Slavery - Owned or Leased?

[Eira]

Could we have official clarification on whether slaves are owned by the slavemaster of Andunor and rented out to people who pay them, or if they're actually bought by the PC? It seems like it makes much more sense for them to be leased to explain why the collars are keyed to the portal, slave yoink system, vast amounts of money to pop them, and relatively minuscule cost of putting your name on their collar in the first place.

[The GrumpyCat]

Given the fact that slaves (collared PCs) start off as 'property of Andunor) and when released by their owner, return to 'Property of Andunor', and that slaves can be summoned by anyone who knows their name ('owners' just get it for a cheeper cost) it seems to me the answer is rented. All slaves are technically Andunor property, it's just that purchasing one gives you higher priority over all their tasks.

[The GrumpyCat]

Because I've had a concern or two over Discord about the above- I really want to stress that this honestly doesn't change much.

Short of ratings breaks, and perhaps considerations of RPB, we DMs don't generally get involved in how people RP slaves, or slave owners. People want to rp slavery in a variation of ways - and that's fine in my book.
The NPCs probably care very, very little what becomes of slaves after they are collared, and even less after they're 'purchased.'

[HeyLadyOfDecay]

Given the fact that slaves (collared PCs) start off as 'property of Andunor) and when released by their owner, return to 'Property of Andunor', and that slaves can be summoned by anyone who knows their name ('owners' just get it for a cheeper cost) it seems to me the answer is rented. All slaves are technically Andunor property, it's just that purchasing one gives you higher priority over all their tasks.

I think if this view on slaves became cannon IG it can lead to a lot of annoying situations as it devalues the claim of ownership to a mere "lease" it also lowers the slaves protection and security.

I was and am still amazed that the collar call system has not been misused. As far I know.

Edit: kidnapping and enslavement RP becomes really weird by this logic. Freely giving a slave to Andunor to then rent it?

[Hazard]

The caller system is the only thing that, imo, makes a slave a slave.
I see very few slaves these days, and when I do none of them seem much like a slave .. Just very indignant and spoilt pets.

I'd like to see a bucket of rotting fruit/vegetables be added next to the slave caller than one could click on to throw stuff at slaves in the pit. It would just be there to taunt and humiliate them.

[Ork]

Damn. Looks like we'll just have to abolish the whole mechanical system.

[Eira]

kidnapping and enslavement RP becomes really weird by this logic. Freely giving a slave to Andunor to then rent it?

Does it really? If a slaver doesn't want to give up their newly captured slave to the city, aka not opting into the collar system, the caller, making it hard for them to get free, then it's up to their own ingenuity to keep track of that slave.

By clamping the slave to the slavemaster, they're getting first dibs on said slave, with all benefits that the entire system, lower chance of their escape, and even if they die prematurely, there's the vindicative pleasure of knowing the slave won't be easily freed.

I feel like it makes less sense to get the collar on the slave for free and then get your name on that slave for an inconsequential amount of money.

[HeyLadyOfDecay]

The caller system is the only thing that, imo, makes a slave a slave.
I see very few slaves these days, and when I do none of them seem much like a slave .. Just very indignant and spoilt pets.

I'd like to see a bucket of rotting fruit/vegetables be added next to the slave caller that one could click on to throw stuff at slaves in the pit. It would just be there to taunt and humiliate them.

Not arguing that, And it isn't often used. I have seen it used by 1. Owner, Who I think should be the only one to use it unless the slave is owned by Andonor, Then it should be free for all. 2. Chainbreakers, There have been moments where they summoned the slave (even though the process is torture) to talk with the said slave.

Also, I agree that the slave RP can be poor, Lot of pet slaves and a lot of 0 interaction slaves. Though there have been amazing owners as well.

kidnapping and enslavement RP becomes really weird by this logic. Freely giving a slave to Andunor to then rent it?

Does it really? If a slaver doesn't want to give up their newly captured slave to the city, aka not opting into the collar system, the caller, making it hard for them to get free, then it's up to their own ingenuity to keep track of that slave.

By clamping the slave to the slavemaster, they're getting first dibs on said slave, with all benefits that the entire system, lower chance of their escape, and even if they die prematurely, there's the vindicative pleasure of knowing the slave won't be easily freed.

I feel like it makes less sense to get the collar on the slave for free and then get your name on that slave for an inconsequential amount of money.

The system is tied to a lot of IC and OOC, Mechanical boons, and OOC perceptions of some players.

With that, I say that not all see a "true-owned" slave as an actual slave because of the lack of the tag/OOC visible collar

Also, we'd step into a dangerous grey area with the rules surrounding "true-owned" slaves.


-Anyway:

Here is how my slaver saw it: You pay for the paperwork. You clamp the slave, Go to the slave master, and Pay for the documentation, Slave now has your name and you have the paperwork.

You sell a slave, You pay transfer costs, and once again, Documentation.

Since a slave can only pay for their freedom if property of Andunor and the cost is high, I see it as the slave master being a sadistic person that with a very high bribe erases the paperwork and pays off officials.

As for "slaves are cheap" don't forget they are seen as nothing more than a Roth, You're not buying a person, You're buying a slave.

End of the cycle, It comes down to "How you want to RP it".

Edit:

IG the slave owner says to abandoned slaves something like "You're mine now", Wich indicated he reconised you been owned by another, and now that owner is missing he can just claim you for himself. Which to me supports my theory on the documentation view. There are more texts that indicate you as the owner rather than the renter like "Sell" and " Buy" slaves, Instead of "Rent" and "Release" slave. Also when you sell a slave, The slave master send coin to your bank account based on the slaves level. If I rented a slave at level four (4000) and "sold" it to the slave master at lvl 30 (29 000 I think) why would the slavemaster pay you that?
Last argument, There is no upkeep cost nor renewal cost.

[Eira]

True-owned slaves

If people don't see non-mechanical slaves as slaves then it's a matter of (A) the owner making them believe it, (B) the slave making them believe it, (C) it being actively known that the mechanical system means something specific and to not opt into that mechanical system doesn't mean their rp is suddenly invalid. The clamp is a measure of easy insurance and protection. That is both an ig and ooc thing. A slave that runs around without a collar and flipping off randos will probably know they'll be treated like a surfacer. If an owner wants to keep their slave without using the big ol' magical collar system that means a specific thing, they have to come up with ways of it.

As for slave owner sexy elven fun times? That's forbidden, collar or no collar. As with the mechanical system,if you see it, report it. If you are suspicious, report it. That changes nothing.

Everything Else

Why would the Slavemaster pay you back? Because he's a genius, that's why.

People bring him slaves. And, regardless of how NPC slaves are seen, PC slaves are absolutely not worthless, not when they can kill dragons and cast epic spells, travel the planes, and it's ridiculous to pretend otherwise. It would seem reasonable for an inexperienced owner that they need a strong collar to keep track of. For the minuscule equivalent of selling someone an NFT, the slavemaster doesn't need upkeep costs. He gets a collection of powerful slaves who do work for the city, hunt dangerous enemies outside its borders, make money, buy things, sell things, and for the leasers? It's like sponsering a racehorse. They'll keep track of the slave (evil people are vindictive and great at taking a runaway slave's actions personally), give them jobs, take care of training, punishment, feeding, whatever. But most importantly, they stay in Andunor with that slave and continue to use it's services, foster trade, keep the city moving. It's absolutely brilliant. Why make them pay rent? Why not pay them back a tiny sum for their NFT? It means these people keep coming back and keep using the system.

And if they don't want to catch a slave and have it go to the city? Well, then they can use their own methods with all the risk it holds for the sake of being the true owner.

That's putting rp to the mechanics. Sure, your slave renter can believe they own the slave. The slavemaster doesn't really lose anything by it.

[perseid]

Given the fact that slaves (collared PCs) start off as 'property of Andunor) and when released by their owner, return to 'Property of Andunor', and that slaves can be summoned by anyone who knows their name ('owners' just get it for a cheeper cost) it seems to me the answer is rented. All slaves are technically Andunor property, it's just that purchasing one gives you higher priority over all their tasks.

I think if this view on slaves became cannon IG it can lead to a lot of annoying situations as it devalues the claim of ownership to a mere "lease" it also lowers the slaves protection and security.

I was and am still amazed that the collar call system has not been misused. As far I know.

Edit: kidnapping and enslavement RP becomes really weird by this logic. Freely giving a slave to Andunor to then rent it?

Sort of a tangent but tbh I think it's weird the caller will call slaves you don't own for you. I agree that a lot of people don't rp slaves as simply being leased, and neither have I with mine, but the caller not respecting personal ownership always struck me as at odds with that framing of the Andunorian master/slave dynamic.

[Flower Power]

I can't remember because it's been so long since I've played down in Andunor - but aren't the Peacekeepers all purpose-bred slave soldiers, or something along those lines? If that's the case then, uh, potentially hot take:

American-style chattel slavery was, perhaps, not intended to be the dominant or sole form of slavery RP in Andunor from the get-go?

There are a variety of different forms of historical bondage and master-servant dynamics and relationships that can be explored, and you'll probably end up telling much better stories (and having a better time for everyone involved) with a greater emphasis being placed on exploring these new spaces instead of just hammering away at the tired old "I have the same degree of personal investment in this slave of mine as I do in my favorite chair" mentality.

[The GrumpyCat]

Sort of a tangent but tbh I think it's weird the caller will call slaves you don't own for you. I agree that a lot of people don't rp slaves as simply being leased, and neither have I with mine, but the caller not respecting personal ownership always struck me as at odds with that framing of the Andunorian master/slave dynamic.
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This is to encourge slaves to act like, well, slaves - which is to say not to go around upsetting too many people. Because if you do, then (at least in theory) anyone can summon them to the slave pits and kill them.

[HeyLadyOfDecay]

Sort of a tangent but tbh I think it's weird the caller will call slaves you don't own for you. I agree that a lot of people don't rp slaves as simply being leased, and neither have I with mine, but the caller not respecting personal ownership always struck me as at odds with that framing of the Andunorian master/slave dynamic.
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This is to encourge slaves to act like, well, slaves - which is to say not to go around upsetting too many people. Because if you do, then (at least in theory) anyone can summon them to the slave pits and kill them.

Pretty sure in reality, We just kill them on the spot