Do our characters know when their deities intervene?

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SCP-079
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Do our characters know when their deities intervene?

Post by SCP-079 » Sat Sep 18, 2021 12:06 am

I've heard different things, so I felt I'll ask here:

If we get a god-save, do our characters know?

I especially wonder about the disguise-god-save in this regard.

If someone would break your disguise, but does not because you get your -10% piety god-save to keep your identity concealed, does your character know? Is it reasonable IC behaviour to try and leave the scene due to that or would that be considered meta-gaming?

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Re: Do our characters know when their deities intervene?

Post by Kuma » Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:10 am

The absolute necessity of godsaves in dweomercrafting vs characters probably not being aware that Literally Mask intervened to protect your identity is a tricky one and probably should just be quietly handwaved and ignored. But I feel that way about a lot of mechanics.

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Re: Do our characters know when their deities intervene?

Post by Killer on the drive home » Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:55 am

I generally only acknowledge combat godsaves, because it's like. You just died, dude. You felt the sword plunge through your heart and exit your chest. And suddenly, all the pain and the wounds vanish and you're briefly protected by sanctuary. It's really not something you can even pretend isn't happening.
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Re: Do our characters know when their deities intervene?

Post by Good Character » Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:56 am

I legitimately think the piety system was used for this to give it a greater purpose than just being a cleric/favored soul's "spell component". I chalk it up to development efficiency (use something that already exists) rather than legitimately gods coming in to save you. I tend to classify all these "godsaves" are just luck, though then I suppose I guess a god (Tymora) is saving you.

Anyways, as a caveat I can see heralding some gods (i.e. Gond for crafting, Mask for disguises, Oghma or Mystra for dweomercrafting, etc.) would provide characters legitimate excuses to say their god is offering them this blessing.

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Re: Do our characters know when their deities intervene?

Post by Skibbles » Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:26 am

I'd say it's okay to be inconsistent about this kind of like how Kuma says. Just... Don't think about it too hard.

If RPing that your Diety did something for you seems to make sense or be fun, do that. If you can't think of anything interesting coming out of it just ignore it or it treat like luck. Whatever seems most interesting to yourself or others seems like the best choice and I don't think people will fuss much over however you do it.

Though it's not like characters aren't aware that miracles appear to happen on a daily basis from their cleric friend and like driving killer said some God saves are a little bit harder to ignore than others.
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Re: Do our characters know when their deities intervene?

Post by Dr. B » Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:43 am

Suppose this happened to someone in real life. I think no one would know whether it was a divine act, but many would probably attribute it to divine intervention, just as they do with many things.

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Re: Do our characters know when their deities intervene?

Post by LovelyLightningWitch » Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:05 am

I can only speak for Hanali.

In Demihuman Deities, Hanali is described to often intervene in the lives of elven craftsmen and artists. This manifests through some sort of symbol or reference to her manifesting in the artisan's product, and the product looks far better and more impressive than it would have otherwise.

As a caveat, she will strip her intervention of her products if they are used for things she does not approve of. In a special case, if a bandit is threatening an artist to make something - Hanali will intervene and make the product look amazing, then once the artist is safe the art piece suddenly looks horrible.


So, for Hanali - you will know if she intervenes when you work on crafting.

As the player of an Angharradite (so, technically Hanalite!), I edit item descriptions to mention something about Hanali if I had a godsave when making them. Some kind of symbol or something that invokes her, or her portfolios or ideas.

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Re: Do our characters know when their deities intervene?

Post by Kuma » Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:58 am

Dr. B wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:43 am
Suppose this happened to someone in real life. I think no one would know whether it was a divine act, but many would probably attribute it to divine intervention, just as they do with many things.
LovelyLightningWitch wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:05 am
So, for Hanali - you will know if she intervenes when you work on crafting.

As the player of an Angharradite (so, technically Hanalite!), I edit item descriptions to mention something about Hanali if I had a godsave when making them. Some kind of symbol or something that invokes her, or her portfolios or ideas.
I love both of these, actually. Surviving a near death experience due to a godsave could be viewed ICly, but if presented with a sense of awe, relief, wonder, thankfulness - that's a good angle. Walking it off, expecting it, or taking it for granted IC would be bad.

People attribute things to divine intervention, the will of [religious figure], guardian angels, etc all the time IRL, so it's absolutely possible to take "adverse situations turning out for the better" (which is more or less what a godsave is) ICly, just so long as it isn't through overtly gameified language or logic.

This is slightly trickier with the one godsave that you really shouldn't be able to "detect" ICly - protecting your identity, since it essentially relies on another (sometimes unknown) player's actions, unlike a basin or forge. That one I'd handwave and ignore ICly. Perhaps you get "a bad feeling about this" and decide not to chance your luck, that sort of thing, and leave a donation at a Mask altar for the close shave.

I had a character who would regularly offer benedictions and offerings to Gond before undertaking any crafting/enchanting, even if I didn't need or have a chance of a godsave. People should be beseeching the gods all the time, really, in FR. They're a big deal!

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Re: Do our characters know when their deities intervene?

Post by triaddraykin » Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:03 am

I'm going to share a scene from a year or so ago, the other party has since rolled and I don't think they'd mind this being presented. I RP it as some alteration to the process that my character doesn't even notice. A brace gets straightened, a fire is cooled, a rune's shape is corrected... This is literally a failure point that didn't happen, and would have otherwise. Other characters may notice it, but I design the godsaves RP so that they specifically happen at a point my character isn't paying attention.

I hope the added formatting and color makes it easier to read, not harder.

Angela Amana : [Tell] Really. A 1, and godsave DIDN'T go off? I barely even know how to RP that....
Elspeth Lynndain : [Tell] *heart breaks in several parts*
Angela Amana : [Tell] Gimme a sec to scene it. >.<


Angela Amana: *she sets her notes to the side floating* Been a long while since I set one of these up, some of the most difficult materials to work with.. The dissolution of the adamantine in particular... *she moves slightly to the side, showing the rock chunk dissolving... and then bubbling madly*

Elspeth Lynndain: *She blinks a few times observing the mad bubbling of the dissolved adamantine.* ... is... that part of the process?

Angela Amana: *she moves back into the way, trying to put a lid on it's container, but the froth spits out the side* No that's -not- part of it, I must have added too much acids... I can still save it, though, if there's still the core piece, the rock gone... *she lifts the lid, looking in... and there's nothing but a sort of silt at the bottom, prismatic and sand like, but no chunk of adamantine left* .... Gods damn it. I should have paid more attention. That's my fault, Lady Elspeth. I'll find a way to pay you back, accquire another piece...


Elspeth Lynndain: Ah... that is not a major problem. *She clears her throat.* Has anything else survived? The more complex part of the process was not really the adamantine piece, as it was merely to be mined or bought... but to produce those herbal parts... I have some excess ash and pine tar but... is there Natural Gum remaining?

Angela Amana: I'm afraid not. That entire solution was meant to dissolve the adamantine without chemically altering it, providing a homogeneous solution that could be used afterwards. The whole of the materials is consumed.

Elspeth Lynndain: Ach... I see. *She inhales and nods sharply afterwards.* I shall have to have more Natural Gums produced; worry not Your Excellency, everybody can make mistakes. Would you still be willing to attempt and produce the Emulsified Oil?

Angela Amana: ... I would, yes. That I can all but do in my sleep, as many as I've made. I won't include overconfidence as a reagent this time though, regardless.

Elspeth Lynndain: Heh, worry not... *She smiles at Angela.* I do not fault you for what happened.

[New Materials are Accquired through contacts and RP, and we resume]

Elspeth Lynndain: *She places the materials onto the table, ready for Angela to work her magic on. She observes the proces, with a slight concern on her face, but hopeful still.*

Angela Amana : [Tell] SAME ROLL.... But Godsave FOR THE WIN!
Elspeth Lynndain : [Tell] O_O you have the worst luck ever :D
Angela Amana : [Tell] fun bit to RP these out, sec.


Angela Amana: *she goes through the same process, using shaped planes of force to finely grind the charcoal, the tar and gum mixing like tallow at the high heats. As she works the adamantine, this time preparing it by knocking the rock chunks off arcanely, off to the side, the nearby fire under the solution it's to be mixed into burns a slightly bluish, silvery hue, instead of the typical orange. By the time she's turned back to it, the fire's back to normal, a span of a few seconds. She adds the mostly exposed bits of adamantine into the mixture... watching the mixture through the side of the glass...*

Elspeth Lynndain : *Elspeth moves a tad closer this time; her pale white eyes almost becoming a canvas for the reflection of the delicate lights of the flame and the components being worked therein.*

Angela Amana: *... they dissolve and mix into the liquid without issue, and she removes it from the heat, floating it above her hands, and watching closely. It starts to bubble again, on it's own and removed from the heat, and she gives the side of the container, thick glass, a 'tink' with a small hammer... and the cloudy liquid instantly goes a dark opaque. She nods* It's done. Perfectly done. Could have sworn I had it too hot initially, but it worked out. That's exactly the right reaction.

Elspeth Lynndain : *Elspeth exhales and then opens up in a wide smile.* You worked excellently, Your Excellency; last time it merely was a bit misfortune or rust, but you see your true skill at work here. *She firmly nods and bows her head at Angela.* I thank you deeply for your aid.

Angela Amana: *she smiles, nodding* Misfortune indeed. Thank the maker gods for no bad luck that time...
Alia: The uncanny knack of Angela Amana to make the otherwise perpetually well-mannered girl lose her temper and be HORRIBLY ASHAMED afterwards.

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Kalos
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Re: Do our characters know when their deities intervene?

Post by Kalos » Sat Sep 18, 2021 12:58 pm

I think it depends a lot on the deity and the circumstance. If you have been a devout follower of Clangeddin Silverbeard your entire dwarf life and right as you think your dead, you are now revived under sanctuary...I sure hope you are thanking Clangeddin, as how else would a good dwarf explain having his arse saved like that ;) I also think gnomes and dwarves see their gods as intervening in their lives more so perhaps than many Human deities for example.

When I recently rolled a 1 crafting some Bulwark Armor for example, and received a god-save, I RP'd that has "Phew. For a moment there, I thought I ruined that for certain...... but through the grace of the Morndinsamman it survived..."

Although I agree with the other posters, just go with what feels right in the moment, and don't think too hard on it.

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Re: Do our characters know when their deities intervene?

Post by Killer on the drive home » Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:42 pm

LovelyLightningWitch wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:05 am
So, for Hanali - you will know if she intervenes when you work on crafting.

As the player of an Angharradite (so, technically Hanalite!), I edit item descriptions to mention something about Hanali if I had a godsave when making them. Some kind of symbol or something that invokes her, or her portfolios or ideas.
Loved all of this.
Kuma wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:58 am
I love both of these, actually. Surviving a near death experience due to a godsave could be viewed ICly, but if presented with a sense of awe, relief, wonder, thankfulness - that's a good angle. Walking it off, expecting it, or taking it for granted IC would be bad.
Yeah, I'll usually stop in place briefly once there's safety, choose not to buff, and have my character mutter something after standing still for a moment. Last time it was something like, "I'm not going to the fields yet..." In relation to you know, their expected afterlife. Then, got buffing.

I noticed lately that when I do this, people really don't expect me to actually, seriously stand still for a moment. Despite emoting it.
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Re: Do our characters know when their deities intervene?

Post by Duchess Says » Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:28 pm

I've seen pushing for crafting god-saves RPed as a test of faith. If [deity] favors me they'll do this for me, if not then I must have done something I must atone for.

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