Private Missives/Messages

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riffraff
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Private Missives/Messages

Post by riffraff » Fri Sep 09, 2022 11:30 am

I was gonna put this in the Suggestion Box, but apparently the forum is locked, so instead, I'll make it a question (or series of).

Firstly, I want to preface this by saying that the IC communication options are really cool and it was very appealing to me as a newcomer! But having said that...

Are there ways for more private forms of IC communication between people and if not, could there be? For one thing, I've found it quite silly having serious meetings being constantly interrupted by halfling messengers somehow barging in to shout personal messages to the attendees. For another, there are simply matters that IC people will want to keep private (to a.) not speak to a messenger and b.) potentially be overheard by whoever the recipient happens to be near at the time), but require a messenger.

As such, is there a way to have written messages delivered to a character rather than spoken ones?

Could something like that be plugged in to the current speedy messaging as an option (a messenger delivers a written note to you or, failing that, drops it in front of you)?

If that's not possible, what about the possibility of sealed notes that characters could leave for each other or pay other characters to deliver, knowing that if the seal is broken the recipient would at least know the messenger (or someone else) had a cheeky peek? Something like adding a line to the description and/or title of a note to mark it as having its seal broken.

And I realise the desire for ways of communication to be potentially intercepted for RP purposes and of course endorse this. But it does seem a little odd to me that the only ways to deliver a message is with methods that others can always overhear, despite the Forgotten Realms and historical equivalent of simply delivering a letter. It could lead to some very fun RP if players were used as messengers that could be tracked, followed and intercepted in matters of war or political intrigue especially.
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Re: Private Missives/Messages

Post by DM Monkey » Fri Sep 09, 2022 12:47 pm

There are many ways to achieve these effects in game already. Hiring someone to deliver a message, spycraft, encoded messages, phrases/passwords to be delivered in public but only have real meaning for one person (sent to someone you know will be nearby to really mask it), illusions, notes passed into someone's inventory via the barter window, and so on.

Almost all of these have some sort of counterplay or public signal that they are being used. It's important to realise that nothing is truly secret or safe on Arelith. Frodo would have had a heck of a time.

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Hazard
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Re: Private Missives/Messages

Post by Hazard » Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:12 pm

I really love the idea of sealed letters. Anyone could open them, but the seal would be broken and they'd know it was opened!

This sounds really fun to me. Is this possible!?

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Re: Private Missives/Messages

Post by Good Character » Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:15 pm

Bring in the signet rings!

Other options that can take the place of a messenger: placing letters on shops or quarters for whomever can access either.

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Re: Private Missives/Messages

Post by Amateur Hour » Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:47 pm

Hazard wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:12 pm
I really love the idea of sealed letters. Anyone could open them, but the seal would be broken and they'd know it was opened!

This sounds really fun to me. Is this possible!?
Having not actually looked at NWN's coding, I imagine it could work if the Sealed Letter item were a single-use item. Using the item on itself would destroy the item and create a new item, the Unsealed Letter, which could work like the letters of today.

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riffraff
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Re: Private Missives/Messages

Post by riffraff » Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:54 pm

DM Monkey wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 12:47 pm
There are many ways to achieve these effects in game already. Hiring someone to deliver a message, spycraft, encoded messages, phrases/passwords to be delivered in public but only have real meaning for one person (sent to someone you know will be nearby to really mask it), illusions, notes passed into someone's inventory via the barter window, and so on.

Almost all of these have some sort of counterplay or public signal that they are being used. It's important to realise that nothing is truly secret or safe on Arelith. Frodo would have had a heck of a time.
The encoded messages is a good idea, but if the message is private but not actually spyworthy it's a bit much, I think. :lol: To be honest, the example in game that made me start mulling this over was fairly mundane. My character has something private to discuss with someone, who asked them to send them a speedy to set up a meeting. She's not too keen on even putting her name in a message to set up said meeting - not because it's nefarious, but because it's personal. It made me wonder how to get around it and it sent cogs churning. There have also been a couple of meetings I've been in where speedy messengers interrupted things repeatedly and I, personally, found it a bit immersion breaking (because the idea that the messengers would barge in even if able to and shout their message over the meeting was more than a little silly to me).

I realise the ability for a message to be intercepted is important, like I said, I am all for the ability to counter such things (if it were up to me - and tech could allow - I think speedy messengers should be able to be tracked and intercepted). A speedy running up and saying they hand you a note is still a signal it's being used, something that could still have you persuaded or threatened into sharing, for example, the same way as if a player handed the note to you through barter.

I just find it odd that from an IC standpoint, speedy messengers can't/won't deliver letters, only bellow their messages to all and sundry. Players are an option, but also from an IC standpoint it would be awesome to have a simple way of knowing if your message had been read by someone it shouldn't have (like wax seals) - otherwise you're relying purely on the honour system.
Amateur Hour wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:47 pm
Having not actually looked at NWN's coding, I imagine it could work if the Sealed Letter item were a single-use item. Using the item on itself would destroy the item and create a new item, the Unsealed Letter, which could work like the letters of today.
And yeah, I was imagining something like this. Though I don't know how easy it would be for the Sealed Letter to keep track of the writing stored inside it for switching to an Unsealed Letter. Or working in a similar way to how enchanting changes descriptions and names of things.
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Re: Private Missives/Messages

Post by Good Character » Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:14 pm

Amateur Hour wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:47 pm

Having not actually looked at NWN's coding, I imagine it could work if the Sealed Letter item were a single-use item. Using the item on itself would destroy the item and create a new item, the Unsealed Letter, which could work like the letters of today.
Ravenloft/POTM has had a working system for years now. It works exactly like that.

1. Original letter
2. Use a signet ring on it causing it to be sealed
3. New item is made to represent the original letter
4. "Use Item" reverts the sealed letter back to its original form and updates the description to let you know it's been unsealed (or something to that fashion)

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Re: Private Missives/Messages

Post by Mattamue » Sat Sep 10, 2022 12:58 am

riffraff wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:54 pm
speedy messengers interrupted things repeatedly
I didn't see these two things mentioned yet so I'll call them out. You can turn off speedys for a time by talking to a speedy and turning the service off for a time. Or, if its a spontaneous meeting, by going into stealth mode. Even if your stealth sucks being in the mode will stop speedies after a bit.

Otherwise, into the discussion of things. If you really want to be shady and tricky, even for something as non-antagonistic as playing a more private character, you need to get creative and be hyper vigilant about what you give away. Meaning give away nothing. Someone somewhere is going to put it in a journal or on a message board if your actions are even the slightest bit shady. I'm trying a disguise character recently and my attempts at offering shady hooks are stomped on as often as they're ignored. Ultimately, having a letter delivered by a speedy over a verbal message delivered by a speedy isn't going to change much in the culture I don't think. Someone is still going to see a character get a speedy and make a note of it.

My ultimate point to add to the discussion and I don't think delivering letters over messages will change this: You have to actually get crafty if you want to play the subterfuge game because it seems to me that you have to beat the players. Sending a speedy to someone else standing there is brilliant and I wish I had thought of it and I wish it wasn't broadcast so that people weren't thinking about it.

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riffraff
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Re: Private Missives/Messages

Post by riffraff » Sat Sep 10, 2022 5:22 pm

Mattamue wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 12:58 am
I didn't see these two things mentioned yet so I'll call them out. You can turn off speedys for a time by talking to a speedy and turning the service off for a time. Or, if its a spontaneous meeting, by going into stealth mode. Even if your stealth sucks being in the mode will stop speedies after a bit.
Problem is, in the examples where it happened that I was present, they were public(ish) meetings of lots of people and it wasn't me receiving the messages. But I concede it's just something that irritated me personally and that in and of itself it may not be a problem just because I found it immersion breaking.
Mattamue wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 12:58 am
Otherwise, into the discussion of things. If you really want to be shady and tricky... [snip]
I 100% agree with you that people who want to be shady need to be intelligent about it - I for one wouldn't use speedies for clandestine messaging. :lol: However, I don't agree that having letter delivery wouldn't help people trying to be shady do so intelligently - I think it would just make people wanting to spy on that shadiness have to work a little bit harder for it, which I personally think is only a good thing for RP.

The crux of my suggestions/argument is that it seems silly IC the way speedy messengers deliver their messages, that it's the only way they deliver messages. And I will reiterate for all: I'm not asking for a catch-all way to have entirely secret messages that no one else can uncover in anyway. That would be rubbish for RP, meta as all Hells and ultimately boring. I just generally believe more options means more chances for RP (though, granted, also more complication).

Also I would absolutely play a character who is a letter courier and want to live out my dreams of being a patsy carrying a sealed letter, with no idea it contains the key to winning the war/saving the realm/dooming the monarch etc (Courier Six sends their regards). Sounds a lot more fun than warded packages, to me.
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