Monster / UD races on the surface, status quo?
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Monster / UD races on the surface, status quo?
https://wiki.nwnarelith.com/Playing_any_UD_race
Just want to make sure. Been running into UD racial characters on the surface, in places like Mayfields, openly going about with no disguise or stealth effort. And several, IC, have referenced guards not having an issue with them being there. Just want to make sure that is more so a limitation of guard A.I. set up, not a realistic IC expectation of surface to UD race treatment.
Re: Monster / UD races on the surface, status quo?
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Re: Monster / UD races on the surface, status quo?
Re: Monster / UD races on the surface, status quo?
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Re: Monster / UD races on the surface, status quo?
From what I recall:
Kenku, duergar, deep gnome, Fey'ri (demon elfs),Tiefling and Red dragon disciple are okay on surface even if some of them look evil in appearance.
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Re: Monster / UD races on the surface, status quo?
This is correct, though I believe the wiki does warn them that people are going to react with caution and/or fear around them, and to expect that kind of roleplay.Seekeepeek wrote: ↑Sun Dec 25, 2022 3:53 pmSome races are okay, while others are not, it kinda got more blurred over the years.
From what I recall:
Kenku, duergar, deep gnome, Fey'ri (demon elfs),Tiefling and dragon disciple are okay on surface even if some of them look evil in appearance.
Re: Monster / UD races on the surface, status quo?
I was wondering about this, honestly, as I encountered a UD character in Mayfields/Widershins the other day and it felt super weird that the NPCs just happily watched my character and another PC interrogating them. I assumed guards would attack on sight and that NPCs would flee. I'm suddenly understanding why there can be piles of NPC corpses in Cordor on occasion (the poor Night Gardener).
Re: Monster / UD races on the surface, status quo?
Re: Monster / UD races on the surface, status quo?
I'd like to point out what Irongron wrote about it in that link above:
"Now I don't like the kill scripts, I felt they strangled RP, conflict, and treated our players like they couldn't be trusted to roleplay their race properly. Yet if this problem returns, I will definitely either ask they are reintroduced, or remove the offending races as a playable option."
Especially:
"...treated our players like they couldn't be trusted to roleplay their race properly..."
There are tons of recommandations on the wiki on how to play different UD races properly. And depending on what UD race you're seeing in a certain surface place, and doing things there you believe they shouldn't, maybe a message to a DM would be appropriate? General conclusions are probably difficult to make.
Aloise "Lois", Biarray "Ray", Uniethrade. INACTIVE: Ivory Bushdiggger DEAD: Cuchilla. Beliat, Clyasy. Cristyn. Fadriatta. Fraya Stensamler (Chief Librarian). Goirin. Greensleeves. Gwydynya. Hilda. Kaxandra. Trista. Willisa.
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Re: Monster / UD races on the surface, status quo?
https://wiki.nwnarelith.com/Category:Race
Races that are 'monsterous' should not be openly walking around surface settlments, and honestly probably shouldn't feel too comfortable in any sort of heavily surface-race-npc-trafficed area (e.g. Sibiyad, Greyhammer, Westcliff, Sencliff ect). Certainly they should Not be owning property of any sort there.
Derugar are a little wierd in that they can feel more comfortable visiting surface settlments openly - (with the exception of Brog and maybe Bendir) but shouldn't be owning property there or taking citizenship/civil service.
Gloaming/Imaskari/Svierfneblin* are wierd in that they are underdark starting races that none the less can live and be active on teh surface as they wish (though gloamings and I think Svirfs do suffer from sunlight penalities)
Vampires/Rackshasa can be as active on the surface but it's suggested that they keep their real 'persona' hidden if they want to do so.
*- Ok, gotta admit not 100% sure on Svifs, if other DMs want to correct me there please do.
(I now have a DM Discord (I hope) It's DM GrumpyCat#7185 but please keep in mind I'm very busy IRL so I can't promise how quick I'll get back to you.)
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Re: Monster / UD races on the surface, status quo?
I've been always curious about this. Is Guldorand an exception to this given the charter and that a duergar NPC owns one of the most important shops in the city? If Guldorand is an exception, exception to which part? Owning property, being able to run the settlement, or both?The GrumpyCat wrote: ↑Mon Dec 26, 2022 5:59 pmDerugar... shouldn't be owning property there or taking citizenship/civil service.
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Re: Monster / UD races on the surface, status quo?
That's a good question and honstly not one I feel confident answering. I'd rather ask Irongron that. I'm inclined to say no to both - (though the property aspect I think at least in freeport would make sense) just for ease. But I'd welcome his overruling me on that.Good Character wrote: ↑Mon Dec 26, 2022 6:29 pmI've been always curious about this. Is Guldorand an exception to this given the charter and that a duergar NPC owns one of the most important shops in the city? If Guldorand is an exception, exception to which part? Owning property, being able to run the settlement, or both?The GrumpyCat wrote: ↑Mon Dec 26, 2022 5:59 pmDerugar... shouldn't be owning property there or taking citizenship/civil service.
(I now have a DM Discord (I hope) It's DM GrumpyCat#7185 but please keep in mind I'm very busy IRL so I can't promise how quick I'll get back to you.)
Re: Monster / UD races on the surface, status quo?
Whilst expecting a DMs answer, my take on it.The GrumpyCat wrote: ↑Mon Dec 26, 2022 5:59 pm.../Svierfneblin* are wierd in that they are underdark starting races that none the less can live and be active on teh surface as they wish (though gloamings and I think Svirfs do suffer from sunlight penalities)
*- Ok, gotta admit not 100% sure on Svifs, if other DMs want to correct me there please do.
The issue with svirfs is not what they can, but they would do. Svirfs are supposed to be very, very secluded, and very much inclined to stay near their village, not get too far from home, like staying for a longer time on the surface. If they do, they'd prolly feel very uncomfortable, especially with the light, as they are used to move around in complete darkness. They do celebrate the stars once a year, but that doesn't mean they yearn to get back to the surface. Callarduran Smoothhand lead his people into the Underdark long before drow and duergar, and unlike drow and duergar they were never ousted from the surface, they choose the Underdark out of love (for gems).
On Arelith, there has traditionally been a possibility to connect Brog, Bendir and the Grotto, so I presume Svirfs feel safe there for shorter stays, as long as they can get safe back to their dark home. Any other place on the surface, they would probably try to pass through as fast as possible. The rubies they seek, will not be there
The days where Bendir was lead by two svirfneblin sisters are long gone
Aloise "Lois", Biarray "Ray", Uniethrade. INACTIVE: Ivory Bushdiggger DEAD: Cuchilla. Beliat, Clyasy. Cristyn. Fadriatta. Fraya Stensamler (Chief Librarian). Goirin. Greensleeves. Gwydynya. Hilda. Kaxandra. Trista. Willisa.
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Re: Monster / UD races on the surface, status quo?
If you ask me there ought to be more suspicion towards them from non-earthkin surface players (mostly I just see indifference, probably because those players legit don't know what to do around svirf PCs so they do the minimum) and maybe they should have light penalties (they don't), but as it is now it's pretty common and expected for them to be roaming up above.
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Re: Monster / UD races on the surface, status quo?
(I now have a DM Discord (I hope) It's DM GrumpyCat#7185 but please keep in mind I'm very busy IRL so I can't promise how quick I'll get back to you.)
Re: Monster / UD races on the surface, status quo?
Arelith can get VERY zealous when it comes to race and faith. Not saying it's bad. It's just how it is on the island, and I consider it an interesting and IC phenomenon, but it can be a little stiffling when you want to play a certain character idea and are basically given the option of, okay. You can be good/permanently undercover and play normally, or you can wear 63 black and live in the underdark, do not pass go do not collect drow girlfriend.
I know the topic has been beaten to death but it would be nice if there was a surface settlement that at least begrudgingly just allowed most races in favor of trade. Sort of like we keep saying the hub/andunor is supposed to be, but like.. actually.
Players can stop other players from using the hub based on personal conflict, even when it is a merchant PC doing merchant things, and the DMs are alerted, the peacekeepers aren't being used to correct the behaviour. A few instances of this happening tells me that Andunor is not actually the 'trade comes first' type of city as advertised. It has a strong "national" identity, and a stranger who hasn't "proven" themselves, even if they are just standing around selling things, can be attacked/chased off/killed in public without reason. But as long as it's IC, I can't actually blame players for wanting to do this, becuase it IS the underdark and there are so many extreme evils there it can often make more sense to behave that way, than the way we're expected to. Andunor has dominant Drow houses (TWO!), Mindflayer and Undead NPCS. Two of the three districts guarded by a retinue of literal immortal beings of pure evil, Devils, Demons. It has a lot of extremes going for it beyond 'trade first'.
Players will naturally want to stake a claim and own a part of the module, that's fine. I really think a settlement existing somewhere like, On the surface, but maybe it even has access to a part of the UD? A settlement that is filled with something "normal" for the setting, like the common playable races. Nothing too openly extreme either way, so that you can even lure in some 'good' characters and their gold. A place that is actually trade first, would be awesome. If there is anything unsavory like a drow, or a paladin, those are tucked away where they won't scare off customers. Stuff like that. It would allow good and evil characters to mingle a bit more and experience each other in ways beyond just open conflict and covert conflict.
UNRELATED: Where do Shadovar fit into this stuff?
Re: Monster / UD races on the surface, status quo?
Thanks for the clarification <3The GrumpyCat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 27, 2022 12:21 amI checked with the staff with Svifs and they're fine on the surface! Akin to gloamings and Imaskeri. Though they do have their own settlment though , so I think it'd be best if Svirf players tried (if possible) to take property there rather than elsewhere, and there's of course a matter of general quality of rp. but that's an rpr issue, not a rules issue. Svirfs are fine on the surface.
Aloise "Lois", Biarray "Ray", Uniethrade. INACTIVE: Ivory Bushdiggger DEAD: Cuchilla. Beliat, Clyasy. Cristyn. Fadriatta. Fraya Stensamler (Chief Librarian). Goirin. Greensleeves. Gwydynya. Hilda. Kaxandra. Trista. Willisa.
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Re: Monster / UD races on the surface, status quo?
Hazard wrote: ↑Tue Dec 27, 2022 2:50 amPlayers will naturally want to stake a claim and own a part of the module, that's fine. I really think a settlement existing somewhere like, On the surface, but maybe it even has access to a part of the UD? A settlement that is filled with something "normal" for the setting, like the common playable races. Nothing too openly extreme either way, so that you can even lure in some 'good' characters and their gold. A place that is actually trade first, would be awesome. If there is anything unsavory like a drow, or a paladin, those are tucked away where they won't scare off customers. Stuff like that. It would allow good and evil characters to mingle a bit more and experience each other in ways beyond just open conflict and covert conflict.
Isn't this what the Trading Post in the Underdark is supposed to be? Halfway between Brog and Andunor. That's the reason the NPC Ogre who runs the place gives when you talk to him anyway.
Re: Monster / UD races on the surface, status quo?
Melchizedek14 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 26, 2023 5:27 pmHazard wrote: ↑Tue Dec 27, 2022 2:50 amPlayers will naturally want to stake a claim and own a part of the module, that's fine. I really think a settlement existing somewhere like, On the surface, but maybe it even has access to a part of the UD? A settlement that is filled with something "normal" for the setting, like the common playable races. Nothing too openly extreme either way, so that you can even lure in some 'good' characters and their gold. A place that is actually trade first, would be awesome. If there is anything unsavory like a drow, or a paladin, those are tucked away where they won't scare off customers. Stuff like that. It would allow good and evil characters to mingle a bit more and experience each other in ways beyond just open conflict and covert conflict.
Isn't this what the Trading Post in the Underdark is supposed to be? Halfway between Brog and Andunor. That's the reason the NPC Ogre who runs the place gives when you talk to him anyway.
I thought so too, but you can't even use that portal if you aren't an UD race, outcast or slave anymore.