Slave Buying. How pushy is too pushy?

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David Jones
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Slave Buying. How pushy is too pushy?

Post by David Jones » Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:02 am

Despite spending a while searching for a answer here on the forums I haven't found a answer.

My goal isn't to get someone I had a bad RP experience with banned it's to answer questions that a particular drow PC never asked himself and I have about slavery

I think evil drow PC's should be able to be "mean" or have a temper and be able to whip and purchase slaves.

I do not think that a player should persist in attempting to purchase a slave for several real life days especially if they expressed through both ooc tells and creative manipulative RP of a slave avoiding being purchased by that drow who still persisted for a couple of more real life days leading to me being trapped in the slave pits using the slave caller.

I play as a female slave pc

A drow male PC tried to force me to let him buy me under duress multiple times ic and tried to justify his actions in OCC tells when I told him he was being creepy while he had me trapped in the slave pits. I have some of that in screenshots and he has had some ic repercussions in the form of a reputation

Initially I was angry and off put by this player then I realized he probably didn't see anything wrong with that interaction and was frustrated by a slave not doing as she was told.

I think that ladder should be put on a timer requiring it to automatically lower after 10 minutes and not be raised right away after it times out. Or at least have an option to climb out if I pass a skill check based on climb skill or a static one for people that don't have points in climb or put some item in a box down there that has climb on it.

Also that super secret quest. How FOIG (find out in game) is that supposed to be shouldn't there be a more obvious hint about it's existence if it's okay to trap PC slaves or force them to be your slave. I suspect that if a slave PC comes here to this thread they are experiencing something that drove them to the forums anyway and that quest might be an acceptable way out of a forced purchase.

I know I'd sure love a hint as to where to start not a complete guide. Especially since I nearly quit the server over this incident coupled with my bard kolbold becoming stuck crashing at login which I have screenshots and a separate post for.

I can't seem to attach screenshots to posts here for some reason probably having to do with me not owning a PC to access this from, so I also joined Discord.
Last edited by David Jones on Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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La Villa Strangiato
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Re: Slave Buying. How pushy is too pushy?

Post by La Villa Strangiato » Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:07 am

If you tell a player "no" in tells to slave RP, and they keep pushing, report them to the DMs. You can do so by clicking the little "private messages" tab up in the right corner of this page, and adding "Active DMs" to your recipients in a private message.

Describe your issue, include screenshots if you can, or at least time ranges for DMs to look through logs.

It's completely unacceptable (or if it isn't, it should be) for a player to continue being pushy on the matter of slave RP.
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Re: Slave Buying. How pushy is too pushy?

Post by David Jones » Fri Jan 28, 2022 4:05 am

Thanks that answers my main question pretty well. I am still having some technical and interface problems with the mobile version of the forum and the mobile version of the game.

I'm relieved that this isn't normal behavior and glad that it's not gone unnoticed in game and here.

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Re: Slave Buying. How pushy is too pushy?

Post by mourisson1 » Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:26 am

Don't play slaves I guess?
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Re: Slave Buying. How pushy is too pushy?

Post by Skarain » Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:43 am

To enslave another PC, you need OOC consent from the player of the would-be slaver. This applies even if the PC started off as a slave. In Character (In Roleplay), it is fine and potentially appropriate to be determined to purchase a slave, even mean IC, but if you say OOC "no", then no means a no.

How you weave that "Veto permission" into your RP is up to you. Any kind of excuse will do, such as "The Slavemaster already had a few they were going to try recommend to sell me to, so I am afraid I am not currently available."

I suspect the drow PC might not have been as familiar with the server rules regarding slavery. Do not hold it against them. The information doesnt show up on Wiki either, strangle enough. http://wiki.nwnarelith.com/Slavery

But yes. If the problem persists after talking with such players OOC... even if you can not take screenshots, what you CAN do is note the TIME it is and check in what ZONE you are in (by hovering over portrait at top right, or by transitioning in and out). DM's do have detailed logs of all text that goes on, so if you give time and zone, they should be able to check without a screenshot.

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DM MoonMoon
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Re: Slave Buying. How pushy is too pushy?

Post by DM MoonMoon » Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:10 am

Getting a PC Slave both sides:

Slaver:
See a slave you like? Send a tell to the player: "Hi I would like to purchase you and RP with you"
If player responds "sure" then go through the required steps for purchase
If player responds "no" then it is up to you to disengage that RP, easy step, slaver loses interest in that slave. You do not chase them on it, or pester their ooc decision. You can perhaps ask again in a month, in case decisions change.

Slave:
You start as a slave to Andunor, it is expected that you find a player slaver at some point, but you both must be comfortable on an OOC level.
You may request a player to become your slaver oocly, but all purchase etc is IC. If someone says no oocly, it means no!
We do ask that if either party is uncomfortable that you cease slave/slaver and the slave goes back to the NPC city slaver.
It is a REQUIREMENT that slaves understand their role in choosing to be a slave.
- "It is dangerous to speak out or act tough all mighty, as a slave you are low on the hierarchy, even if you are favoured. Except guards or even other players to react poorly to slaves that try and act above their status.
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Re: Slave Buying. How pushy is too pushy?

Post by Drowble Oh Seven » Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:18 am

Nope, not on. Flag it, report it, if someone's continuing to persist despite you letting them know OOC.

Had someone once try to take advantage of the fact that my slave had only just hit the level requirement for purchasing to grab them off someone who had already resolved to buy them IC, and was just waiting on that mechanical tick to go by.

You expect to be kicked around a bit as a slave character, but it's absolutely not okay to drag someone's narrative way off when they've expressed that they're not interested. This is a group roleplaying exercise and we're all equal players in it, whether you've got (Slave) at the end of your PC name or not.

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Re: Slave Buying. How pushy is too pushy?

Post by Dari » Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:08 pm

when there are plenty of opportunities to do something interesting with slave / slaver RP, but instead some people decide to turn you into a lewd slave. like come on, isn't that against the rules or something? can't ye think of something else?
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Re: Slave Buying. How pushy is too pushy?

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:20 pm

This is so bloody weird.
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Re: Slave Buying. How pushy is too pushy?

Post by Curve » Fri Jan 28, 2022 4:29 pm

Yo, I really hope that the OP reports this and there is serious action against the player of the slaver. This kind of bad behavior can do untold damage to the players involved and to the server itself. Ew.

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Re: Slave Buying. How pushy is too pushy?

Post by The GrumpyCat » Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:29 pm

It does sound like this should be reported, and I'd encourage you to do so.

Slave rp is weird in that it requires a lot of IC/OOC seperation on everyones part. An acceptance that In character you're disempowered, without many options, without much consent. But OOC, of course, those things certainly arn't (or shouldn't be) true.

To look at both sides of this – It's poor form and, frankly, just stupid to try and 'force' another pc to be bought by you if they've expressed disinterest in it ooc. Even if somehow you force the matter- all they need to do is not log in. At which point you've ruined their fun (bad enough) but also wasted your own time and coin. Likely too they have good reasons for not being interest- your styoes may not mesh, or your playtimes. It's just a bad idea.

On the other hand it does need to be said that if your aim is to play a big bad bruiser who takes no lip from no one – you really shouldn't be playing a slave. There is a type of rp that is expected from that concept and if you don't have a pc owner, you are, in fact, more vulnerable to that. Remember anyone can summon your pc, and often being 'owned' by a character means you're less likely to be bullied about by other pcs, because that can bring about your pc 'owner's' wroth. So whilst I absolutely would not advocate using the slave caller as a means to bully a slave pc into being 'your characters' it is a tool to be used against pcs who refuse to play their concept (again to a point.- don't be afraid to contact a DM if they really are not respecting the concept, or if it is being used too liberally against your pc.)

Truthfully this is the sort of situation where Tells are your friend. Talk to each other, work out what's going on, respect each others ooc desires even if you wouldn 't In Character. If you (as someone wanting to purchase a pc slave) are told 'no' ooc – then it's easy enough to come up with an IC excuse why said slave doesn't meet up to your standards.
This too shall pass.

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Re: Slave Buying. How pushy is too pushy?

Post by Morgy » Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:49 pm

I've played a few slaves and the best owners are the ones who obviously see the distinction between the slave PC and the player of the slave PC. Anyone pressuring you to do anything in this game OOC, is being a poor sport to say the least.

However, as Grumpy says, playing a fearless/arrogant/annoying slave and not expecting/accepting consequences is also going to cause problems. You are vulnerable IC as a slave and your character should be prepared acknowledge it in some way, or you'll end up probably being engaged in a lot of pvp. There's good ways of RPing submission and control, such as through fear of violence/harm to loved ones or other control methods such as magical items/rituals. Be creative.

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Re: Slave Buying. How pushy is too pushy?

Post by Curve » Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:06 pm

Of course, playing an arrogant, aggressive, whatever slave is bad. But that really has nothing to do with someone OOC pressuring someone to do anything and really is just a whole different conversation.

This?
David Jones wrote:
Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:02 am
I play as a female slave pc

A drow male PC tried to force me to let him buy me under duress multiple times ic and tried to justify his actions in OCC tells when I told him he was being creepy while he had me trapped in the slave pits. I have some of that in screenshots and he has had some ic repercussions in the form of a reputation
Is reprehensible.

We walk a fine line on this server with what PG13 means. For the health of the server and for the betterment of our players, some who are legit children and others who carry actual factual trauma this sort of behavior should be removed by way of bans. It's really beyond the pale of what is acceptable.

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Re: Slave Buying. How pushy is too pushy?

Post by Morgy » Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:11 pm

Discussions evolve, as this one did. We all agree OOC pushiness is a no-no.

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Re: Slave Buying. How pushy is too pushy?

Post by The GrumpyCat » Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:21 am

Curve wrote:
Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:06 pm
Of course, playing an arrogant, aggressive, whatever slave is bad. But that really has nothing to do with someone OOC pressuring someone to do anything and really is just a whole different conversation.

This?
David Jones wrote:
Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:02 am
I play as a female slave pc

A drow male PC tried to force me to let him buy me under duress multiple times ic and tried to justify his actions in OCC tells when I told him he was being creepy while he had me trapped in the slave pits. I have some of that in screenshots and he has had some ic repercussions in the form of a reputation
Is reprehensible.

We walk a fine line on this server with what PG13 means. For the health of the server and for the betterment of our players, some who are legit children and others who carry actual factual trauma this sort of behavior should be removed by way of bans. It's really beyond the pale of what is acceptable.
You are absolutly right Curve. But the other side of the coin has come up of late too, so I thought I'd add that into the umbrella of discussion.

And indeed, the above is unnacetable.
This too shall pass.

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Re: Slave Buying. How pushy is too pushy?

Post by Ork » Mon Jan 31, 2022 2:09 am

Can this system be removed already?

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Re: Slave Buying. How pushy is too pushy?

Post by ReverentBlade » Mon Jan 31, 2022 2:22 am

I have to agree with Ork. There's no way to make slave RP "PG-13", and the topic -shouldn't- be candy-coated and made PG-13. Its gross and uncomfortable to be around and almost never done well.

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Re: Slave Buying. How pushy is too pushy?

Post by MissEvelyn » Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:08 am

If NWN Shadows of Undrentide can depict slavery whilst keeping the game Teen rated, I'm sure we players can figure out how to do T/PG-13 slavery.

I don't necessarily disagree that a lot of the topics the Forgotten Realms universe depicts are gruesome and without a doubt R-rated, but I also don't believe in removing such an integral part of the setting that many players enjoy.


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Re: Slave Buying. How pushy is too pushy?

Post by ReverentBlade » Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:24 am

It can be relegated to back-story and off-screen RP, just like sexy elven fun times or characters that are the offspring of nonconsensual relations. Sex is more "integral" to any setting as a basic mortal biological function, but we take a no tolerance stance on that. Arelith can be magically free of slavery just like it is other things without compromising the setting integrity. Leave them in as DM NPCs or background scenery if you must, but there's really no reason the PCs, whom are generally supposed to be adventurers and above average people, need to be exploring the themes.

If I'm honest, slaves with class levels are more immersion and setting-breaking than not having them at all.

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Re: Slave Buying. How pushy is too pushy?

Post by Exordius » Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:39 am

ReverentBlade wrote:
Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:24 am
If I'm honest, slaves with class levels are more immersion and setting-breaking than not having them at all.
Well i mean in human history there have been cases where slaves were not just used for manual labor but were valued for having skills either in combat, medicine, or other areas. So it would not be surprising if some slaves IG had some class levels i think. Should not be the norm of course.

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Re: Slave Buying. How pushy is too pushy?

Post by Duchess Says » Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:06 am

The Underdark version of slavery seems more inspired by antiquity. In Ancient Rome for example a slave would often be from a conquered people and valued if they had a skill. Gladiators were often former soldiers... Maybe Spartacus was a level 30 weaponmaster. Slaves had upward mobility in some cases though usually it would be a life of drudgery and terror and no freedom. But gaining levels as a slave in that context isn't ridiculous. Many human slaves in the underdark are supposed to be captured and not bred down there if I remember right.

All that said. When most hear slavery in 2022 they think of 18th & 19th century America or colonial oppression by the various empires around the same time. Or they think of slavery that's ongoing in parts of the world today. It's awful and not to be taken lightly. I don't think it's completely taboo to have slavery in a role playing game but I do think Arelith's version and how it's played can be in pretty bad taste and probably shouldn't be mechanically supported. It's probably a story that needs to be told by a DM who is in control of the narrative and not up to players. I wish it was just a prisoner system TBH.

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Re: Slave Buying. How pushy is too pushy?

Post by Ork » Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:05 am

MissEvelyn wrote:
Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:08 am
If NWN Shadows of Undrentide can depict slavery whilst keeping the game Teen rated, I'm sure we players can figure out how to do T/PG-13 slavery.

I don't necessarily disagree that a lot of the topics the Forgotten Realms universe depicts are gruesome and without a doubt R-rated, but I also don't believe in removing such an integral part of the setting that many players enjoy.
There is nothing prohibiting players from capturing and keeping slaves without the system. It is the system that is problematic.

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Re: Slave Buying. How pushy is too pushy?

Post by The GrumpyCat » Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:30 am

Ork wrote:
Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:05 am
MissEvelyn wrote:
Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:08 am
If NWN Shadows of Undrentide can depict slavery whilst keeping the game Teen rated, I'm sure we players can figure out how to do T/PG-13 slavery.

I don't necessarily disagree that a lot of the topics the Forgotten Realms universe depicts are gruesome and without a doubt R-rated, but I also don't believe in removing such an integral part of the setting that many players enjoy.
There is nothing prohibiting players from capturing and keeping slaves without the system. It is the system that is problematic.
So... a few months back I witnessed a scene where someone in a prisoner collar was told on the surface, by a group of 'good guys' that unless they let them 'examine' their collar, (wherein they could emote removing it because it was a prisoner collar) they would kill said person.

I've played slaves/prisoners before the collars - generally it involved sitting alone in a no-teleport area for literal RL hours alone.

Already I have legitimatly seen pcs , actually In Game, that 'Well, you must WANT to be a slave then!' even with the mechanical situation.

I'm sorry, I try to be positive and optemistic about the player base- but in this case I've absolutly no doubt that that removing the collars would make the concept all but unplayable.

Re Slavery Not T Rated:
There's lots, and lots, and lots and lots of mentions of Slavery in perfectly T rated or lower books and movies. Yes it can be /done/ in a none T rated way but so can many things. I do not see this as a reason to remove it.
Don't like the system? Absolutly fine. Don't engage in it then. Don't play a slave. Accept that the rp of the story will be, on an ooc level, up to the player player... as it should be.
This too shall pass.

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Re: Slave Buying. How pushy is too pushy?

Post by mourisson1 » Mon Jan 31, 2022 12:24 pm

My personal problem with the system, honestly, is that it became new way (after outcasts being out) for players to play in UD as humans, and avoid consequences.
I am perfectly fine with slaves being played with masters, however they want. That is perfectly okay.
But I feel like last time I was playing in UD, I've met quite a lot of slaves that were "owned by slavemaster" for a long time. What this does for the player is that it allows them of course to play in UD, but avoiding any IC consequences, that come from the status. For instance having a master that decides a lot for you (In terms of characters of course).

So what is the reason for those people to pick a slave, and not having a master, staying slavemaster-of-andunor-property? If you want slave RP, you will need master for that, because the Slavemaster wont really RP much with you :D If you dont want to play slave RP... why did you pick a slave, and not any other UD race, or human on surface? Slaves should NOT be used for just being able to play human in UD, without any master bothering you.
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Re: Slave Buying. How pushy is too pushy?

Post by lakhena » Wed Feb 02, 2022 2:41 pm

My recent very quick experience with slave RP was a mixed bag, I'll say. My PC was caught, dragged down to the UD, collared, and bought by the person who took her down. The IC/OOC communication was crucial to having a good experience with the slave/master RP.

However, I will say that I did have questions on consent and things people (who weren't her master) wanted to do to my slave PC that seemed beyond PG-13. Ways were found to avoid those situations, but it toed the line at times that didn't make me entirely comfortable as a female player.

It would be fabulous to have some more guidelines or expectations written out for what people can/can't do to slaves. I'm really grateful to the player of my slave PC's master for protecting her from creeps, but I don't know that I'll be willingly playing a slave PC again anytime soon.
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