Page 1 of 4
Sail
Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 3:45 pm
by helitron
Is there a reason the sail skill is only available to 6 classes?
How is that different to e.g. ride which is available to all classes?
Although this was not released yet, I am wondering how this will affect many Sencliff players that rely on using ships for writs and don't necessary fulfil the sail requirements with their builds.
Re: Sail
Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 5:15 pm
by Hinty
I would like to see this skill added to Rangers, since ocean/coast/river etc rangers are a thing.
Would also like to see it added to Shaman for the same reason, and perhaps clerics since there are a few deities who's clerics would reasonably be expected to have the skills to sail.
Also Bards? Jack of all trades wanderers have a fairly good claim on being able to learn it.
Re: Sail
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 1:09 pm
by FallenDabus
Will Sail receive the feats skill focus: sail and epic skill focus: sail by chance? Currently, these do not appear to be available.
Re: Sail
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 2:19 pm
by Irongron
I expect so. Action Replay has already coded much of the new sail skill functionality, which should be released very soon.
Re: Sail
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 3:43 pm
by FallenDabus
Awesome. Thank you for the quick reply!
Re: Sail
Posted: Fri May 21, 2021 3:23 pm
by Flower Power
Irongron wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 2:19 pm
I expect so. Action Replay has already coded much of the new sail skill functionality, which should be released very soon.
Before the time limit on free rebuilds runs out?
Re: Sail
Posted: Fri May 21, 2021 3:46 pm
by Waldo52
I second the ranger idea. The whole elven archer or Robinhood in the woods image of the class can get really tiring. There have always been sea rangers.
Re: Sail
Posted: Sat May 22, 2021 4:50 pm
by xanrael
Just going to use the current thread and give a PvE use case to see if I understand things correctly. Going to ignore crit failure/success with this example.
Rent one of the pirate ships with plans to do a writ with 0 sail by myself. I'm going to sail through 3 quadrants and then sit in that 1 quadrant in hopes of getting a particular writ encounter.
1, Board the ship and set sail, fail the first sailing check (assuming an initial one is made, maybe not) +1 min to get out of that quadrant.
2. Enter new quadrant, +1 minute as fail the sailing check.
3. Enter the last quadrant where I'm going to be patrolling in hopes of getting the writ location, +1 minute to leave it but I'm here.
4. Patrol that quadrant for however long, no change in chance to get that writ location.
5. Head back to prior quadrant, fail sailing check so +1 minute.
6. Return to Sencliff's quadrant and dock.
So having a 0 in Sail adds around 4 minutes for my journey from baseline. A fully crewed ship with max sail per sailor could save 8 minutes there. The "expert sailors" will also have no boarding events and gain XP for them instead. As far as getting the writ though if both ships are staying out for 1.5 - 2 hours it doesn't do much to shift the chances it seems.
Maybe this isn't the ideal method and perhaps sailing between quadrant A2 and B2 over and over would increase the number of locations "spawned" where the +1/-1 minute would make a significant difference over the entire voyage.
Re: Sail
Posted: Sat May 22, 2021 5:15 pm
by ActionReplay
FallenDabus wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 1:09 pm
Will Sail receive the feats skill focus: sail and epic skill focus: sail by chance? Currently, these do not appear to be available.
Sail replaced Craft Trap. So you can take that Feat for skill focuses, epic or otherwise and it will increase your Sail Rank. We haven't updated the text for this one yet though. But mechanically it will work as a bonus for Sailing.
Re: Sail
Posted: Sat May 22, 2021 5:20 pm
by ActionReplay
xanrael wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 4:50 pm
...
Not sure what the question is but if you are talking about Writ hunting specifically then yeah I don't think Sail in general may do much for you to find a specific Writ other than saving some time and getting Experience while doing so.
Encounters are random based on quadrant. You'll know what encounters / events can spawn for a quadrant with the Spyglass feature from the Navigator. This information in itself requires no sail skill.
I may add an option to increase specific events (based on quadrant) that could be based on Sail skill or something.
Re: Sail
Posted: Sat May 22, 2021 5:21 pm
by LichBait
Is Sail intended to be a Wisdom based skill check? It seems to be working that way presently. Thanks in advance!
Re: Sail
Posted: Sat May 22, 2021 5:45 pm
by ActionReplay
LichBait wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 5:21 pm
Is Sail intended to be a Wisdom based skill check? It seems to be working that way presently. Thanks in advance!
Yes, correct. Its based on Wisdom like the Profession Skill (Sail).
Re: Sail
Posted: Sat May 22, 2021 6:03 pm
by xanrael
ActionReplay wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 5:20 pm
xanrael wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 4:50 pm
...
Not sure what the question is but if you are talking about Writ hunting specifically then yeah I don't think Sail in general may do much for you to find a specific Writ other than saving some time and getting Experience while doing so.
Encounters are random based on quadrant. You'll know what encounters / events can spawn for a quadrant with the Spyglass feature from the Navigator. This information in itself requires no sail skill.
I may add an option to increase specific events (based on quadrant) that could be based on Sail skill or something.
It was more "is my use case correct?" As far as specific questions, is the initial quadrant the ship is docked at subject to the +1/-1 minute check or does that not count as entering the quadrant?
As far as feedback, I think having something that encourages people to do the writs together would help Sencliff at least as assuming one can handle the encounters there isn't any real incentive to take anyone else along and that can keep a rental boat tied up for a good length of time. On the other hand I wouldn't want to see a min crew required put on them as they may not be much activity at off-hours.
What you suggested would be cool, or successful checks increase the frequency of locations being spotted or whatever could work as well.
Re: Sail
Posted: Sat May 22, 2021 6:21 pm
by LichBait
ActionReplay wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 5:45 pm
LichBait wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 5:21 pm
Is Sail intended to be a Wisdom based skill check? It seems to be working that way presently. Thanks in advance!
Yes, correct. Its based on Wisdom like the Profession Skill (Sail).
Makes sense, thanks!
Re: Sail
Posted: Sat May 22, 2021 6:21 pm
by helitron
I think it would be good to not tie the sail skill to a few classes only, but open it for all classes that want to invest into that. Very similar to ride.
The way how sailing is now, it will hit crews that are not big enough to have at least 4-5 lvl 30 with maxed out sail skill. Looking at the population of Sencliff as an example, not every one will be able to max sail out and it's also quite often hard to find a crew big enough to sail, even without implementation of the skill. It somehow establishes a situation where players will not risk taking a ship out to sail (after all the expensive investments to upgrade it) if they don't meet the criteria or max out sail because of potential PvP at sea and the risk to loose the ship.
Re: Sail
Posted: Sat May 22, 2021 7:00 pm
by xanrael
Another question, do only PCs count for these checks? (My assumption was yes as players were specifically mentioned but thought I'd make sure) So you don't have to worry about summons/dominates/companions/henchmen bringing down the average or inflating the crew size.
Re: Sail
Posted: Sat May 22, 2021 7:30 pm
by Duchess Says
helitron wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 6:21 pm
I think it would be good to not tie the sail skill to a few classes only, but open it for all classes that want to invest into that. Very similar to ride.
The way how sailing is now, it will hit crews that are not big enough to have at least 4-5 lvl 30 with maxed out sail skill. Looking at the population of Sencliff as an example, not every one will be able to max sail out and it's also quite often hard to find a crew big enough to sail, even without implementation of the skill. It somehow establishes a situation where players will not risk taking a ship out to sail (after all the expensive investments to upgrade it) if they don't meet the criteria or max out sail because of potential PvP at sea and the risk to loose the ship.
I agree. Sailing seems a very complicated and very niche system that you have to really want to learn and play. I'm looking at all the details and I'm thinking... This is like learning to play a second and entirely different game (one I wish I had time for, but I don't right now, maybe in there future). That's not a complaint but I can't really see a lot of players who don't care about occasionally sailing investing points. Why not just open it up to everyone, as many classes could have a reason for knowing how? A pure 30 cleric of umberlee for example ought to know how to sail without having to dip just for that.
(This probably isn't possible but I could also see any character starting in Sencliff being able to take the sail skill? Or just giving them a permanent +15 points soft skill bonus for signing the pirate contract so they can cross-class invest to 32?)
Re: Sail
Posted: Sat May 22, 2021 7:42 pm
by Nitro
It doesn't seem that complicated though? It's just a skill check made across a group. Hardly anything like learning to play a second different game.
Re: Sail
Posted: Sat May 22, 2021 8:05 pm
by Duchess Says
Well I am talking ships in general not just the skill. It's like a side game with its own set of rules that you can skip until you're ready.
Re: Sail
Posted: Sat May 22, 2021 8:19 pm
by ActionReplay
xanrael wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 6:03 pm
ActionReplay wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 5:20 pm
xanrael wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 4:50 pm
...
It was more "is my use case correct?" As far as specific questions, is the initial quadrant the ship is docked at subject to the +1/-1 minute check or does that not count as entering the quadrant?
Yeah you're pretty accurate with that use-case. The first quadrant though will not be taken into consideration for the roll when setting off initially. Like not any initial Voyage roll, but something we may add in the future. Potentially with varying DCs if you take off from a Dock / Port vs middle of the sea in a storm.
Re: Sail
Posted: Sat May 22, 2021 8:20 pm
by ActionReplay
xanrael wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 7:00 pm
Another question, do only PCs count for these checks? (My assumption was yes as players were specifically mentioned but thought I'd make sure) So you don't have to worry about summons/dominates/companions/henchmen bringing down the average or inflating the crew size.
Only PCs at the moment, yep.
Re: Sail
Posted: Sat May 22, 2021 9:17 pm
by Mister Badhorse
I also find the class restriction a bit disappointing. Aside from that, it seems very cool, and I'd probably invest in it for a pirate character.
The idea of a soft bonus to sail for pirates, perhaps something like +2 per pirate rank, could be cool
Re: Sail
Posted: Sat May 22, 2021 10:02 pm
by ActionReplay
Mister Badhorse wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 9:17 pm
I also find the class restriction a bit disappointing. Aside from that, it seems very cool, and I'd probably invest in it for a pirate character.
The idea of a soft bonus to sail for pirates, perhaps something like +2 per pirate rank, could be cool
Absolutely something we can look into. As for Sailing being class restricted is more an Irongron question but I think he may be open to allow more classes to have it.
Re: Sail
Posted: Sat May 22, 2021 10:12 pm
by lordgaist
Problem we are having on the Leviathan is that almost everyone who is interested in sailing rp is a pirate. Getting a six man crew on at once with the Leviathan is becoming quite the feat.
Re: Sail
Posted: Sat May 22, 2021 10:17 pm
by lordgaist
Mister Badhorse wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 9:17 pm
I also find the class restriction a bit disappointing. Aside from that, it seems very cool, and I'd probably invest in it for a pirate character.
The idea of a soft bonus to sail for pirates, perhaps something like +2 per pirate rank, could be cool
Hopefully there would be some counter balance to that. As it is there is about only one non pirate ship out verse numerous pirate ships and crews. With the current six person crew for the Leviathan its going to be extremely difficult to get out there as is and less interest in going out there if the pirates have a massive skill boost against us including multiple ships engaging us at once. Repairs are costly.. and the risk of repairs is alright. But the guaranteed sinking and having to repair is something that would surely keep the Leviathan in dock 99.9% of the time.