Guide: Dweomercraft from Scratch

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Skibbles
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Guide: Dweomercraft from Scratch

Post by Skibbles » Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:29 pm

Introduction

1/1 2/2/2/2/1
1/1 2/2/2
6,6,6,2,6,6,6,1,2,2

Do those numbers mean anything to you or am I trying some ASCII version of a matrix meme?

This short guide will explain, with pictures, creating magic items from scratch: namely the iconic mash of numbers above.

I'm not going over Runes. There's a great guide already on Runes posted by Edens_Fall, written by an unknown author, and that's found here: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=34783.

Lately I've been making items for people but this nebulous mechanic leaves me very often getting tells like, 'Sure, yeah, do that thing you're showing me in the trade window because I have no idea what can be made or how to make it.'

Nothing here is a big secret, it isn't FOIG, and nobody is hiding it. Just like many of Arelith's older systems it's simply buried under years of updates, awesome new mechanics, fancy EE polish, and people like me who do this as second nature muscle memory without realizing that it's incredibly obscure and maybe should be explained to a rapidly growing playerbase.

Dweomercrafting has been around for… actually I don't know. Longer than me and probably many others. Over 7 years at least. I just spent five years doing Wizard Stuff, have been mashing these buttons thousands of times, and I still readily admit I plain don't know how some of it works even now.

What we're going to talk about now, however, has been around forever. I know at least this one thing well; despite the litany of changes surrounding Dweomercrafting, the traditional 1/1 2/2/2/2/1 and 1/1 2/2/2 has never lost its style, so it's time that someone just writes it down to benefit new and old alike.

So let's do it.

Context

What are the numbers above?

1/1 2/2/2/2/1 translates to Ability/Ability Skill/Skill/Skill/Skill/Minor Skill.

1/1 2/2/2 translates the same, but for rings because rings are more difficult to make.

6,6,6,2,6,6,6,1,2,2 is how you add +2 Spellcraft to an item.

Further Examples wrote:

There is a small list of exceptions to this recipe. Weapons, some armors (full plate in particular), some shields (use wood or untyped shields for best results in the basin), boots (mostly because +1 AC on boots throws the recipe off), and a few other things I'm probably forgetting.

Examples below.

Doing It

Quick Summary wrote:

One of the most important aspects of Dweomercraft, quite simply, is that the value of the item determines the chance of success. This is why it gets more difficult as more powers are added, why full plate is more difficult for example (higher base value), and why we always put the cheap skill bonuses on the item first.

Before we get into this you must have Tier 3 Dweomercrafting. You can read the variety of ways to get this tier here. Got it? Good.

Today we're going to make a 1/1 2/2/2/2/1 glove, also known as a 'Soft 5% item.'

Skills are the easiest/cheapest to add to an item so always begin there.

Once you've got your skills added then throw on your first primary ability score. It should look like this:

Image

Now unless you're willing to dump your entire bank account into this trivial item then STOP. It's time to talk about God saves and Hard/Soft 5%.

God Saves

Our new glove is barely holding together with all that magic on it, and there's only a 5% chance we could ever succeed in adding that final ability score.

Oh, but what's this?

Image

There is only one way that I know of to tell whether an item is a Hard or Soft 5%, and it isn't my epic photoshop skills in the picture, but it is in whether or not you will lose experience on failure. Yes - that's it. That's the only way.

This is what a hard 5% looks like for contrast.

Image

Our glove won't lose us experience if we fail the next ability score.

So what does this all mean?

It means that we can 'God Save' the final attempt. This makes this item cost us closer to twenty/thirty thousand gold versus maybe ten times that amount if we're unaware of how this system actually works.

Put plainly: It's called a 'Soft' 5% because if you factor in the God Save mechanic it is not really 5%.

We don't know the actual chance of a God Save, but after years of doing this it feels close to 50/50 or 60/40 if you make the attempt at 99-100% piety.

Recent updates made it so the percentile chance of your God Save is equal to your current piety score; IE 100% Piety is 100% God Save chance.

Keep in mind there is a cool down on the save so you can't just churn out items. I don't know how long it is but it never has seemed to be a problem by just doing it now and then between much more important things like RP or adventuring.

So go pray to Asmodeus or Tyr (or both) and come back when you're good and Divinity'd up.

Done? Okay. Put the glove in the basin, carefully navigate to your final ability store, and press OK. Schwing!

Image

Pictured: Jubilation.

Here is our finished glove. I think it cost me a little under twenty thousand gold to make for this guide (and for someone IG), but I got a tad lucky this time around.

Image

That's all there is to it. If you're patient and know what you're doing - you can have a full inventory of equipment in a few days for much less gold than you think.

I mentioned rings earlier, but they have the same exact concept only with three skills instead of five. Here's a ring:

Image

Hard 5% Items

'Hard 5% Item' is an item similar to what we just made. Most commonly it is one of these items plus an additional Universal Save +1. These are made slightly different from the start - instead of start with ability scores after your skills (which you can do all +2s instead of a single +1) you plug in the Uni Save first, and then the two abilities after.

These are very difficult, expensive, and take a lot of time. Here's an example of a 5% belt. Note that the positive resistance is a defensive essence added after the item was finished and doesn't factor into the making of any item if you use them once it is done.

Image

Final Words

Thanks to the Rune system, lootables, and many new craftable items this isn't the ultimate must-have gold standard of magic items and it's much less 'mandatory' than it was five years ago.

I wouldn't say this is the only way to have a strong character, or make a good item, and I'm sure people are whipping up some pretty clever trinkets, but I've been using stuff like this recipe for ages and getting along just fine and I'm sure you can too.

Enjoy!

Last edited by Skibbles on Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:46 am, edited 4 times in total.
Irongron wrote: [...] the super-secret Arelith development roadmap is a post apocalyptic wasteland populated with competing tribes of hand-bombard wielding techno-giants, and strewn with the bones of long dead elves.

So we're very much on track.

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Re: Guide: Dweomercraft from Scratch

Post by Edens_Fall » Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:35 pm

Wow this is great! Thank you Skibbles!

For some reason I'm thinking not every deity allows for God saves though? Only the ones that deal with knowledge and magic? I could be wrong though.

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Re: Guide: Dweomercraft from Scratch

Post by ltlukoziuz » Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:23 pm

All allow all godsaves. Though it took ages for me to get dweomer one on Kossuth


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Re: Guide: Dweomercraft from Scratch

Post by Killer on the drive home » Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:50 pm

Edens_Fall wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:35 pm
Wow this is great! Thank you Skibbles!

For some reason I'm thinking not every deity allows for God saves though? Only the ones that deal with knowledge and magic? I could be wrong though.
I thought it was only magic. I'm surprised to realize Jergal offers them as well. The wiki says on the Deity page that all gods offer the same benefits.

Love the informative post and item names, Skibbles.
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Re: Guide: Dweomercraft from Scratch

Post by Skibbles » Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:37 pm

You're welcome!

It used to be the case that certain gods only did certain saves, yep, but that was changed a bit ago so that the boons are the same. So you aren't crazy that was true until 'recently.'

The aspect is only about piety generation now, and my boy Jergal loves when I send peeps to the afterlife (war and destruction) or craft stuff/write notes (knowledge/invention).

If I had magic aspect I'd get piety for casting, etc.

But yes it used to be magic aspect only that did a dweomercrafting save I think.
Irongron wrote: [...] the super-secret Arelith development roadmap is a post apocalyptic wasteland populated with competing tribes of hand-bombard wielding techno-giants, and strewn with the bones of long dead elves.

So we're very much on track.

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Re: Guide: Dweomercraft from Scratch

Post by God_In_Action » Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:01 pm

Some more information which may be useful:

The percentage chance of an enchantment and of the total amount of enchantments depends on the gold value of the item that you're trying to create.

The next bit is based on what was the case a few years ago, when it was still called enchantment, but I don't believe it has changed. The threshold for a hard 5% chance is 10000gp without any dweomer tier, or 11000gp with 1 tier, 12000gp with 2 tiers or 13500gp with 3 tiers.

If the quality that you're trying to add will bring it even a single gold coin in value over those thresholds then you won't get the chance of a god save. You can work out gold value in advance by using the NWN module editor if you know The order that you add the enchantments changes the overall chance of success and cost. Always add the easiest enchantments first and the hardest last. This is simply due to how the system calculates the gold values and chances. Adding stat abilities before skills will give you a slightly worse chance in passing the last enchantment you want or even push it over the hard 5% threshold.

Similarly, only ever add things like energy resistance essences for the same reason that they will increase the gold value of the item.

Finally, use the lowest value base item you can find. This means NPC shop bought items. Loot matrix rings, amulets or other items always have a higher gols value and therefore be more expensive to enchantment and be less likely to succeed.

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Re: Guide: Dweomercraft from Scratch

Post by CHBanger » Thu Aug 11, 2022 10:09 pm

Great guide, it's been a tremendous help in planning out items.

But, has anyone noticed any differences when dweomer crafting within the last week or so?

A few weeks ago, maybe a month, on my 15th Cleric, with craft wand, Forge domain, the character is shown to have dweomer level 2.
I successfully craft a ring of 1/1/2/2/2 (stat/skill) when I did that ring the last stat boost showed as a soft 5% chance and I ended up tripping the god save.

I ended up doing a restat/relevel of the character now a 4 fighter / 12 cleric (still with craft wand, Forge domain, still level 2 dweomer craft).
I'm trying to craft the same ring as above, using the same basic 10gp ring from the vendor, but now when I get to the last stat point add it is now a hard 5%

I know I wouldn't have risked a hard 5% on the last ring, I don't have tons of money to throw at the basin considering I'm only level 16. So, has anything changed? Or is there a difference between a 15th level caster versus a 12th level caster?

This is using the basins in Skal

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Re: Guide: Dweomercraft from Scratch

Post by God_In_Action » Sat Aug 13, 2022 12:44 am

CHBanger wrote:
Thu Aug 11, 2022 10:09 pm
Great guide, it's been a tremendous help in planning out items.

But, has anyone noticed any differences when dweomer crafting within the last week or so?

A few weeks ago, maybe a month, on my 15th Cleric, with craft wand, Forge domain, the character is shown to have dweomer level 2.
I successfully craft a ring of 1/1/2/2/2 (stat/skill) when I did that ring the last stat boost showed as a soft 5% chance and I ended up tripping the god save.

I ended up doing a restat/relevel of the character now a 4 fighter / 12 cleric (still with craft wand, Forge domain, still level 2 dweomer craft).
I'm trying to craft the same ring as above, using the same basic 10gp ring from the vendor, but now when I get to the last stat point add it is now a hard 5%

I know I wouldn't have risked a hard 5% on the last ring, I don't have tons of money to throw at the basin considering I'm only level 16. So, has anything changed? Or is there a difference between a 15th level caster versus a 12th level caster?

This is using the basins in Skal
Did you add the enchanmtents in the order of skill/skill/skill/stat/stat? Adding the strongest ones first and weakest last may weirdly change the eventual % chance and cost of the final enchantment.

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Re: Guide: Dweomercraft from Scratch

Post by CHBanger » Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:28 pm

God_In_Action wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 12:44 am
Did you add the enchanmtents in the order of skill/skill/skill/stat/stat? Adding the strongest ones first and weakest last may weirdly change the eventual % chance and cost of the final enchantment.
Yes, did skills first. The first stat boost ends up at like a 65% success then the last one is a hard 5%.

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Re: Guide: Dweomercraft from Scratch

Post by Xerah » Sun Aug 14, 2022 1:45 pm

You need T3 for it not to be a hard 5
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Re: Guide: Dweomercraft from Scratch

Post by Skibbles » Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:38 am

Since this is being used I updated it to reflect current (piety as percentile) god save mechanics and also changed the hard 5% description to be more accurate to what's possible. When or if I ever get back to playing I'll try to remember to take a picture of a hard 5% item as an example.
Irongron wrote: [...] the super-secret Arelith development roadmap is a post apocalyptic wasteland populated with competing tribes of hand-bombard wielding techno-giants, and strewn with the bones of long dead elves.

So we're very much on track.

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Re: Guide: Dweomercraft from Scratch

Post by Ellisaria » Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:11 am

CHBanger wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:28 pm
God_In_Action wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 12:44 am
Did you add the enchanmtents in the order of skill/skill/skill/stat/stat? Adding the strongest ones first and weakest last may weirdly change the eventual % chance and cost of the final enchantment.
Yes, did skills first. The first stat boost ends up at like a 65% success then the last one is a hard 5%.
I also experienced this. I have T3, Mundane.
I went Skill 2/2/2/2/1 and then Ability 1/1. Same percentages for the abilities as indicated by CHBanger with a hard 5% on the second.

I used a plain ring that I crafted myself. Value: 15g.

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Re: Guide: Dweomercraft from Scratch

Post by Xerah » Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:19 am

You can only do +2 skill 3x then +1 stat 2x on rings (and weapons/armour are different as well)

Edit; Sorry said this wrong.
Katernin Bersk, Chancellor of Divination; Kerri Amblecrown, Paladin of Milil; Xull'kacha Auvry'rae, Redcap Fey-pacted; Sadia yr Thuravya el Bhirax, Priestess of Umberlee; Lissa Whitehorn, Archmage of Artifice

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Re: Guide: Dweomercraft from Scratch

Post by Ellisaria » Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:34 am

Xerah wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:19 am
You can only do +2 skill 3x then +1 stat 2x on non rings (and non weapons/armour)
...if only I had not tried to do this when I should've been in bed! :D I see the explanation now - appreciated.

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Re: Guide: Dweomercraft from Scratch

Post by Xerah » Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:57 am

Ellisaria wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:34 am
Xerah wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:19 am
You can only do +2 skill 3x then +1 stat 2x on non rings (and non weapons/armour)
...if only I had not tried to do this when I should've been in bed! :D I see the explanation now - appreciated.

Sorry, I explained that wrong but I think you got what I meant. Rings, weapons, and armour are not the same as the rest of the equipment.
Katernin Bersk, Chancellor of Divination; Kerri Amblecrown, Paladin of Milil; Xull'kacha Auvry'rae, Redcap Fey-pacted; Sadia yr Thuravya el Bhirax, Priestess of Umberlee; Lissa Whitehorn, Archmage of Artifice

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Re: Guide: Dweomercraft from Scratch

Post by Skibbles » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:21 am

Did a quick update since I was helping new players with this recently.

Changes:

[*] Fixed a typo super bugging me for a while.

[*] Added a blurb about why the recipe is how it is and the few exceptions to it (such as full plate, etc)

[*] Finally got around to adding a picture of a hard 5% example item. Pictures are fun.

[*] Added the new tags because why not?

[*] Some various formatting for more betterish readability.

Irongron wrote: [...] the super-secret Arelith development roadmap is a post apocalyptic wasteland populated with competing tribes of hand-bombard wielding techno-giants, and strewn with the bones of long dead elves.

So we're very much on track.

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