Roleplaying Epic Levels

[_Voss]

For a while now I've been interested in giving Arelith a go, but the level range has always stopped me from really committing to a character. Specifically the roleplaying aspect of everyone being an epic-level character, it's something I haven't been able to wrap my head around.

Is it common sense that people on the Isle do not die? Is it normal that people venture into the hells like it's just another tuesday?

When every city guard has trounced a hundred dragons, people come back from the dead like it's an inconvenience. And your local wizard whips out a Deva with the gravitas of getting their pet dog to do party tricks.

How can there be any immersion?

So that's what I'm asking basically, how do you guys portray your 30th level characters while staying immersed?

I appreciate any and all who take the time to answer, as I do really want to give the server a shot.

Cheers guys,
-Voss

[The GrumpyCat]

One aspect of this I will touch on, as it's something we as DMs do enforce, is the Death aspect.

Whilst we arn't so fussy about PvE, at least with PvP deaths we do expect roleplayers to treat that with a modicum of seriouness.

Going 'Oh yes, such-and-such killed me yesterday but it's all good I died twelve times last week to the Pink Uncorn guild.' Would likely result in punishments, for a vareity of reasons.

For a very brief rundown of the rules Re. Death.
a) You cannot rp with the person(s) that killed you until 48 rl hours after your death. (note that this rule can be wavered if both parties agree)
b) You should generally not be remembering the incidents that lead up to your death. If Bob the Killer kills you, you shouldn't be running around going 'Bob killed me!' (There's a whole lot more to this ruling, and a ginormous thread on it going at present, but that's the rough jist)
c) Death should not be taken for granted and be taken seriously - especially PvP deaths. Running around going 'It doesn't matter if such-and-such kills me, I'll just respawn!' will earn you a Mark of Dispair or the like. Which is a token that means upon dying a certain amount of times, your character is automatcally deleted.

As a tip on how to roleplay point c) Though OOC we allow respawning for a vareity of reasons too many go to into right now, and don't really force permadeath outside the special MoD sitautions - ICly I find it best to pretend it's a lottery. Yes, maybe your god(s) or tricks or whatever brought you back/worked this time. But will they work the next? Or the next? Or the next after that? Death can still mean 'gone forever' so best take it seriously.

Again, I think the team generally cares less re. pve deaths, unless the people really take the micky anyway. Mostly I myself, and many others I've seen, tend to rp most PvE deaths as 'knocked out and awoke somewhere else' or 'escaped by the very skin of our teeth' or 'was unconcious but reskcued by a friendly shirpa.' Or what have you. Your milage may vary of course. People can still of course appraoch a dungeon rping nervousness at the idea they could die, it's just few do.

Hope that helps with that aspect at least? I'm sure the community will have lots of other - and likely excellent - ideas of how to deal with the rest.

[Amateur Hour]

A couple thoughts on the matter that kind of need separating out:

• Immersion is a matter of feeling like the world you are inhabiting is internally consistent. Some things on Arelith are significantly easier than in 3e PnP; others are significantly harder (e.g. the spell "Sending" doesn't exist; to get a similar functionality you need to be an epic level and have the Greater Spell Focus: Illusion feat). Within itself Arelith is pretty consistent, but if you keep trying to compare it to PnP, you will have immersion breaks. View it like a moderately-tweaked homebrew setting and you'll be fine.

• It's clear in the design of the island through the worldbuilding (IC books, fixtures in dungeons, etc.) that Arelith is an insanely dangerous place that's extremely weird in terms of magic. Once people get past their first character - who usually has some difficulties adapting to the setting, and that's totally okay when you aren't sure what to expect - their subsequent characters usually address the issue of why any sane person would come to a place where there are multiple dragons and the occasional portal that leads directly to the Abyss. These answers can get really interesting and lead to some cool stories.

• Specifically addressing the planar stuff, it's also clear in the worldbuilding that planar entities are extremely keen on messing with things on Arelith for Reasons(tm). Devas, slaadi, etc. being around all the time makes a lot of sense, as does traveling to the Hells (though "make sense" here is on an OOC level; I had an infernal warlock who would go to Dis frequently, but she was consistently extremely foolish).

• There are pretty strict rules that are getting even stricter about death, particularly death through PvP. If you consistently and insistently treat death flippantly on Arelith (particularly talking about death flippantly), expect to get a Mark of Despair (i.e. "your character will be automatically deleted after you die ten more times"). When people see flippant death behavior, they should be reporting it.

• This is definitely a "your mileage may vary" situation, but the vast, VAST majority of my Arelith experience has contained no combat. I had a character that I played nearly every day that had nearly zero combat experiences for a full real-world year, and I never felt bored because there's plenty to do where my level and combat prowess were nearly completely irrelevant.

[Royal Blood]

This is tough but good to think about. I do not enjoy the whimsical use of higher level magic or the immediately available cure alls for everything.

My advice and what I personally consider good is to develop a character reason for why your character does what they do. For example, if you can like summon a deva maybe your character says a prayer out loud or grips a religious artifact. It's small, but then it's just a link that makes it more tangible then oh I can summon devas.

Ultimately, this is where I think the RPR ratings come into play. Players who seek to increase the depth of their like characters and use mechanics to leverage that. Another example, maybe you can cast greater restoration and a player needs that to get rid of some ailment. You could just run up and cast it, or you could take them to a ritual location. Call on nature or the gods perform a small ceremony then cast the spell.

None god related thing. Maybe you're a smith. Yeah, you could just crank out a like elf blade and throw it in a store. Or, you could refuse to forge them for no one but elves and you use a very specific forge nestled in the deeper woods or something.

Like your character depth is in your hands. In my opinion, the efforts of players to increase that depth are the ones who have the higher RPR amongst like other reasons

I realize this wasn't an RPR question but if you ask yourself like is there a mechanical reason to RP like this then the answer is yes.

Conclusion: when you have strong character motivations and development of character in like total you can RP your epic levels in like a way that is compelling and means more than hey I just did writs now I can summon dragons.

Add value. But it's up to you to add that value.

[Curve]

Make your character's interpretation of events and conflicts immersive and not cynical. Be positive and not negative. Ask yourself what you could do better instead of complaining about what someone else did wrong. We have control of our own fun on Arelith.

[Eyeliner]

I look at it like.. you get to level 30 because it's more fun to have access to a full spellbook and some epic abilities than to be capped at level 10-15. But you're not a god, you're just one of many adventurers and maybe at max level you'd be the equivalent of a level 15 in PnP (depending on the version of D&D). So "epic" here isn't necessarily "epic". The challenges are definitely raised from stock NWN to where most characters can't just steamroll through PVE.

There are other servers that severely limit how high you can go and some are very good but I prefer Arelith myself. In the end this is all fantasy and nothing is "realistic" so I guess it's about what flavor you prefer.

[Marsi]

As with all fiction, we need to suspend our disbelief a little. You'll see these things aren't as important as you might think.

The story happens between players, not between a player and the game mechanics.

[MRFTW]

Mostly, immersion is keeping your mouth shut about all the immersion-breaking things you do every single time you log into the game and hoping that everyone else does the same.

[legionetrangere]

For a while now I've been interested in giving Arelith a go, but the level range has always stopped me from really committing to a character. Specifically the roleplaying aspect of everyone being an epic-level character, it's something I haven't been able to wrap my head around.

Is it common sense that people on the Isle do not die? Is it normal that people venture into the hells like it's just another tuesday?

When every city guard has trounced a hundred dragons, people come back from the dead like it's an inconvenience. And your local wizard whips out a Deva with the gravitas of getting their pet dog to do party tricks.

How can there be any immersion?

So that's what I'm asking basically, how do you guys portray your 30th level characters while staying immersed?

I appreciate any and all who take the time to answer, as I do really want to give the server a shot.

Cheers guys,
-Voss

Too many giants, tieflings and winged people around everywhere, specially Cordor. Feels pretty weird imho

[D4wN]

There are several things I can think of to improve your enjoyment and immerse yourself into this high magic world full of epic levels. I’m not one for playing a lot of alts and I tend to play a main for a long time during their epic levels.

For me the key is to create character flaws and weaknesses. There is a concept with many people that they feel their character should be perfect and flawless. But it’s honestly the flaws of a character that make it immersive and engaging to me. Not only my own character’s weaknesses but learning others. It even seems more impactful to me when we’re able to defeat a big bad dragon but then find ourselves taken down by simple mundane things like phobias or illnesses.

I agree with Royal Blood that I often find it annoying when someone tries to RP a weakness / disease / curse and you have a level 30 just cast remove curse / disease or give you a greater resto and expect you after 2 minutes to just get over it. The point with these things is generally that the person is trying to create a story and engage others in that story but doesn’t want it resolved in 2 seconds.

Anyway, I guess my point is that to me it doesn’t matter if you can sling around hellballs. But what I would recommend to people is that using a spell like that shouldn’t be as easy that you just do it without it having consequences. If I played a caster with access to a spell like that I’d likely RP it having significant backlashes or impacts on my character. I do the same with dying. The few times I’ve died in PVP I’ve RP’d that having huge impacts and long recovery periods often even with lasting impacts either mentally or physically to my characters.

The way you interact with this power and no enforced perma-deaths is entirely up to you and only you control how you immerse yourself into this world / game. If you simply shrug off a death like a cold, I imagine it would be hard to take it seriously yes.

[Kythana]

Honestly? You really can't.

Maybe if everyone took the setting seriously, and played it very straight and reasonable, it might be a bit more believable. And there are small things that you can do.

Having your character view the planes and planar travel with awe. Viewing people who casually travel to the hells/abyss with suspicion and unease. Be amazed at the great feats that other characters speak of. Or maybe even doubt them(even if they're right).

But ultimately, this is a high fantasy server that has reached the logical extreme of what that implies. There are even more problems that aren't highlighted that add to the immersion problem. Including the following:

Transportation: With how many epic level mages there are on Arelith, and the existence of extremely convenient portals everywhere, this topic is completely circumvented. Who needs supply lines or any sort of road patrols? Just teleport everywhere, who cares. This is made even worse by the existence of caravanner NPCs who enable fast travel, but are never used because portals/lenses/boats/yoinking are just much more convenient.

Communication: Between speedy messengers, wisp bottles, illusions, and the parrot trinket, communication on Arelith is essentially a non issue. You can often see ridiculous situations occur when one evil person/monster is spotted upon the surface, and within five minutes, an army of thirty people has assembled because communication is instantaneous. There is a lot of potential RP that is wasted because nearly every epic level PC has a smartphone that has the entire island on speed dial.

Races: The bloat of adding more and more reward races, as well as the awful implementation of the reward system in general has led to this. Planetouched(Aasimar, Tiefling, Genasi), Half-Giants, Kenku, Gloamings, Avariel, Fey and Shadovar are all surface acceptable. I see numerous of these constantly. Even if you try to play a character that is surprised by rare and exotic races, you get worn down really quickly with how often they appear. This is offset even worse by the fact that there is no incentive to ever roll a reward character. So their population is only ever going to go up, unless they're mechanically suboptimal and have really uninteresting visuals/lore.

Economy and Inflation: This is a weird one, and something I haven't really dived into that much. But the isle of Arelith is essentially home to the most wealthy mogul millionaires in the overarching setting. There have been in-game books written on this subject, but just from a cursory glance, this is almost impossible to justify. Unless inflation has happened world wide, and one million gold is considered a normal amount for adventurers, there's really no way to justify poverty from an NPC perspective. Most good aligned characters would be able to uplift countless paupers and beggars into respectable living conditions.

Ultimately, you just have to take the server for what it is, and surround yourself with quality roleplayers.

Find a group that is interested in playing out a more grounded and realistic approach to these problems, instead of the cynical, setting dismissive response that is un-immersive.

There are some problems that will never go away however, unless the server direction is shifted that way and changes are made to combat those issues.

===========================================================================================================
Addendum:

To make this problem even weirder. I've often heard that an Arelith epic level character(level 30) actually translates to a level 14-15 character when compared to the rest of the setting.

With what our characters have access to, and the threats they face? This makes no sense.

If this is true, this compounds the immersion problem even further, by making our "level 15 characters" the most powerful and richest mid teen PCs that have ever existed.

[Nurel]

Too many giants, tieflings and winged people around everywhere, specially Cordor. Feels pretty weird imho

Well, people earn epic sacrifice awards and are not afraid to use'em!

Granted, the Hub is certainly a more appropriate home for monstrous characters to dwell in, but this doesn't mean that Cordor can't be home to non basic races.

What you should consider when "condemning" the high fantasy note of Arelith is that it is actually the post-time of troubles FR setting.

This is the world of Elminster and of Drizzt do Urden, and you are not lost in some backwater nowhereville in the Silver Marches where people earn 3g a year and are commoners. Instead you are placed on a major landmass in the middle of the Trackless Sea, where adventurers go to make a fortune.

When you enter a persistent world you become part of the setting it belongs to.

[The GrumpyCat]

So the award system is, ultimatly, designed for two reasons.

1) To allow a little something extra and exotic, to let people play rare and unusual concepts.

2) To encourage people to roll characters when their story is done. So that we can keep a flow of property/stories/items/ect going.

The problem I had, as a player a few years ago - is that unless you like playing Evil Monster of some sort, there's not really a reason to roll. All the options (bar a few 5% ones) basically dependent on you enjoying playing some form of Evil Bad Guy Murder Monster.

And not to discourage or tar those who do - I highly respect them, but I dont' think I'm alone in saying that... evil Bad Guy Murder Monster isn't really my cup of tea. I enjoy playing on the surface. I enjoy playing good/neutral characters on the surface. And going by player numbers I don't think I'm unusual in this.

So it made sense to me that we should have a lot more options, in the awards, for players who want to spend their nifty award, but who also want to play heroes. And why shouldn't surface players have some more fun racial options too? What's wrong with that? DnD has come a long way in the twenty years since we started after all.

Going forward, I think we have enough racial awards in general and I hope that we move on to some rewards of other types (like the language award, or noble award for example). But I am glad that, as a surface player, we now have lots omre options to choose from when gaining awards.

[MissEvelyn]

Kythana's post above really nails it and strongly echoes how I've been feeling about the server in recent times.

Ultimately, you just have to take the server for what it is, and surround yourself with quality roleplayers.

Find a group that is interested in playing out a more grounded and realistic approach to these problems, instead of the cynical, setting dismissive response that is un-immersive.

The million gold question is, how does one find such like-minded people, especially in a mire of great numbers who are very much not like this?

[Kythana]

Well, people earn epic sacrifice awards and are not afraid to use'em!

Granted, the Hub is certainly a more appropriate home for monstrous characters to dwell in, but this doesn't mean that Cordor can't be home to non basic races.

What you should consider when "condemning" the high fantasy note of Arelith is that it is actually the post-time of troubles FR setting.

This is the world of Elminster and of Drizzt do Urden, and you are not lost in some backwater nowhereville in the Silver Marches where people earn 3g a year and are commoners. Instead you are placed on a major landmass in the middle of the Trackless Sea, where adventurers go to make a fortune.

When you enter a persistent world you become part of the setting it belongs to.

This doesn't really address the point however.

The issue is about managing expectations, and suspension of disbelief. On the topic of rewards and exotic races, the entire system is based around this philosophy that rare races should stay rare. Yes, they exist. And yes, they often do enter normal settlements. But seeing a new giant, avariel, fey, aasimar, or tiefling every other day/week starts to become ridiculous.

This problem has really come to light in recent years, as leveling has become significantly faster. Thus it becomes even easier to churn out characters that exist for nothing than but to roll for an award.

The monthly cap doesn't much matter either, as there are players with stockpiles of awards for whenever the new reward race is released. I.E, Avariel being released and suddenly a flock of 10+ arrive to the isle, despite the race's legendarily rare status.

There is where two design philosophies clash. The mindset of the server and the setting is telling us one thing, but what is actually happening is contradictory. This is where immersion falls apart.

I would argue that there needs to be a cap on the amount of awards a player can have, as well as the amount of award characters that exist in a vault. This is part of how this issue has festered.

The ultimate issue here is that you cannot just "become part of the setting it belongs to" because the setting makes no sense and doesn't conform to its own rules.

[dallion43]

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
I generally adjust to the people I RP with. If you are saying B when they are saying A, it is weird for both sides, and you won't enjoy the interaction.

You need to know people and, more importantly, people knowing you to find "50rpr" and make them spend time on you. I found it challenging. That is unless you are one of those "50rpr" capable of creating a story that makes people adjust to you.

Arelith is still the best place to find RP and an immersive environment. I would accept the server's population's general/standard vibe and approach regarding immersive breaking subjects.
The moment you find a few people you enjoy playing with who enjoy playing with you, it will matter less and less.

Imho, of course.

[Nurel]

The ultimate issue here is that you cannot just "become part of the setting it belongs to" because the setting makes no sense and doesn't conform to its own rules.

But the setting never stated "there are no Avariel on Arelith". Contrary, the implementation of a major award for Avariel underlines the fact that the Arelith setting embraces Avariel and wants them to be a part of the playerbase. The same goes for all other award races.

There are some award races which are locked behind steep RP applications and requirements, such as Vampire and Raksasha. These are the dangerous races, having many of which would defeat the purpose of their implementation in the first place. But they are under strict control by the team, and are actually rare in the game.

Keep in mind that everyone is welcome to explore the Low-fantasy appeal of a peasant character, or a mundane adventurer. You are also welcome to add an element of Permadeath to your character upon creation, if you feel that this level of finality is important to your RP.

If people earn a major award they are expected to use it. There is nothing wrong with flocks of Avariel being present in the middle of the ocean, and there is nothing wrong if we get a few Hags pouring in from hades or with gloaming coming en masse from the shadowrealm. This is what Arelith is. But your character is your own and its up to you to interact with all this stuff the way you see fit. And if someday you earn a major award, you can have yourself a fancy Avariel too, why not?

Edit: I see now this is a derail from the thread topic. Though this quote from above does summarize my input as a reply to the OP

Keep in mind that everyone is welcome to explore the Low-fantasy appeal of a peasant character, or a mundane adventurer. You are also welcome to add an element of Permadeath to your character upon creation, if you feel that this level of finality is important to your RP.

In 2 words: you are welcome to explore roleplaying in any level of "epicness" you are comfortable with, and so is everyone else.

[Kythana]

But the setting never stated "there are no Avariel on Arelith". Contrary, the implementation of a major award for Avariel underlines the fact that the Arelith setting embraces Avariel and wants them to be a part of the playerbase. The same goes for all other award races.

...

If people earn a major award they are expected to use it. There is nothing wrong with flocks of Avariel being present in the middle of the ocean..."

The setting does in fact highlight multiple reasons why Avariel are extremely rare. Arelith's setting may be an AU based on Forgotten Realms, but that doesn't mean the core lore of that original setting is to just be casually disregarded.

Yes, Avariel exist, and yes they venture into the world. But this is a race so rare and mythical that is likely a once in a lifetime occurrence for most characters. Having a huge presence of them detracts from established lore and starts to crack suspension of disbelief.

The problem isn't just about bird elves though. It's a part of the wider issue of immersion, which this thread is about.

If the server wants to shift towards becoming a wacky zoo for the most rare and exotic races across the world, then it is what it is.

That doesn't mean it's not immersion breaking however. This isn't Planescape. Rare and exotic should stay that way, and not be the norm.

[Joe46]

I'd say there's been a few good steps to "Scale down" the power of PCs.

First off, you must consider that at least in the lore, Guldorand, Cordor, Brog, Myon, Andunor... Combined they must have a population mounting higher than 100k (this isn't too unfeasable even, consider that tiny Malta irl has 500k inhabitants.) Of those, mayhaps 700 are our HIGH level PCs (I mean high level, active. Not roll characters).

Then, in all the planes the enemies have been also toned down. As our latest example, pit fiends and balors have been substituted by Malebraches in Baator and Hezrou in the Abyss. By all accounts, the only Pit Fiend mobs you will encounter are the Bosses at Zamishar's woe

Finally... checking the CR of most creatures we fight, is it that hard to concieve a party of level 17 adventurers being able to take down a dragon? At least that's how I justify it to myself :p

[legionetrangere]

Too many giants, tieflings and winged people around everywhere, specially Cordor. Feels pretty weird imho

Well, people earn epic sacrifice awards and are not afraid to use'em!

Granted, the Hub is certainly a more appropriate home for monstrous characters to dwell in, but this doesn't mean that Cordor can't be home to non basic races.

What you should consider when "condemning" the high fantasy note of Arelith is that it is actually the post-time of troubles FR setting.

This is the world of Elminster and of Drizzt do Urden, and you are not lost in some backwater nowhereville in the Silver Marches where people earn 3g a year and are commoners. Instead you are placed on a major landmass in the middle of the Trackless Sea, where adventurers go to make a fortune.

When you enter a persistent world you become part of the setting it belongs to.

It might be be just my particular experience, but for me Andunor feels less wacky than Cordor these days (I'm almost sure Cordor guard already has a bunch of half giants and some Avariels at their disposal lol).

Kythanas post translated exactly my feelings - specially about everyone having a smartphone with instant communication and a total disregard for logistics because everyone can just teleport anywhere.

[Eyeliner]

I do think the problem is a little overstated... I still see far far more "normal" characters than not. I am also not sure why something like a half-giant has to be a problem... I mean the NPC giant population of Arelith is enormous, those aren't rare creatures and I'd imagine an occasional half would exist, though I don't want to think of the implications of how that happens.

Also, I think if we're going to have these races, it benefits to have more than a tiny number of them around. One half-giant is a freak whose RP is trying to fit in to human society. Five half-giants is a faction with culture and moots and events. The RP, potentially, is better because they can feed off and support each other instead of being the designated oddball who might occasionally mention how things are different back home.

We're also seeing it a little more difficult to obtain rewards as you can't epic sacrifice at will any more. There is a waiting period. You could still potentially get 4 majors or greaters a year and I don't know what to say about that. I don't think you can have these tantalizing races exist and expect people to abstain from playing them. I don't typically see them abused, so players are (in general) handling them responsibly. "Immersion" is an extremely arbitrary term that means different things to different people, and to say an abundance of winged characters breaks your immersion or isn't true to the setting is only an opinion... This is a fantasy world based on nothing in reality, so what the baseline is supposed to be and what is "ridiculous" or not is going to be based purely on someone's opinion and taste. FR source material is pretty out there though.

That said I do think the award system needs an overhaul and I don't think it needs to so heavily favor exotic races. I mean, we could have stat templates than let ordinary races have a little more oomph in one area so they're an exceptionally strong dwarf or whatever. Yeah it's power creep but maybe that's preferable to taking genasi for that oomph and barely RPing genasi.

[Kythana]

"Immersion" is an extremely arbitrary term that means different things to different people, and to say an abundance of winged characters breaks your immersion or isn't true to the setting is only an opinion... This is a fantasy world based on nothing in reality, so what the baseline is supposed to be and what is "ridiculous" or not is going to be based purely on someone's opinion and taste. FR source material is pretty out there though.

I see this argument and a lot, and I really, really dislike it.

D&D and Forgotten Realms was not based on "nothing in reality". It's heavily inspired by history, myths, as well as many fantasy novels, most notably Tolkien's work. Arelith is just an extension on that, and has many other inspirations as well.

However, Just because a setting is outlandish and different, or is a fantasy or sci-fi genre doesn't mean that anything goes.

Immersion is about the ability to believe what you're reading/seeing. It's about being able to suspend your disbelief about the story you're participating in; To view it from the perspective of the characters that live in it.

For example, if you were reading a story about a historical medieval settlement, and suddenly a character started firing a machine gun, that would likely break your immersion. Why? Because the setting broke its own rules. And every setting, no matter how odd or outlandish, has rules that it establishes.

These rules can be broken. Sometimes it's interesting to do so, because it allows for a splash of the unique into the story. A way to insert something different.

However, the problem on Arelith currently is that the rules of the setting are not being respected. And when players are trying to immerse into the world, this completely ruins that suspension of disbelief.

The disconnect comes from the fact that I as a player, knows certain outlandish and exotic races are supposed to be rare. The reality is that they are not.

When a setting is no longer internally consistent with its own logic, you can no longer in good faith engage with it as presented.

[Eyeliner]

That still speaks to your view of what the baseline here is "supposed" to be, which is an opinion. It's a fair opinion and I respect it but I don't think I agree, and I am not even convinced Tolkien or RL history is the basis-- there are multiple direct references to Discworld around for example. I think that plus FR is more like what the influence is and that's medium to high fantasy.

I mean look I can see reigning in award races a bit, which they are doing, but to do away with epic levels and odd creatures and make this more of a "realistic" setting would require tearing down everything and starting over. The tone of this server as a place where you can get to level 30 and play a dragonshaping kobold or drow matron was set almost 20 years ago so none of this is a new direction. I don't love every aspect of it, but I accept the things I cannot change (or that they ain't changing for my sake).

[Marsi]

"Immersion" is an extremely arbitrary term that means different things to different people, and to say an abundance of winged characters breaks your immersion or isn't true to the setting is only an opinion... This is a fantasy world based on nothing in reality, so what the baseline is supposed to be and what is "ridiculous" or not is going to be based purely on someone's opinion and taste. FR source material is pretty out there though.

I see this argument and a lot, and I really, really dislike it.

D&D and Forgotten Realms was not based on "nothing in reality". It's heavily inspired by history, myths, as well as many fantasy novels, most notably Tolkien's work. Arelith is just an extension on that, and has many other inspirations as well.

However, Just because a setting is outlandish and different, or is a fantasy or sci-fi genre doesn't mean that anything goes.

Immersion is about the ability to believe what you're reading/seeing. It's about being able to suspend your disbelief about the story you're participating in; To view it from the perspective of the characters that live in it.

For example, if you were reading a story about a historical medieval settlement, and suddenly a character started firing a machine gun, that would likely break your immersion. Why? Because the setting broke its own rules. And every setting, no matter how odd or outlandish, has rules that it establishes.

These rules can be broken. Sometimes it's interesting to do so, because it allows for a splash of the unique into the story. A way to insert something different.

However, the problem on Arelith currently is that the rules of the setting are not being respected. And when players are trying to immerse into the world, this completely ruins that suspension of disbelief.

The disconnect comes from the fact that I as a player, knows certain outlandish and exotic races are supposed to be rare. The reality is that they are not.

When a setting is no longer internally consistent with its own logic, you can no longer in good faith engage with it as presented.

Arelith has never really had much in the way of "rules of the setting" to respect, on an aesthetic level. It's always been about playing whatever concept you want and interpreting the shared reality however you please, so long as you justify and execute that concept well. No two characters have the same reference point. It's like those suburban streets where every house is totally distinct from the next, a Tudor-style nextdoor to a Tuscan villa.

You can play a high-concept planeswalker, or a "low fantasy" peasant who shrieks at the sight of magic -- neither concept is invalid, and neither concept is necessarily truer in the eyes of the setting.

D&D is kitchen sink fantasy. Sure, a machine gun would be out of place, but we all see in it what we want -- its a Rorshach test. You claim there's a lineage to Tolkien, but in reality Jack Vance's Dying Earth is far more influential. Nothing about D&D is truly Tolkienesque or mythopoetic besides isolated pastiche, that's just your aesthetic preference. It's also mine, but I recognise the setting doesn't need to confirm this preference, and that if I choose to play a Tolkienesque character that's my personal reference point in a sea of other no less valid ones.

Personally, I prefer that reward races were rare. I prefer not to see max-height giants or winged characters walking around casually. I just ignore characters whom I don't feel "do the work" when it comes to treating the world with appropriate awe. That's my choice, one I can't ask the server to enforce. That's always been the Arelith way: we each select what we allow to inhabit our character-world gestalt.

[Kythana]

Arelith has never really had much in the way of "rules of the setting" to respect, on an aesthetic level. It's always been about playing whatever concept you want and interpreting the shared reality however you please, so long as you justify and execute that concept well.

On one hand, yes. On the other hand, no.

It's pretty flexible on how you want to RP your character, sure. However, there are plenty of concepts that are just straight up disallowed.

Vampires and Rakhasha require applications, which likely filter certain concepts that the DM team doesn't want to see. (As well as limit the amount.)

Good aligned monsters require an application for 30 RPR or less, and can't live on the surface settlements. And to add onto that, quoted from the definite Drow policy, outright limiting certain ways that a Drow can act.

Surface/Underdark relations need not necessarily be hostile, however trust should not be implicit or even assumed.
Drow should not be kind, gentle, forgiving, or sympathetic. The Underdark is a dangerous place where survival is extremely difficult, and those Drow who put others before themselves rarely reach adulthood.

Warlocks are not allowed to be forced into a pact.

Any good aligned animator/fiend summoner is going to get talked to.

A quote from Irongon specifically about half-giants.

Irongron - Sun 24 Jul, 2022: And a reminder - don't RP as a full giant. I was cautious about adding these races not for power, but frequency and RP, I don't want to be required gate or remove the reward so soon.

So, yes. There are absolutely rules about the setting. It just so happens that they're all codified into actual rules regarding the server itself.

There is precedent to lock award races behind application just to keep the numbers low. And there is also precedent to prevent certain RP aesthetic choices, specifically because of the setting.