Rogue Suggestions

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Waldo52
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Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 7:09 pm

Rogue Suggestions

Post by Waldo52 » Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:48 am

I've played WAY too many rogues. The class is generally considered underpowered, and I understand that the dev team often disagrees about how to solve this problem. I'm offering some very conservative, realistic solutions that might help us out. Submitted for your approval, we probably need the following (based off about 1,500 hours of feedback)

More Rogue Feats

Rogues really have it hard with feats. With the recent changes, the most viable builds on this class net ONE extra feat, assuming they ditch grenades which are now considered optional. Grenades are of course a life support feature on this historically underpowered class, so there's basically no net gain on your typical 24/6 or 25/5 build.

In terms of rogue feats there are a LOT of must-haves. There are three feats involved in getting epic dodge, crippling strike is mandatory if you're not an archer, you'll absolutely require ESF: Discipline and Hide or MS in epics. While there are some really flavorful or useful new feats that allow us to do really cool things, your average rogue just can't afford them. Getting a +1 to a chosen weapon is valuable, a chance to trigger fear on a trap is valuable (and flavorful). But it's almost impossible to build something that covers its bases and still takes these cool goodies. I suggest that the rogue's progression should net another two feats by level 24.

Grenades

The grenadier concept is really cool in a fantasy setting. Technically rogues can fill the niche of the mad alchemist bomb lobber, but our fire/acid bombs don't do enough damage to warrant a viable build, and are incredibly expensive. Because Arelith added this whole bomb throwing aspect to the class, I recommend that serious damage dealing bombs have their costs lowered and their damage increased. This would also create a serious niche for taking 30 rogue levels if the damage and DCs scale fully.

Discipline Support

A lot of our iconic gear (Fine Elven Boots, Rogue Leathers, Displacer Beast Cloak, etc.) provide no discipline bonus. This is generally a problem for anything that isn't a strength build, but it disproportionately hurts rogues and roguish types because of our desperate need for niche skill items and dependence on several ability scores. When Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Discipline, Hide/MS and multiple random skills like sleight of hand, set trap, disable trap, spot, bluff, open lock are all priorities, it's virtually impossible to end up with a gear setup that works. We all know that the end game involves putting runes on 10-11 pieces of gear for +2 discipline. I recommend that rogues get discipline bonuses slapped on a lot of their gear pieces. This isn't just a balance issue, it's about being able to play the character you want to play.


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