Is Myth Drannor retaken or not?

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Amateur Hour
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Is Myth Drannor retaken or not?

Post by Amateur Hour » Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:20 pm

It's been five in-character years since Arelith has diverged from the canon timeline. A lot happened in the canon timeline between 1373 and 1378, including the retaking of Myth Drannor, which is a hugely significant event for elves and everyone from that area of the world. I've run into characters who insist it has been retaken, those who say it's rumor...it's getting confusing.

Simple question: Has this happened? More complex question: has anything else in the timeline happened that we should consider real?

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Re: Is Myth Drannor retaken or not?

Post by Eira » Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:56 pm

Unless an event after 1372 is explicitly stated to have happened, then it has not. So that is a no.

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Re: Is Myth Drannor retaken or not?

Post by JustMonika » Mon Nov 07, 2022 8:33 pm

Amateur Hour wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:20 pm
It's been five in-character years since Arelith has diverged from the canon timeline. A lot happened in the canon timeline between 1373 and 1378, including the retaking of Myth Drannor, which is a hugely significant event for elves and everyone from that area of the world. I've run into characters who insist it has been retaken, those who say it's rumor...it's getting confusing.

Simple question: Has this happened? More complex question: has anything else in the timeline happened that we should consider real?
Where do you get the figure of five in character years from? Hasn't it been well over 100 years by now?

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Re: Is Myth Drannor retaken or not?

Post by Amateur Hour » Mon Nov 07, 2022 8:55 pm

JustMonika wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2022 8:33 pm

Where do you get the figure of five in character years from? Hasn't it been well over 100 years by now?
Right here.

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Re: Is Myth Drannor retaken or not?

Post by Kuma » Mon Nov 14, 2022 12:16 am

Amateur Hour wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:20 pm
It's been five in-character years since Arelith has diverged from the canon timeline. A lot happened in the canon timeline between 1373 and 1378, including the retaking of Myth Drannor, which is a hugely significant event for elves and everyone from that area of the world. I've run into characters who insist it has been retaken, those who say it's rumor...it's getting confusing.

Simple question: Has this happened? More complex question: has anything else in the timeline happened that we should consider real?
We are not following WotC's timeline and history of events. Our DR calendar post-1372 follow an alternative timeline unique to Arelith.

That means all events happening during and after 1372 as published by Wizards of the Coast will, by default, not be reflected on Arelith. While we reserve the right to individually reference post-1372 events, it will be only at Irongron's discretion, and they will be listed on this thread in one of the posts below. Unless it's on that post, it never happened. We are doing our own thing, we just happen to use the same calendar.
No, it has not been retaken.

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Re: Is Myth Drannor retaken or not?

Post by Amateur Hour » Mon Nov 14, 2022 12:36 am

Now that that's confirmed, is there any suggestion for how to handle this in-character that isn't just refusing to believe them? Because there's only so much refusing to believe works against "of course it's retaken; I was just there a month ago! Let me tell you all about it" and I know there's a segment of the server that's actively hostile towards Tells to address such things.

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Re: Is Myth Drannor retaken or not?

Post by The GrumpyCat » Mon Nov 14, 2022 1:22 am

Amateur Hour wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 12:36 am
Now that that's confirmed, is there any suggestion for how to handle this in-character that isn't just refusing to believe them? Because there's only so much refusing to believe works against "of course it's retaken; I was just there a month ago! Let me tell you all about it" and I know there's a segment of the server that's actively hostile towards Tells to address such things.
A few suggestions for how to deal with lore noncompliance from myself (not all valid to this situation I want to add, please ignore the first three for those)

*For some stuff, (not neccesarly this) honestly? Roll with it. For big Cannon events I can see why that'd be a bad idea, but if it's small, or 'not likely but possible' or just interesting - when I don't see why not?
*Refusal to believe of of course 'no that's wrong' In Character
*Talking ooc - though I can see why sometimes that's problematic. That's a call to make player by player.
(More valid to this)
*Just not really engaging with that aspect of their backstory. 'I'm from Myth Drannor it's been recaptured' 'Yeah sure mate. Say did you hear about that cupcake party last week?' - Don't feed into it, just ignore it, present other topics/things more intersting.
*If it's something that is particularly egregious (Hi I'm a Jedi from Space!) or its something very none compliant that they are literally screaming about every five minutes (Hi I'm from RECLAIMED MYTH DRANNOR which was TOTTALY RECLAIMED and let me talk of nothing but THE RECLAIMING nd how the RECLAIMING OF MYTH DRANNOR WAS AWSOME and all my conversation is ABOUT RECLAIMING MYTH DRANNOR' - then bring it to our attention and we can talk to them. That said, please save this for especially egregious examples.
This too shall pass.

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Re: Is Myth Drannor retaken or not?

Post by Dragonovith » Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:21 am

Some conflicting lore like this could be explained by NPCs. In the specific case of Myth Drannor, it could be explained maybe by someone in the Embassy of Evermeet.

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Re: Is Myth Drannor retaken or not?

Post by Mattamue » Mon Nov 14, 2022 3:34 am

Is the retaking some 4e stuff or something?

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Re: Is Myth Drannor retaken or not?

Post by Amateur Hour » Mon Nov 14, 2022 3:41 am

Per the Forgotten Realms wiki, it's covered in The Grand History of the Realms, which was published the year before 4e came out.

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Re: Is Myth Drannor retaken or not?

Post by Amateur Hour » Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:27 pm

Dragonovith wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:21 am
Some conflicting lore like this could be explained by NPCs. In the specific case of Myth Drannor, it could be explained maybe by someone in the Embassy of Evermeet.
This is a good idea!

I also think it would be a good idea if there were something added to the Arelith Entry that explicitly states the point of canon divergence; this is only going to become a bigger problem as time moves forward. I know a lot of people don't read the signs, but it took genuine looking to find where it says on the forum and wiki when the canon divergence starts, and I had the advantage of knowing there is a canon divergence point; a new player to Arelith doesn't know to look for something they don't know exists, and I saw absolutely no mention of it in the places I imagine a new Arelith player would go for 'getting started' information.

Edit: There is a brief pseudo-mention in the player handbook, but it doesn't say that nothing has happened post-1372 unless the admins/DMs say it has happened.

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Re: Is Myth Drannor retaken or not?

Post by Ebonstar » Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:35 pm

Amateur Hour wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:27 pm
Dragonovith wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:21 am
Some conflicting lore like this could be explained by NPCs. In the specific case of Myth Drannor, it could be explained maybe by someone in the Embassy of Evermeet.
This is a good idea!

I also think it would be a good idea if there were something added to the Arelith Entry that explicitly states the point of canon divergence; this is only going to become a bigger problem as time moves forward. I know a lot of people don't read the signs, but it took genuine looking to find where it says on the forum and wiki when the canon divergence starts, and I had the advantage of knowing there is a canon divergence point; a new player to Arelith doesn't know to look for something they don't know exists, and I saw absolutely no mention of it in the places I imagine a new Arelith player would go for 'getting started' information.

Edit: There is a brief pseudo-mention in the player handbook, but it doesn't say that nothing has happened post-1372 unless the admins/DMs say it has happened.
"We are not following WotC's timeline and history of events. Our DR calendar post-1372 follow an alternative timeline unique to Arelith.

That means all events happening during and after 1372 as published by Wizards of the Coast will, by default, not be reflected on Arelith. While we reserve the right to individually reference post-1372 events, it will be only at Irongron's discretion, and they will be listed on this thread in one of the posts below. Unless it's on that post, it never happened. We are doing our own thing, we just happen to use the same calendar."

The answer to your question is in the post you referenced above.

As for the character saying they are from Myth Drannor, a tell is the best way to fix this.
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Re: Is Myth Drannor retaken or not?

Post by Mattamue » Mon Nov 14, 2022 7:02 pm

Amateur Hour wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:27 pm
...where it says on the forum and wiki when the canon divergence starts...
The "Time" link on the wiki front page under world systems links to https://wiki.nwnarelith.com/Time where this message is bold-ed about halfway down the page:

Events that occur in the Wizards of the Coast timeline after 1372 DR are not reflected on Arelith. Only the server owner can indicate that an event from the WotC canon from 1372 and onwards has transpired on the Faerunian mainland. Otherwise, you can (and should) assume it has not happened.

Then there is a helpful list of the things that have happened.

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Re: Is Myth Drannor retaken or not?

Post by Amateur Hour » Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:09 pm

Ebonstar wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:35 pm
Amateur Hour wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:27 pm
Dragonovith wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:21 am
Some conflicting lore like this could be explained by NPCs. In the specific case of Myth Drannor, it could be explained maybe by someone in the Embassy of Evermeet.
This is a good idea!

I also think it would be a good idea if there were something added to the Arelith Entry that explicitly states the point of canon divergence; this is only going to become a bigger problem as time moves forward. I know a lot of people don't read the signs, but it took genuine looking to find where it says on the forum and wiki when the canon divergence starts, and I had the advantage of knowing there is a canon divergence point; a new player to Arelith doesn't know to look for something they don't know exists, and I saw absolutely no mention of it in the places I imagine a new Arelith player would go for 'getting started' information.

Edit: There is a brief pseudo-mention in the player handbook, but it doesn't say that nothing has happened post-1372 unless the admins/DMs say it has happened.
"We are not following WotC's timeline and history of events. Our DR calendar post-1372 follow an alternative timeline unique to Arelith.

That means all events happening during and after 1372 as published by Wizards of the Coast will, by default, not be reflected on Arelith. While we reserve the right to individually reference post-1372 events, it will be only at Irongron's discretion, and they will be listed on this thread in one of the posts below. Unless it's on that post, it never happened. We are doing our own thing, we just happen to use the same calendar."

The answer to your question is in the post you referenced above.

As for the character saying they are from Myth Drannor, a tell is the best way to fix this.
My point is that I found this information - I knew that there was a time divergence in 1373 - because I've been playing since before the time divergence and remembered the post going up. New players are likely not going to read the entire wiki and forum before creating their new character.

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Re: Is Myth Drannor retaken or not?

Post by Ebonstar » Mon Nov 14, 2022 9:44 pm

There has been a time divergence since i can recall and that includes from when I started playing here in 07.

if i recall correctly its even in the server descriptions that nothing on the mainland past 1372 has happened on Arelith.
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Re: Is Myth Drannor retaken or not?

Post by Amateur Hour » Mon Nov 14, 2022 10:34 pm

Ebonstar wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 9:44 pm
There has been a time divergence since i can recall and that includes from when I started playing here in 07.

if i recall correctly its even in the server descriptions that nothing on the mainland past 1372 has happened on Arelith.
All the server description says is that Arelith is set in 1372 DR...which is no longer true.

The issue is that a new player can - new players have - come to the server, read the new player guide on either the main site or the wiki (which is all I think we can reasonably expect every new player to read), and they will not run into the fact that "unless told otherwise, assume no post-1372 canon events have happened despite the year progressing."

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Re: Is Myth Drannor retaken or not?

Post by Kuma » Mon Nov 14, 2022 11:42 pm

Amateur Hour wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 10:34 pm
Ebonstar wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 9:44 pm
There has been a time divergence since i can recall and that includes from when I started playing here in 07.

if i recall correctly its even in the server descriptions that nothing on the mainland past 1372 has happened on Arelith.
All the server description says is that Arelith is set in 1372 DR...which is no longer true.

The issue is that a new player can - new players have - come to the server, read the new player guide on either the main site or the wiki (which is all I think we can reasonably expect every new player to read), and they will not run into the fact that "unless told otherwise, assume no post-1372 canon events have happened despite the year progressing."
Arelith Wiki New Player's Guide wrote: The Setting
Arelith is a small isle off the Sword Coast, closest to Luskan and somewhat close to Ruathym. It takes place in the Forgotten Realms setting, 3.0-3.5 which is after the Time of Troubles but before the Spellplague. Specifically, the Arelith timeline diverges in early 1372 DR: Bane has been resurrected, but Lolth has never gone silent.

Time goes forward, but events that may have happened in the lorebooks past this age may or may not happen in the universe of Arelith at all at discretion of the developer team.
It's actually pretty much there. There isn't anything this detailed on the main arelith dot com website itself, either.

Our time divergence can be traced in The Grand History of the Realms pretty precisely to immediately after Bane being resurrected on Midwinter Night on Hammer 30th/Alturiak 1st. This is a month after Thulanthar returns to Faerun.

If we go any further along that year, we hit the Shadovar trying to drive out the phaerimm occupying Myth Drannor, and a whole heap of elves driving them away, and then the whole reclamation happens - it should be assumed Thulanthar has not erected their Shadowshell over Myth Drannor, nor have they accidentally nuked Tilverton (thanks Vangerdahast).

Funnily enough this also means the Wailing Death hasn't happened (i.e: the events of NWN1), but that's... probably something we can ignore.

I might write a timeline of things that have explicitly happened, expanding on the one Bat Country wrote with the original Time Update. This will require Irongron okay'ing it, though.

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Re: Is Myth Drannor retaken or not?

Post by Ebonstar » Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:19 am

The new handbook is way off as to directions. As it states would mean Arelith is north of the Moonshaes and Waterdeep which it isnt.

It due west from Amn and south of the Moonshaes being a stop over before Maztica.

Whoever is working on the handbook needs to fix that for certain.
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Re: Is Myth Drannor retaken or not?

Post by MissEvelyn » Wed Nov 16, 2022 7:38 pm

Ebonstar wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:19 am
The new handbook is way off as to directions. As it states would mean Arelith is north of the Moonshaes and Waterdeep which it isnt.

It due west from Amn and south of the Moonshaes being a stop over before Maztica.

Whoever is working on the handbook needs to fix that for certain.
I think Skal is up there, but Arelith is definitely far south from that.


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