buried with? Is it evil to loot a freshly slain corpse? Some could rightly argue that it's more evil to bury a corpse with a bunch of valuable goods rather than turning them to a productive purpose. It all comes down to what morality the person considering the question holds.

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Re: Opening tombs in the game

Post by Cabarcos » Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:28 pm

Nitro wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:07 am
In D&D morality is absolute.
...
Yes, and I think that it's difficult to adapt our way of thinking, values, etc to that. As the rules and nwn is adapted to be playable in the server, maybe the same would be need to be done with that. It's not the same to use the rules for an adventure that for an approximation to reality that you can try to have on the server.

Things are not black or white, there are a lot of grey.

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