Ethical lumbering, by nature magic/gift?

[UilliamNebel]

Might seem silly, but could a Druid character safely assume they were using their gifts of Toril to 'ask' a tree for its wood, per some of the means like introduced in AD&D 2e that had cantrips or abilities to this end?

Reason I ask is, Dethos as a ranger straight fells trees, going by the way Realms lore gives that treants and awakened trees taught Druids and Rangers how to properly identify trees needing to be fell for firebreaks and as dangerous overgrowth to help protect the wild lands from Bugbears, orcs, etc (Side note: No, lumbering inherently in the Realms is not evil to nature folk, exploitation of resources, vandalism, and desecration of the wilds is).

But for some druids IC, this is not an option given the character's personal ethics. So can they safely assume they have means of nature magic to ethically lumber without destruction of a tree?

[Gilbert K]

So here's the thing.

Yeah, you can absolutely go around saying "I am a druid/ranger, and I am obtaining lumber through ethical means." I've seen it roleplayed before that druid magic is what's keeping trees coming back to their former heights every server reset or whatever. I, personally, like this idea on paper.

But on the same token, because none of this 2e lore is mechanically enforced on this server. There's no NPC that's saying "Yeah, that's happening". There's no actual "Regrow the Tree" spell. So all of this comes down to what the community at large is willing to abide. So when your character is chopping down a tree and a Silvanite draws their weapon on you, your "I asked the tree and he said it was okay" defense is only gonna fly if they allow it. Because you didn't actually talk to that tree mechanically. It's your word against theirs. And neither of you can be proven right.

So the short answer to your question is "No, but I wish".

[Party in the forest at midnight]

Just go and get wood from the Forest of Despair. It's a cursed forest where even the trees will attack you. You can say you're trying to cleanse the evil tainted trees.

[Kuma]

Also, this is a PSA to anyone who thinks that mining some of a resource out of a node (ie getting some wood from a tree but not finishing the tree until it disappears) is better to represent this - it doesn't regrow, at all (until reset), and the next person to come along will just be left with like. One hit left on the node. It's mechanically superior to finish it off so it definitely respawns.

[Amateur Hour]

The way I tend to see it is that you will always have nature-types played by people who have never heard of a fire-dependent species, who believe that the only way to be a druid is to be a rawist natural-fall fruitarian who only wears fallen leaves sewn together with fallen pine needles. There is nothing stopping your characters from calling such nature-types out on their unreasonable extremist and unbalanced stance. It could turn into a story; it could turn into character growth.

[Crookedblossom]

I think nine times out of ten, most people aren't going to care much if you're just one dude getting some resources. In my experience, the IC conflict from druids/rangers comes when there's like a huge resource drive or a settlement based solely around mass resource gathering. Not so much when its one dude getting some lumber for a project of his.

That being said, I honestly don't think there's anything wrong with a little bit of tension or conflict in the form of a nature-person just questioning the intent of someone coming around their designated protectorate with a hatchet. It's a good way to initiate some RP and makes the world feel more alive, in my opinion.

Lastly, and this is my personal opinion, I think its a bit goofy to say "I asked the tree and he said it was ok." I think its a perfectly acceptable response to just, like you stated, bring up your character's training in identifying trees in the woodland that are ripe for cutting. I think that opens up far more opportunity to discuss backstory, or even just allude to a mystical tradition known only to select few.

I think any scrap of detail that makes what you're doing more mysterious and mystical is A++.

[Skibbles]

Not every tree is good for the forest in the same way that not every plant is good for the garden, or every animal may not be good for the ecosystem (like an invasive species from outside the natural development for that area).

Perhaps framing it as forest maintenance, fire prevention, or big picture ecological awareness to the overall health of the land may work.

[Old Lies Die Harder]

An interesting way of creating conflict that doesn't have you camping resource nodes in a manner that denies their use would be taking umbrage with the MEANS of harvesting a resource.

You could:
*Not bother people harvesting wood with axes, but take issue with using fire
*Propose alternatives to casters who harvest with fire (ie, use frost or acid instead, or summons, since those won't catch or spread!)
*Offer to harvest the wood 'ethically' for them, and roleplay some means of extraction appropriate to what your sheet can do, (one of the above means, but maybe with some emotes about WHICH branches to harvest, etc) then give them the product.

This way, you could create interplay with other characters, have conflict, but have multiple avenues for that conflict to resolve that aren't one of you getting lamestomped.

I did this as a non-druid Guardsman back in the day, as people would use Combust to harvest coal veins. My Guard would chase anyone down who did that, because no one wants coal fires beneath Cordor, and would instead offer alternatives. By and large it was well received.

[Eyeliner]

An interesting way of creating conflict that doesn't have you camping resource nodes in a manner that denies their use would be taking umbrage with the MEANS of harvesting a resource.

You could:
*Not bother people harvesting wood with axes, but take issue with using fire
*Propose alternatives to casters who harvest with fire (ie, use frost or acid instead, or summons, since those won't catch or spread!)
*Offer to harvest the wood 'ethically' for them, and roleplay some means of extraction appropriate to what your sheet can do, (one of the above means, but maybe with some emotes about WHICH branches to harvest, etc) then give them the product.

This way, you could create interplay with other characters, have conflict, but have multiple avenues for that conflict to resolve that aren't one of you getting lamestomped.

I did this as a non-druid Guardsman back in the day, as people would use Combust to harvest coal veins. My Guard would chase anyone down who did that, because no one wants coal fires beneath Cordor, and would instead offer alternatives. By and large it was well received.

Yeah I like this. Confronting people simply for gathering wood, something you need to do to play the game, gets old quickly. It's a no-win situation for them because characters need those basic elements to craft (or they need to fish, or defend themselves against NPC animals who go red on sight, etc) and it's great that you're playing a dogmatic nature lover but you have to let other people do the things they need to do to play the game. Be a hard*ss, but least give the characters you confront some wiggle room or ability to discuss or negotiate instead of saying "I will kill anyone who touches a tree in the Arelith forest"

[Old Lies Die Harder]

I think it's important to highlight what you said about "no-win." I think that's a really good way to put it!

There's a lot of conflict that is "my resolution or death," and it's boring because it's not really very interactive and often ends up being one sided story telling. People don't want to be bored.

Always be mindful of this, and try to entice people into back and forth with conflict and has multiple options, or is at least fun for all parties on an OOC level.

Much like putting a character in 'jail.' Being in jail shouldn't be fun for the character, but if you're capturing someone and not making an effort to make it fun for the player you're just wasting another person's leisure time and thus, doing it wrong. Inconvenience from conflict is the same way. Always try to make it fun.

Be a hard*ss, but least give the characters you confront some wiggle room or ability to discuss or negotiate instead of saying "I will kill anyone who touches a tree in the Arelith forest"

This too! I've been around for a good while, and I've actually seen this occur in both the Bramble Woods an in Arelith forest. Inevitably what happens is that the character that goes and kills people for harvesting resources ends up on the receiving end of a larger force/someone better at pvp and starts getting killed more often than they kill. Always look for avenues of storytelling that don't rely on just "obey or fugue", because the more you do that, the more likely you are to discover that there are a lot of people better at the old click-kill than you might be. Or have more friends.