IC Talking about how "Death is Meaningless"

You have questions? We may have answers.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Active DMs

riffraff
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:15 pm

IC Talking about how "Death is Meaningless"

Post by riffraff » Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:30 am

I was poking my head into the Leylines Metagaming thread in the Feedback forum and saw a quote related to the topic here that I wanted to ask about without derailing the other thread.
Hazard wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:28 am
Just like players still say 'Death is meaningless here. It works different. No one stays dead.' despite not being allowed to
Is this not allowed? My character had a couple of conversations like this in the past few days - some in-person clarification for her that no, she wasn't imagining things when people were reportedly dead only to be referenced in the present tense at a later date. And with far greater frequency than general resurrection magic would usually account for.

I know there are obviously rules that we shouldn't treat our character's deaths as meaningless (otherwise there'd be no tension), but are there ones about not talking generally about how people often pop back to life? I feel like these are pretty different things.

It's easy for me to treat my own character's deaths with gravitas, though admittedly my idiotic deaths to PVE I've been treating as getting knocked out or badly injured rather than actual death. Either way, my character still sees it as her deity intervening (because that's how she rolls). It's a bit harder to parse when people talk about how someone killed someone else, but the first victim came back and avenged themselves and one or both of them have died multiple times during this bizarre feud. Harder to parse beyond "this island be weird", anyway. If it's not allowed, what's the approved way of reacting to things like that?
cold chuckle

User avatar
Hazard
Posts: 1866
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:27 am

Re: IC Talking about how "Death is Meaningless"

Post by Hazard » Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:29 am

riffraff wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:30 am
I was poking my head into the Leylines Metagaming thread in the Feedback forum and saw a quote related to the topic here that I wanted to ask about without derailing the other thread.
Hazard wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:28 am
Just like players still say 'Death is meaningless here. It works different. No one stays dead.' despite not being allowed to
Is this not allowed? My character had a couple of conversations like this in the past few days - some in-person clarification for her that no, she wasn't imagining things when people were reportedly dead only to be referenced in the present tense at a later date. And with far greater frequency than general resurrection magic would usually account for.

I know there are obviously rules that we shouldn't treat our character's deaths as meaningless (otherwise there'd be no tension), but are there ones about not talking generally about how people often pop back to life? I feel like these are pretty different things.

It's easy for me to treat my own character's deaths with gravitas, though admittedly my idiotic deaths to PVE I've been treating as getting knocked out or badly injured rather than actual death. Either way, my character still sees it as her deity intervening (because that's how she rolls). It's a bit harder to parse when people talk about how someone killed someone else, but the first victim came back and avenged themselves and one or both of them have died multiple times during this bizarre feud. Harder to parse beyond "this island be weird", anyway. If it's not allowed, what's the approved way of reacting to things like that?
I would recommend not remembering details of your own character's death, to avoid awkward situations like ..

PC A gets killed by PC B
PC A respawns
PC A runs to guards to report their own murder by PC B

It helps to not openly claim death is meaningless/no one stays dead, because that seems pretty meta and is 'not' taking death seriously. Someone could instead say that person must be a lich/favored by some god/whatever other excuse that they just keep coming back, but almost anything made up is better than just being like 'lol its arelith none of us can die'.

I don't know what the ruling is these days, but in the past I've been told it wasn't allowed to say things like in my example and that it should be reported when seen. Things tend to change without me knowing about it, because the forums are the only OOC interaction I have with Arelith and anyone from Arelith, but I'd be very surprised and disappointed if the example given was 'acceptable' now.
Last edited by Hazard on Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

MRFTW
Posts: 503
Joined: Mon May 03, 2021 5:37 am

Re: IC Talking about how "Death is Meaningless"

Post by MRFTW » Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:31 am

The logical consequence at the intersection of death having no real consequence, and encouraging WYSIWYG. Personally, I think the latter is at fault. WYSIWYG isn't a good system, imo.

Sadly you can't make death have actual consequences since it's already used as a tool to bully people.

User avatar
Hazard
Posts: 1866
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:27 am

Re: IC Talking about how "Death is Meaningless"

Post by Hazard » Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:37 am

MRFTW wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:31 am
WYSIWYG isn't a good system, imo.
I couldn't agree more.

User avatar
Morgy
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Posts: 720
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:08 pm

Re: IC Talking about how "Death is Meaningless"

Post by Morgy » Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:04 am

Death should at least mean suffering, whether it be physical or mental trauma.

You can’t decide what death means to others, but when my PC gets slain meaningfully by other PCs, I tend to give them some permanent/long-lasting marking/disability/change in behaviour.

Another idea would be making time speed up during your death. Like an hour in the fugue turns into a year of endless wandering for you PC in the mist, trying to remember how to get home.. which would be quite a terrifying thing to want to avoid - think interstellar the crew spends like an hour on the wave planet, then return to their ship to find their crewmate has been waiting there for like over a decade.

User avatar
Hazard
Posts: 1866
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:27 am

Re: IC Talking about how "Death is Meaningless"

Post by Hazard » Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:12 am

Morgy wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:04 am
Another idea would be making time speed up during your death. Like an hour in the fugue turns into a year of endless wandering for you PC in the mist, trying to remember how to get home..
I really, really like this!
I'm going to steal thing >_>
This is a great idea.

User avatar
-XXX-
Posts: 2113
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:49 am

Re: IC Talking about how "Death is Meaningless"

Post by -XXX- » Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:18 pm

It's probably best to treat character death as a form of russian roulette IC - just because there wasn't a live round in the barrel this time around, doesn't mean that it can't happen the next time.

Report anyone claiming IC that their character is immortal because respawns exist.

riffraff
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:15 pm

Re: IC Talking about how "Death is Meaningless"

Post by riffraff » Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:47 pm

Hazard wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:29 am
It helps to not openly claim death is meaningless/no one stays dead, because that seems pretty meta and is 'not' taking death seriously. Someone could instead say that person must be a lich/favored by some god/whatever other excuse that they just keep coming back, but almost anything made up is better than just being like 'lol its arelith none of us can die'.
Yeah, that's fair. I was kinda thinking I might angle it as my character at least believing that the gods seem, for whatever reason, more likely to intervene here. Which is sort of true, but also easily dismissed as a personal belief. I'll try to avoid blaming it on the island itself specifically, though!

I don't personally find it hard having my character treat life and death seriously. Like XXX said, she would assume that just because she got lucky with divine intervention this time, doesn't mean she would next time.
Morgy wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:04 am
Another idea would be making time speed up during your death. Like an hour in the fugue turns into a year of endless wandering for you PC in the mist, trying to remember how to get home.. which would be quite a terrifying thing to want to avoid
Agree with Hazard that this is a really cool idea, though. A great way to RP confusion and a sense of detachment when coming back. It's always great to traumatise your character. :lol: I'll have to try to remember it.
-XXX- wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:18 pm
Report anyone claiming IC that their character is immortal because respawns exist.
To be clear, I haven't personally encountered anyone doing this, just heard third party accounts IC, but I'll keep that in mind. :)
cold chuckle

chris a gogo
Posts: 473
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:41 pm

Re: IC Talking about how "Death is Meaningless"

Post by chris a gogo » Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:20 pm

Death is mostly meaningless on Arelith.
But how much meaning do you put into the random griefers that decided to kill your much lower level character because they were out looking for easy kills and single line role play is not rule breaking. I lost 2 lives on a mark of destiny character to that.
I've died in a dungeon working with strangers because they thought fighting and dying was a quicker way of getting back to town so charged in killed the writ target and got everyone killed by the rest of the mob spawns.
Do you treat such deaths as meaningful?
Or do you just ignore it and carry on?

Me I ignore the dross encounters and resulting deaths, and put meaning into deaths that come about from some kind of role play, be it while out adventuring with others or from conflict with other players.

User avatar
Hazard
Posts: 1866
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:27 am

Re: IC Talking about how "Death is Meaningless"

Post by Hazard » Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:51 pm

chris a gogo wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:20 pm
Death is mostly meaningless on Arelith.
But how much meaning do you put into the random griefers that decided to kill your much lower level character because they were out looking for easy kills and single line role play is not rule breaking. I lost 2 lives on a mark of destiny character to that.
I've died in a dungeon working with strangers because they thought fighting and dying was a quicker way of getting back to town so charged in killed the writ target and got everyone killed by the rest of the mob spawns.
Do you treat such deaths as meaningful?
Or do you just ignore it and carry on?

Me I ignore the dross encounters and resulting deaths, and put meaning into deaths that come about from some kind of role play, be it while out adventuring with others or from conflict with other players.
I think deaths like 'those' are totally fine to disregard if you want to.
I don't think there needs to be hard rules to be lawyered, it's just a .. like, feeling thing. That sounds sucky, and I'd probably ignore it too, and I'm all for taking death seriously, but it has to be a mutual exchange of stories. I wouldn't blame anyone for brushing over deaths like that, and I'm sorry that happened to you!

IanPatron
Posts: 63
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:59 pm

Re: IC Talking about how "Death is Meaningless"

Post by IanPatron » Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:12 pm

Death has as much meaning as you give it.

I perma'd a character after they died in a dungeon by npc monsters once. Something about that death just made me think it would be tragic after everything this character achieved to die at the hands of simple nameless random monsters. No big dramatic RP happenstance. He simply died. Death is sometimes like that.

I find it funny that death is "meaningless", yet characters have lifespans and eventually disappear and actually do die.

All things have their time.

I don't usually take PvE deaths seriously, or really poor RP PvP deaths. If poorly RP'd or the basic minimum like one word "Hey" then goes straight into PvP, I tend to ignore it rather than give the bad RP the benefit of mattering to my character.

Maybe one day I'll perma a character with even barely minimal RP PvP. Just reflecting on death IRL makes me see how random it can be.

In our world people die all the time and are resuscitated, so I RP most of my deaths like that. Yes they fell and their heart stopped and for a while they were dead. Through either helpful passerby or divine intervention, they came back to life.

User avatar
Amateur Hour
Posts: 545
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:50 am

Re: IC Talking about how "Death is Meaningless"

Post by Amateur Hour » Sat Aug 06, 2022 6:21 pm

I tend to have a few different takes for my own deaths (maybe worth noting I don't play MoD characters):
  • If Sue were to die alone in a dungeon to an NPC enemy or some other place I'm pretty dang sure no one's going to see any evidence of it, I tend to play that death off not as a death, exactly, but a super close call, like Sue booked it for all she was worth to escape, dropped her change purse without looking back, and will feel like crap for a while as she absorbs the effects of facing down her own mortality. Perhaps ironically, I feel like this helps death maintain its seriousness, since I have had characters that mechanically died a lot while I was figuring out certain builds, and no sane person would take that many attempts before fleeing screaming back home.
  • If Anne is knocked down in a dungeon with friends or allies who can resurrect her with Raise Dead or equivalent consumable (or altar), I tend to RP the death effects as Anne feeling woozy, sometimes nauseous, etc. but running on enough adrenaline to get through the dungeon, after which point she'll crash. Resurrection pops a character back up with full HP, so I feel that isn't really necessary; Anne can be fine in the moment, but she'll take time to reflect later of how that could have gone very poorly if the resurrector didn't have a scroll or divine power.
  • I've not had characters die much to PvP, but on the few occasions it's happened, I've tried to characterize the reaction as "holy crap, somehow I'm still alive, and I do not want to take the chance I'll get lucky like this again." I know some players who log out for 24 hours after a death, others who will roleplay a long recovery (my two most emotionally-affecting roleplay experiences were from prolonged post-resurrection recovery). Even though roleplaying that Mary is still recovering from death hours after she's mechanically fully recovered puts her/you at disadvantage in some ways (she'd likely just sit pretty close to home, avoiding invitations to do writs or dungeons and possibly even playing it safe in the tavern with alcohol) you do everyone a service by giving people something to react to to the effect of "death is serious and can have lasting consequences."
When it comes to other people not taking death seriously, depending on how you can encounter it, sometimes the best way to deal with the situation is to make a HUGE DEAL about their death and otherwise-unexplained resurrection. "By the gods, It's a miracle! Come, we should go to the temple and offer prayers of thanks for your deliverance."

Rolled: Solveigh Arnimayne, "Anna Locksley"
Shelved: Ninim Elario, Maethiel Tyireale'ala
Current: Ynge Redbeard, ???


Halibutthead
Posts: 187
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:56 pm

Re: IC Talking about how "Death is Meaningless"

Post by Halibutthead » Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:36 pm

Amateur Hour wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 6:21 pm
When it comes to other people not taking death seriously, depending on how you can encounter it, sometimes the best way to deal with the situation is to make a HUGE DEAL about their death and otherwise-unexplained resurrection. "By the gods, It's a miracle! Come, we should go to the temple and offer prayers of thanks for your deliverance."
Please don't make this your default reaction... dying and respawning is about as immersion breaking as things get in a typical playsession. The absolute reminder that "this is a video game world. Your death is meaningless and has no real consequences. Gitgud and looking4 17-24 healer for writs send PM to epicPWNZlord89"

Not to say somebody wouldnt find it fun, once, though...

User avatar
The GrumpyCat
Dungeon Master
Dungeon Master
Posts: 6565
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 5:47 pm

Re: IC Talking about how "Death is Meaningless"

Post by The GrumpyCat » Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:43 pm

We need to have a base line for the vast majority of what counts as 'reality' in this game.
WYSIWYG isn't a bad one. It's not watertight, there are a few exceptions I believe (I can't think of others right now, but personal death is one of them) but it's there.
However- keep in mind that with the exception of really gross violations, this isn't a ruling we tend to enforce much. If other players are willing to go with your none WYSIWYG then great! Heck of a DM is willing to go with it - fine. But (good rule of thumb) other players and DMs are not obliged to.

In the case of death, it's a funny thing. In a way death as observed by other people is /not/ meaningless. Sure you killed Bob the PC diabalist yesterday but you don't KNOW he'll be back. The player could decide to delete. It's always a gamble. So to me, whilst I personally find saying 'Ugh, why bother his gods will only bring him back later.' supremley poor taste, I don't find it a full infringement.

What IS an infringment is people going 'Hah! Kill me as much as you like! I'll just return!' or words to that effect. Althought technically working with WYSIWYG- this is something we ask you take more seriously. Treat it as a lotto - maybe your god will bring you back? Maybe he won't. Maybe you're willing to take that gamble? Maybe you arn't. Either way - some aprehension of death, and some respect for death, should really be roleplayed.

People who don't roleplay seriousness of their own death at least, should be reported.
This too shall pass.

(I now have a DM Discord (I hope) It's DM GrumpyCat#7185 but please keep in mind I'm very busy IRL so I can't promise how quick I'll get back to you.)

User avatar
WanderingPoet
Posts: 759
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:51 am

Re: IC Talking about how "Death is Meaningless"

Post by WanderingPoet » Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:58 pm

The GrumpyCat wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:43 pm
What IS an infringment is people going 'Hah! Kill me as much as you like! I'll just return!' or words to that effect. Althought technically working with WYSIWYG- this is something we ask you take more seriously. Treat it as a lotto - maybe your god will bring you back? Maybe he won't. Maybe you're willing to take that gamble? Maybe you arn't. Either way - some aprehension of death, and some respect for death, should really be roleplayed.

People who don't roleplay seriousness of their own death at least, should be reported.
Out of curiosity, would it be a violation if the character legitimately believes their god will always see them return, but the player fully intends to have them die dramatically, and does have them RP effects of death (permanent wounds, mental scaring, etc)?

I don't think I'd ever want to do that concept myself because I wouldn't want to accidentally encourage newer players to be MMO about death, but it could be interesting to see a holy warrior think they -know- that their god will keep bringing them back, but then they get killed by their nemesis, and then they realize their god isn't bringing them back and they stay dead.
Path_of_Play wrote:Fear, intimidation, anger - All these, the tyrant's tools.
Laughter, encouragement, play - not simply just for fools.
These tools reveal,
More is learned,
From another in an hour of play,
Than in a year of contention.

User avatar
Morgy
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Arelith Platinum Supporter
Posts: 720
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:08 pm

Re: IC Talking about how "Death is Meaningless"

Post by Morgy » Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:03 pm

WanderingPoet wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:58 pm
The GrumpyCat wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:43 pm
What IS an infringment is people going 'Hah! Kill me as much as you like! I'll just return!' or words to that effect. Althought technically working with WYSIWYG- this is something we ask you take more seriously. Treat it as a lotto - maybe your god will bring you back? Maybe he won't. Maybe you're willing to take that gamble? Maybe you arn't. Either way - some aprehension of death, and some respect for death, should really be roleplayed.

People who don't roleplay seriousness of their own death at least, should be reported.
Out of curiosity, would it be a violation if the character legitimately believes their god will always see them return, but the player fully intends to have them die dramatically, and does have them RP effects of death (permanent wounds, mental scaring, etc)?

I don't think I'd ever want to do that concept myself because I wouldn't want to accidentally encourage newer players to be MMO about death, but it could be interesting to see a holy warrior think they -know- that their god will keep bringing them back, but then they get killed by their nemesis, and then they realize their god isn't bringing them back and they stay dead.
The thing is, whilst you yourself know, as a player, that you are intending them to die dramatically at -some point-, other players will just see you most likely ignoring the seriousness of death. You're more likely to be reported or not taken seriously, so there's really not much benefit to doing this angle of RP at all.

User avatar
Irongron
Server Owner/Creative Lead
Server Owner/Creative Lead
Posts: 4666
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:13 pm

Re: IC Talking about how "Death is Meaningless"

Post by Irongron » Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:47 pm

I was hesitant to post here, as this is a very old topic and one I've commented on many times.

There are a great many new players since last time round though, so here goes...

In so far as mechanical consequences for death...

Time was Arelith had truly massive XP loss, at time when level gain was a fraction of what it is now. For more casual players this could set them back weeks, or even months.

There were two major consequences of this:

1. 'Killbashing' was the number 1 issue
for many players, and led to considerable amounts of bad blood. Basically, in PvP you could force the maximum penalty on a character by destroying their body, thus leaving nothing to raise. 'Bashing back to level 1' was a real issue, and because of this PvP characters truly ruled the roost

2. Dungeoneers were risk averse. With such hefty penalties the most dangerous, and thus exciting, dungeons were abandoned, and anything lethal was bad design. Player characters would circle areas considerably below their level because the risk of dying simply wasn't worth it. Adventuring was boring, and certain dungeons were badly over trafficked.

Because of these, and some more minor issues I decided on almost a full 180. It wasn't universally popular, of course, but I do stand by it. I'd rather play in the wild west we have now, and design dungeons to be dangerous.

Anyway, that's the mechanical side, but as posters have said above it doesn't end there. What psychological weight players give to it is up to themselves, both as a reflection of their own character, and of the society, and its values, in the setting itself. The first of these is up to the players, but I can talk about the second, as I think for many players this aspect of death, and its finality, in the Forgotten Realms has not been fully digested.

This is a world where the dead, can indeed, be brought back to life, and furthermore is a service offered by the local temple...

I mean, that's a crazy sci notion right there. If I could just wheel my grandma across the street to the church and fork out a few thousand dollars to bring her back each time she died the world, and how we view death, would be very different indeed.

Still, we know that resurrection isn't offered to everyone, and (we can hope) most churches frown upon doing this too readily, but it doesn't really end there.

In the Forgotten Realms life after death isn't a question of faith, but verifiable and extremely real. The journey, goes on.

Finally, if these two points weren't enough, it is a world of monsters, like...everywhere. Wars and crusaders abound, nation states routinely execute their convicts and everybody, like...everybody knows they could die an unexpected violent death at any time. This isn't like the occasional black bear wandering into town to raid a trash can, there is a fully armed goblin in there, ready to serve you up as sunday dinner to his family.

Death is meaningless, because life is cheap.


So personally? I don't much care if I see a character say they don't much care about death. I am actually far more bothered by them shrugging off pain and trauma like it's nothing, because that stuff...REALLY hurts. I hit my head on a low beam a few days back and it still hurts like hell, I can only imagine being bludgeoned and eaten to death by a zombie feels considerably worse, and not something I'd be just fine and dandy about after being raised from the dead.

So I might not fear being dead in the Forgotten Realms, but I'd sure as hell fear being killed, and most definitely fear the thing that did it to me last time round.

User avatar
WanderingPoet
Posts: 759
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:51 am

Re: IC Talking about how "Death is Meaningless"

Post by WanderingPoet » Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:00 pm

Morgy wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:03 pm
WanderingPoet wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:58 pm
The GrumpyCat wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:43 pm
What IS an infringment is people going 'Hah! Kill me as much as you like! I'll just return!' or words to that effect. Althought technically working with WYSIWYG- this is something we ask you take more seriously. Treat it as a lotto - maybe your god will bring you back? Maybe he won't. Maybe you're willing to take that gamble? Maybe you arn't. Either way - some aprehension of death, and some respect for death, should really be roleplayed.

People who don't roleplay seriousness of their own death at least, should be reported.
Out of curiosity, would it be a violation if the character legitimately believes their god will always see them return, but the player fully intends to have them die dramatically, and does have them RP effects of death (permanent wounds, mental scaring, etc)?

I don't think I'd ever want to do that concept myself because I wouldn't want to accidentally encourage newer players to be MMO about death, but it could be interesting to see a holy warrior think they -know- that their god will keep bringing them back, but then they get killed by their nemesis, and then they realize their god isn't bringing them back and they stay dead.
The thing is, whilst you yourself know, as a player, that you are intending them to die dramatically at -some point-, other players will just see you most likely ignoring the seriousness of death. You're more likely to be reported or not taken seriously, so there's really not much benefit to doing this angle of RP at all.
I agree, and as i said I'd be worried about encouraging newer players to bad behaviour - but in isolation it could be an interesting concept. I think if I ever did, for some strange reason, decide to do something along that vein. I'd roll the character on the first death. That way they never come back, they're entirely wrong and the concept doesn't last too long.
Irongron wrote:
Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:47 pm
So personally? I don't much care if I see a character say they don't much care about death. I am actually far more bothered by them shrugging off pain and trauma like it's nothing, because that stuff...REALLY hurts. I hit my head on a low beam a few days back and it still hurts like hell, I can only imagine being bludgeoned and eaten to death by a zombie feels considerably worse, and not something I'd be just fine and dandy about after being raised from the dead.

So I might not fear being dead in the Forgotten Realms, but I'd sure as hell fear being killed, and most definitely fear the thing that did it to me last time round.
I love this, it's so true! Being killed would be such a traumatic experience, no sane person would want to risk it again. Though when someone becomes jaded about dying (like a soldier or detective in the real world becoming jaded to death around them), perhaps they've lost something important.
Path_of_Play wrote:Fear, intimidation, anger - All these, the tyrant's tools.
Laughter, encouragement, play - not simply just for fools.
These tools reveal,
More is learned,
From another in an hour of play,
Than in a year of contention.

xf1313
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:39 am
Location: China

Re: IC Talking about how "Death is Meaningless"

Post by xf1313 » Tue Aug 09, 2022 5:34 am

I would not rp my character to say that i’ll just come back from death. I generally consider that I was saved in near-death situations by god and my friends... I never went to the maze, death touched me and left me alone (no after death memories). My main really do not die often, so this strategy works well.

It can be very disheartening, when playing a divination focused character and warn people who are attuned to death, got reply like “find someone who isn’t”... Or rping fear of death but receiving cold response. Most people might just get confused on what they should do with death (when they...well, died a lot of times).

I guess that we can say more like : “You had critical wounds, I cannot patch you up but I stabilised you and brought you to your god.” Instead of “You just got killed and see? Your god revieved you”. Player effort to reduce death counts as much as possible XD.
Wild-elf Druid Laurifin Goldenleaf
Drow shadowlord Lomin Nightshade

Seven Sons of Sin
Posts: 2184
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:40 am

Re: IC Talking about how "Death is Meaningless"

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:53 pm

You should know OOC that death is meaningless from a conflict perspective. This will get you into the mentality that continually and constantly PvPing the other side to death is problematic storytelling, because, you know AS A PLAYER, this does not get you to any emotional resolution.

As a player, you know respawning exists. As a player, you know every other player is continually within their right to never, ever roll their character. There is nothing that forces them to. Not even dramatic, climatic deaths at the hands of their nemesis.

So, just understand that first of all. It'll help reframe how you approach conflict, because by knowing killing Bane Mcfartyface may make complete IC justification, you know OOCly it won't actually do a whole lot of anything.

As to the actual topic, people who espouse "death is meaningless" are not playing in a crowd of folks who'll just decide one day "that PvP was a good one, I think I'm done with this character, -delete."

When you have close relationships between characters with *players* who do this, this scars you, man. These people are heroes, because they throw it all right out the window.

All it takes for one person to -delete in some mass PvP brawl, or some random gank, for people to wake up.

I think folks who are on the "Death is meaningless" train have honestly been playing in their nice happy bubble. They need to get out there and play with folks who have been traumatized by one of their buddies just one day not being around anymore because they decided "today, death matters a whole ton."
Previous:
Oskarr of Procampur, Ro Irokon, Nahal Azyen, Nelehein Afsana (of Impiltur), Vencenti Medici, Nizram ali Balazdam, (Roznik) Naethandreil

User avatar
Ork
Arelith Gold Supporter
Arelith Gold Supporter
Posts: 2488
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2014 8:30 pm

Re: IC Talking about how "Death is Meaningless"

Post by Ork » Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:40 pm

Seven Sons of Sin wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:53 pm
They need to get out there and play with folks who have been traumatized by one of their buddies just one day not being around anymore because they decided "today, death matters a whole ton."
Ah yes, the hunter/daedin special. :cry:

User avatar
The GrumpyCat
Dungeon Master
Dungeon Master
Posts: 6565
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 5:47 pm

Re: IC Talking about how "Death is Meaningless"

Post by The GrumpyCat » Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:04 pm

I think folks who are on the "Death is meaningless" train have honestly been playing in their nice happy bubble. They need to get out there and play with folks who have been traumatized by one of their buddies just one day not being around anymore because they decided "today, death matters a whole ton."
This is... so true. Occasionaly player side someone does this to me. Just ups and dies and /WOW/ it sticks with you.

But anyway - to answer Poet's question - It's a bit of a... dodgy concept but if handled well it might be ok? Mostly what it comes down to is that a) Your pc should really show some fear/concern for death - at least pvp death. And/or b) Ideally that there should be some sign of consequence after death.

Mostly it reall comes down to not yelling about how Bob bobson can kill you 30 times, you don't care, you'll just come back ect.
This too shall pass.

(I now have a DM Discord (I hope) It's DM GrumpyCat#7185 but please keep in mind I'm very busy IRL so I can't promise how quick I'll get back to you.)

Seven Sons of Sin
Posts: 2184
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:40 am

Re: IC Talking about how "Death is Meaningless"

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:05 pm

Ork wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:40 pm
Seven Sons of Sin wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:53 pm
They need to get out there and play with folks who have been traumatized by one of their buddies just one day not being around anymore because they decided "today, death matters a whole ton."
Ah yes, the hunter/daedin special. :cry:
Still haven't forgiven Daedin for Daedin/Ubaldo.
Previous:
Oskarr of Procampur, Ro Irokon, Nahal Azyen, Nelehein Afsana (of Impiltur), Vencenti Medici, Nizram ali Balazdam, (Roznik) Naethandreil

Eyeliner
Posts: 479
Joined: Wed May 12, 2021 12:27 am

Re: IC Talking about how "Death is Meaningless"

Post by Eyeliner » Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:50 am

The GrumpyCat wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:04 pm
Mostly it reall comes down to not yelling about how Bob bobson can kill you 30 times, you don't care, you'll just come back ect.
To be fair, sometimes Bob Bobson needs to move on from killing the same person 30 times too. The only times I've felt like screaming that is when someone I'll never be able to beat feels the need to keep picking unnecessary fights.

User avatar
Royal Blood
Posts: 418
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:12 am

Re: IC Talking about how "Death is Meaningless"

Post by Royal Blood » Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:23 pm

I don't like being sick. Even though I know I'll get better I loathe and dread the idea of getting the flu. I figure death works the same way in Arelith. Yeah maybe you know chances are you'll come back. But imagine how tremendously miserable and mentally taxing dying would be... I wouldn't play it off as meaningless. I'd even question IC the sanity of someone who returns frequently from the dead.
I am not on a team.
I do not win, I do not lose.
I tell a story, and when I'm lucky,
Play a part in the story you tell too.

Post Reply