Shop Rental Question - Is this Legal

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time_limited
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Shop Rental Question - Is this Legal

Post by time_limited » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:26 am

Hi,

With all the changes to quarters and shops buying/selling I wanted to confirm something before proposing it ICly to other characters.

Is it Legal to rent out Your shop spaces to someone ?

Specific Case:
I have and maintain a shop.
I was approached IC by a character that would like to acquire a shop and has taken an interest in my own shop.
I am considering to propose a rental agreement to the said character as I am actively playing my character who owns the shop and don't intend to sell my shop BUT I could allow the interested party to rent spaces in my shop on a temporary basis and under a specific fee and RP benefits that my character could gain in this deal - obviously arranged in IC.


Now the question is this legal now?
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Re: Shop Rental Question - Is this Legal

Post by Good Character » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:03 am

"In other words, please do not play Real Estate Agent, or you will see your property you are "Real Estating" released. Thank you!" - Wiki

With that in mind likely not. I would definitely hold off on this lease until a DM gives their input.

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Flower Power
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Re: Shop Rental Question - Is this Legal

Post by Flower Power » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:34 am

Why would this be against the rules? It gets more use out of a property that is apparently being under utilized (filling a shop w/30 slots worth of useful and worthwhile stuff can be difficult to do for anyone that isn't just spamming out wands and potions and scrolls) and encourages interaction between players. Factions do this all the time, in one form or another, with varying degrees of transactionality.

I've personally done this myself, several times, across multiple characters. Heck, at one point I had a character who owned one shop and was selling other peoples' stuff out of it on commission while also renting space/stocking four other peoples' shops simultaneously. It's never been an issue in the past.

The only no-no activities that I'm aware of for shops are:
A) Using them as storage chests, or
B) Stocking them w/player's skulls, or
C) Owning multiple

I'm pretty sure that the warning that was being referred to was a warning against buying properties explicitly just to sell them for a profit - something that hasn't been possible to do for awhile now.
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Re: Shop Rental Question - Is this Legal

Post by MRFTW » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:49 am

Bring back head shops

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Re: Shop Rental Question - Is this Legal

Post by Archnon » Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:08 pm

Selling shops for profit is also a no no.

However I've down this as well on both the rentoer and rentee end and it is a great way to build RP. Maybe your characters become friends. Maybe from a simple beginning you build a business empire, hiring slaves and grunt workers at no pay. Maybe you partner rolls his character first but comes.back to haunt you to warn you of your crimes against humanity. The story really writes itself from there

Absolutely rent space in your shop, so long as you are still putting stuff in there too.

time_limited
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Re: Shop Rental Question - Is this Legal

Post by time_limited » Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:20 pm

Yes I know that it DID work like this and its a great thing for both parties.. I just don't want to step on some rule by accident due to the recent shop/quarter changes and that's why I am looking for an official stand on this.
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Party in the forest at midnight
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Re: Shop Rental Question - Is this Legal

Post by Party in the forest at midnight » Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:54 pm

I don't think it's against the rules. The stuff about real estate is specifically about auctioning properties or just buying to resell. In contrast, this is about letting other players use a shop for a fee, where the owner of the shop is also still using it. There are other players who have done similar things to this in the past. In fact I read something once from a dev who said players should share properties more, in response to the lack of enough shops for everyone.

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Re: Shop Rental Question - Is this Legal

Post by ltlukoziuz » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:26 pm

I'm conflicted. It's great RP, but it could also easily be abused.

A) rent 20 spaces in 2 shops
B) own a shop and rent another one for more space
C) do above but on different characters


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Re: Shop Rental Question - Is this Legal

Post by The GrumpyCat » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:30 pm

Hrmmm... off hand, at this moment, I would say that that sounds fine so long as the following things are true.

a) That you are ACTIVLY PLAYING your character. If you arn't activly playing a character then really you shouldn't be owning property in general, reguardless if your renting/letting other folk use it ect.
b) That the agreement is made IC (not entirely organized over Discord)
c) That the 'rent' you give isn't exhorbitant. ('Why yes, for one hundred thousand gold per month, you can rent five slots in my shop!)
A) rent 20 spaces in 2 shops
B) own a shop and rent another one for more space
C) do above but on different characters
Good points, but you still have to find folk activly willign to do this with you - and it requires a lot of organization unless the shop setup has changed drastically in thte last few months without my notice. If you have the goods, and the coordination to be able to do this with other charcters (And pretty much entirely IC) then uh, good for you I guess?
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Re: Shop Rental Question - Is this Legal

Post by Edens_Fall » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:00 pm

It's a pretty common situation from my experience and a great way to generate merchant RP and getting new players involved. Generally I would rent the shop for say 10% of the profit. Setting the other persons faction to the shop with a 90% tax rate. Thus giving them access to the shop and 90% of all money earned.

It works pretty well

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Re: Shop Rental Question - Is this Legal

Post by Aelryn Bloodmoon » Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:20 pm

Grumpy seems to be fine with this as long as you're actively playing, so I'd presume the rest of the team is. I can't imagine why this would be a problem.

1: It's interactive, and facilitates organic RP (as long as, like Grumpy mentions, the arrangement is made IC and not OOC).
2: You are not holding multiple properties.
3: It's not against the rules for you to purchase a quarter and then allow someone else in it, whether that be for free, or after charging them (perhaps even monthly) for a key to access the property. In fact, most people call such a place an inn.

4: People have been offering friends the chance to sell their goods in their shops on Arelith for years, except rather than charge rent for the spaces, they typically just put the item up themselves and charge a percentage commission. Or they do it for free b/c they're doing it for a friend and their shop stock isn't full, so it's mutually beneficial in settlements that have a government shop audit to ensure settlement tax revenue.

You might draw less sideways glances by using the term "commission" rather than "rent." You may also find more people willing to play along that way, since rent implies they pay you whether they make anything or not, but commission implies you both make money when you're both successful.
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Re: Shop Rental Question - Is this Legal

Post by Echohawk » Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:30 pm

It's a fine line between a faction using a shop and supplying it, and someone renting space in it. Ultimately characters that own things have to be active (and interactive). Some folks go the whole supplier/distributor route and put out 'will buy' signs for their convenience. In this way it actually makes it more interactive in my book.

But obviously a degree of trust goes into the owner you're selling through to make sure you get your fair share. But all in all, obviously with the higher ups backing, seems fine.
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Re: Shop Rental Question - Is this Legal

Post by Eyeliner » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:19 pm

Unless I'm misreading this you're just talking about selling things on consignment? I thought that was outright encouraged.

time_limited
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Re: Shop Rental Question - Is this Legal

Post by time_limited » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:34 pm

Thanks for the answers everyone they explain everything i needed, I think this thread can now be closed.
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Re: Shop Rental Question - Is this Legal

Post by Wethrinea » Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:17 am

I believe this is one of the main functions of factions?

I do this myself, where my char har created what is essentially a small merchant faction where other characters are given a number of slots (5 for example) where they may put whatever they like. If it sells, they access the faction bank account and withdraw the proceeds, minus a fee (taxes plus rent).

It works wonders, and encourages interactions.
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Re: Shop Rental Question - Is this Legal

Post by AstralUniverse » Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:14 pm

you own the shop. you are following the rules. It's all good. You can give 'space' in the shop to whomever you like. and you are expected to RP it in game. That's about it. 'real-estate'-ing doesnt exist anymore.
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