More Patience Needed

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Bunnysmack
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More Patience Needed

Post by Bunnysmack » Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:42 pm

I continue to notice a trend toward players on the forums and discord having a very little patience with one another, and toward the staff in general. There's a few different ways this ends up playing out but most of them result in a growing sense of people thinking opposing viewpoints are fundamentally invalid.

As a disclaimer (because forum posts can OFTEN be misinterpreted), I am not at all saying the practice of forum debate should be removed. The exchange of ideas and a debate on the merits of those ideas is a good thing for the health of any community, instead, I'm arguing against the mindset of deciding that other people are somehow wrong+bad+invalid, and then ignoring any of their ideas as default-invalid. Here are two primary examples of that trend:

*"Casual Players" vs. "Power-Building Players"
-Both playstyles are valid, yet people from both camps tend to dismiss the concerns/opinions of the other. Arelith doesn't need to purely serve one playstyle.

*Faction Animosity
-More times than I can count, I've heard people say something akin to "Oh, so-and-so is from THAT faction!? Ugh, I'm not going to rp with them anymore, thanks for the warning." I'm really sick of seeing this, especially because the toxicity of the mindset is contagious.

People tend to get more and more combative about trying to force an Arelith that is the way they think it should be, but here's the thing: Arelith itself is not a battlefield, it's a playground. It's a playground we all have to learn how to share with one another. No matter how much our games of make believe might form roles where we are fighting one another, we also need to do our best to keep that animosity contained within the make-believe story, and not spill out into out of character interactions.

This impatience tends to extend toward the staff at times as well, when they institute rulings or development changes that go against what various groups might feel is "right" and "fair" (both words are subjective concepts, by the way; there is no such thing as objective fairness in the human condition, only varying degrees of fair that more and more of us can agree to as an appropriate standard). People tend to rail against the staff for doing "unfair" things, but have you listened to the competing interests of this community? For every three players in an argument, you are likely to hear four opinions. The staff are volunteers, enjoying a hobby of world building/management; there are a lot of competing concerns to address while performing that role, and yet they do their best to do so. If you have a disagreement with the staff, then make a feedback thread or file a report, but do so respectfully and as objectively as possible, and please don't hammer on your argument over and over again if you get an answer that doesn't match what you'd hoped to read.

Overall, I really love this community. I've made a lot of online friends through Arelith, and I hope to meet a lot more. It makes me sad when I see salt building in the community, but it is possible to mitigate a lot of that salt.

Gods I hope this thread has a positive effect and doesn't cause yet another text-based shouting match...
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Re: More Patience Needed

Post by Anomandaris » Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:43 pm

Well said and great to bring up as a reminder. I’ve been guilty of it myself and appreciate you promoting a healthy, positive discourse. At the end of the day we’re all here to have fun!

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Re: More Patience Needed

Post by garrbear758 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:01 pm

Well said, but this goes on both sides. I have definitely been less than kind either here or on the discord in the past, and the kindness and respect is a two way street. Just remember that everyone on staff is a player first, and we do this out of love for the server not malice. On the player side, I could definitely better recognize that most of the "salt" is due to passion about the server, and that is a good thing. I will try to better acknowledge that. While we may have different viewpoints on how things should be done, I think in the end we all want the same thing, and even if the debates get passionate, just remember there are people behind the screen who are probably wonderful, and they should never be personally attacked.
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Re: More Patience Needed

Post by Blossom » Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:46 pm

Considering the cesspools most game forums and Discord channels can be I think this place is a bastion of civility so credit should be given there.

Though whenever posting in a thread one should probably ask "is what I'm about to say really adding to the discussion or am I just trying to have the last word?" and similar questions. I'm certainly trying to train myself to say my piece and move along.

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Re: More Patience Needed

Post by Dachlatte » Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:19 pm

Inhale - Exhale - Repeat
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(see above)

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Re: More Patience Needed

Post by I will never sleep » Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:45 pm

Bunnysmack wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:42 pm
*Faction Animosity
-More times than I can count, I've heard people say something akin to "Oh, so-and-so is from THAT faction!? Ugh, I'm not going to rp with them anymore, thanks for the warning." I'm really sick of seeing this, especially because the toxicity of the mindset is contagious.
This is a serious problem. Especially when a lot of things are often just made up or extremely exaggerated due to OOC games of telephone. Especially in modern Arelith, with virtually every settlement and faction split up into their own circles of private discord and what-have-you chats, the OOC and the IC often times become virtually indiscernible.

I don't really know how to fix it, though. The onus is kind of on the players to understand that people are not a monolith.

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Re: More Patience Needed

Post by Dachlatte » Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:01 pm

Disable Discord Chats
Disable whatever SpliffSplaff
Enable -no tells
Get into the game
Inhale and exhale 3 times
Have fun
Turn off PC / console
Walk through the woods
Enjoy the beach
Say 'Hello to the Sun'
Inhale and exhale 3 times
Enjoy Life

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Re: More Patience Needed

Post by Ninjimmy » Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:51 am

I'd add Stealth/Disguise VS Spot as the other prime salt generator.

Stealth and Disguise PCs don't want to get rumbled and Spotters don't want to fail to spot, so any time there's a shift in the Meta or someone first dips their toe into espionage RP we get forum threads railing about the "imbalance" and the vitriol in these seems to keep sliding up.

I do feel like it's certain topics that drag the discourse down and it's usually ones that require someone winning or losing more than is seen as "fair", we can debate whether Gnomes or Kobolds are more based for pages without anyone losing their temper but as soon as game mechanics come into it knives are drawn (or axes in the case of stealth vs spot discussion)

Maybe we need to normalise losing more?
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Re: More Patience Needed

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:58 pm

If you just play the game, you'll find it to be a much better experience.

What is most alarming in current times is the implicit and explicit pressure to be a part of Discord communities to be relevant.
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Re: More Patience Needed

Post by Skibbles » Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:29 pm

I don't think I've noticed any trend that hasn't been pretty well established in NWN since release - Arelith or otherwise. My own origins (Tales of Taliesin of which it seems I'm the sole survivor) weren't on Arelith but there was no shortage of the same issues there - only the medium changed.

Most of us are allowed our bad days I think, and hope.

Though just text alone whether forums, AOL IM, Skype, or discord it can be really easy to misread someone's tone.

It can also be really easy to see toxicity in any chat room or from any online friend. There's people I know, who are good people, that immediately spew bile at so much as a mention of Arelith (they've since quit years ago).

It's a game that deeply touches all of us. It's why we love it. Ironically the inverse can also be true for the things we care about.
Irongron wrote: [...] the super-secret Arelith development roadmap is a post apocalyptic wasteland populated with competing tribes of hand-bombard wielding techno-giants, and strewn with the bones of long dead elves.

So we're very much on track.

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Re: More Patience Needed

Post by magistrasa » Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:54 pm

Seven Sons of Sin wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:58 pm
What is most alarming in current times is the implicit and explicit pressure to be a part of Discord communities to be relevant.
The prevalence and encouragement of OOC communication on the server I think has increased tremendously over the past few years, and I also find it extremely disheartening. I would love to just turn on -notells like I used to, but I remember there was a thread on the forums some time ago where the general consensus seemed to be that people assumed anyone with -notells on was probably a jerk and should be avoided just to be safe.

That said, it's not hard to find good company. I find amazing roleplayers, and positive influences, almost everywhere I go. Branching out and meeting new people, both in game and out, is always a humbling experience that teaches you to be more kind and more thoughtful. There are so many hidden corners of roleplay that different social circles can be entirely unaware of, and breaking through the barriers stacked up by faction and settlement and region and server can really help to expand your horizons.

I think the best way to combat toxicity in the community is to do your best to reach out to the strangers around you, and encourage the people within your social circle to explore more of what the server has to offer. Get new perspectives. Play new alignments, new classes, new races, with new people. Don't tell anyone you're doing it - just experience the game with a fresh new start, and see where your new path leads you. The things you experience will give you a new appreciation for the devs' hard work, and introduce you to new amazing people to befriend and make memories with.

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Re: More Patience Needed

Post by KT28 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:43 pm

Seven Sons of Sin wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:58 pm
What is most alarming in current times is the implicit and explicit pressure to be a part of Discord communities to be relevant.
magistrasa wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:54 pm
The prevalence and encouragement of OOC communication on the server I think has increased tremendously over the past few years, and I also find it extremely disheartening. I would love to just turn on -notells like I used to, but I remember there was a thread on the forums some time ago where the general consensus seemed to be that people assumed anyone with -notells on was probably a jerk and should be avoided just to be safe.
I want to offer support for both these statements. The increase in emphasis on OOC communication is probably the #1 thing that has hampered my enjoyment of the server in recent years (followed closely by the double-whammy of community-hyperfocus on PvP mechanics and shrinking build diversity following the UMD change, but that's another thread). I too used to regularly use -notells, not because I hate chatting OOCly on principle, or even because any one individual piece of OOC communication is unwelcome, but because when it happens chronically, unsolicitedly, unnecessarily, and across many different individuals when I'm trying to just focus on the game it starts to add up and just become too much for me, frankly. I understand that people play this game for many different reasons and for some people, chatting OOCly with people contributes a large portion of the satisfaction they derive from this game. But in my experience there seems to be very little regard in this community for people for whom this is not the case, like assuming that just because someone has -notells on they must be a jerk who hates you instead of someone who is employing acceptable OOC boundaries to ensure their own enjoyment of the game (and even to ensure they can give YOU their best selves in game too!).

I think this related to the original topic intimately. The culture of this server is very different than it was 10 years ago. Some things are better, but (disclaimer: opinion) a lot of things are worse and there's definitely more salt all around. The biggest change I can point at is the prevalence of Discord and mass OOC communication. Roleplaying is most enjoyable for me when I'm fully immersed in the game and able to assume best intent onto other players that they're also here to build a fun story with me, even when our characters are antagonistic. OOC communication is not necessary to do this; just a willingness to assume best intent on others and say "Yes, and...". I'm not against all OOC communication, not by any stretch (sometimes it is necessary), but the tendency for Discord to become an echo chamber of negativity and toxicity makes it a net negative for the server, in my opinion.

Maybe I'm just old-fashioned. Maybe this is just the direction that Arelith is going and I need to either conform or move on. I'm not one to usually speak up about these things, but this server has given me a lot of joy over the years and I'd like to think it will continue to be a community where there's a place for me.

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Re: More Patience Needed

Post by Ninjimmy » Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:00 pm

I mean... I like the OOC communication and I think it's fair to say everyone in this conversation is at least somewhat alright with it as a concept as it pertains to the game in question. Since that's kinda... what we're doing.
But when it overshadows any IC activity that's probably where we start developing problems.
Seven Sons of Sin wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:58 pm
If you just play the game, you'll find it to be a much better experience.

What is most alarming in current times is the implicit and explicit pressure to be a part of Discord communities to be relevant.
Granted I only use the Discord for dumb memes and helping new players but why do you say relevant? That feels like an odd word to use.
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Re: More Patience Needed

Post by Arigard » Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:12 pm

Something that has been bothering me for a while now linked to this thread has been how quick people are to think the worst of others, especially in a tribal setting. "Oh that player is this, or that". Often there are whole groups of people who have never even met certain people but already have an opinion of them formed because of second hand information they've been told without even giving them a chance themselves. I understand that people have had bad experiences from time to time, but on the whole I truly believe that players aren't going out of their way to game systems, or 'cheese' other people. When it happens it's very, very obvious (i.e someone combat logging to avoid consequences would be a good example). NWN is a buggy, old game. Transitions are horrific (I've been stuck in transition loops simply walking around Andunor before), summons can bash you around the battlefield etc etc.

There are definitely times when players use things to get ahead, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but needless to say, it's very disheartening to log into an environment, where it becomes obvious that every move you make is going to be scrutinized to the point you feel that people are actively looking for things to catch you out on when the dice don't roll in their favour, or the RP doesn't go the way it was expected. The knee jerk reaction to situations going outside of your control should not be "I'm going to find something to report" because I'm unhappy. Report if someone is actively, blatantly breaking the rules, not just because you want to find a reason to get your own back OOC for something that happened IG that rubbed you the wrong way.

Being more open minded, means less pettiness & stopping to see people on opposite sides of the RP agenda as 'the enemy' and this follows on from the above & leads back to the idea of having more patience in general. We shouldn't view ourselves as opposing players trying to 'one up each' other for kudos, or bragging rights. If someone does a great double cross, or plays a slippery character that plots and plans, they need to be able to do this with a separation between their IC persona and their OOC, so that they aren't backed into a corner where they get hounded. We have some amazing players on this server, but all too often I see IC pursuits stifled by OOC where people want to 'know', 'guarantee', or simply feel they have some authority to dictate how RP should go OOC and a lot of times this is done through pressure on discord and other exterior platforms. This pressure over time simply leads to stale game-play and people who are less and less willing to take risks and play their characters because they just can't be bothered with the OOC fallout. There is no ultimate goal in Arelith. There are no winners and there are no losers. There is just a good story that people can be part of, so let these stories play out dynamically and allow people to interpret events and react IC, even if that means you get thrown curve Pufferfish once in a while.

'Innocent till proven' guilty, rather than 'guilty until proven innocent' is something I try to stick to across the board. Thinking the best of people, not the worst. Giving them the benefit of the doubt. This makes it easier to understand that characters aren't players and if they do something underhand, or clever and screw you over IG, that doesn't make them a horrible person OOC. That simply makes them someone that can play their characters well and we should be open minded enough to be able to separate that and even zoom out and go "Hey man, that plot, or plan you did was amazing, completely caught me off guard, gj", even if they sit on opposite sides of the spectrum from you at that point in time.
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Re: More Patience Needed

Post by Xerah » Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:24 pm

I really don't think there has been that much change in the 3 years I've been here. There has been a big positive change when it comes to balance, but the OOC and such have always existed. And it has always existed in every NWN server I've been on since I started in 2004.

I think Discord is a hugely positive step forward, and this is despite myself being a large target of salt and slander (including a QAnon level theory that myself and Tormak (+ a few other cabal members) are secretly running Arelith behind the scenes because we're funnelling money to IG).

I have yet to see it forced on anyone. As a tool, it is a much better direct communication link when discussing Dev things which means some off-the-cuff comments don't get posted to the forums at the same rate. Everything does end up on the forums eventually (when it comes to actual changes), but just like people sign up to things like Twitter or Reddit for real-time info, discord is no different. You can get yourself wrapped up in the OOC even without discord and painting it as the boogieman is a bit disingenuous for something that has always been here.
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Re: More Patience Needed

Post by Bunnysmack » Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:40 pm

I in no way think that Arelith is a festering community or that discord or tells or forum interactions are inherently bad activities. I keep coming back to this server over and over again because I've had far more good experiences than bad, and in many ways this is a remarkably inclusive and friendly server compared to the vast majority of online gaming communities I've interacted with.

This thread is more a call for people being more considerate in the moments/interactions that do managed to get out of hand. I've also been guilty of some reactions that were less than generous to others when playing on Arelith in the past, and I'm not trying to claim that I'm completely above moments of weakness either. I'd actually say that it took reflection about my own mistakes in that regard to gain a more cool head with regards to the server. Still, though overall I think that Arelith is a fantastic community, I think there is room for improvement with regards to how we treat one another, especially when conflict RP or content disagreements arise.
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Re: More Patience Needed

Post by Dari » Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:30 pm

Dachlatte wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:01 pm
Disable Discord Chats
Disable whatever SpliffSplaff
Enable -no tells
Get into the game
Inhale and exhale 3 times
Have fun
Turn off PC / console
Walk through the woods
Enjoy the beach
Say 'Hello to the Sun'
Inhale and exhale 3 times
Enjoy Life
Along with that, I usually change my Username when playing a new character so people wouldn't know it's me when I log in / on portal / or if they remembered my nickname through tells.
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Re: More Patience Needed

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:14 am

Xerah wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:24 pm

I have yet to see it forced on anyone. As a tool, it is a much better direct communication link when discussing Dev things which means some off-the-cuff comments don't get posted to the forums at the same rate. Everything does end up on the forums eventually (when it comes to actual changes), but just like people sign up to things like Twitter or Reddit for real-time info, discord is no different. You can get yourself wrapped up in the OOC even without discord and painting it as the boogieman is a bit disingenuous for something that has always been here.
On my previous character, over a run of 9 months, I was probably asked, in some variation,

"hey, just ping me on discord"

or, "what's your discord?"

or, "are we going to coordinate over discord?"

or, "what's your discord? i have thoughts about this"

probably a solid 10 times. Maybe that's not a lot. The problem is not the ask in of itself. I always responded politely "nah! i just use tells or the forums.

However, this creates a few "feelings." And sure, you can throw my emotional response out with the bathwater, but -

1. it made me feel like I was missing out on something
2. it made me concerned with how I was presently myself OOCly by being an anti-Discord hermit (and does this thus affect other players perceptions of me, and in turn, of my roleplay)
3. it was, after the fourth or fifth, a source of implicit pressure

and lastly, 4., it really made me wonder what ARE people talking about. If people are being so forthright with me to hop on Discord, what are these conversations if I were to actually go "hey yeah here's my discord tag"

You know?

Sometimes when I was asked to communicate over Discord, I felt like I was being solicited. It broke "muh immersion", and honestly, made me anxious - because of all of the above.

Didn't feel hot. Still something I'm working with. But yeah, it's never about what the initiator says, its about what the recipient feels. (just like good roleplay)
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Re: More Patience Needed

Post by Hazard » Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:46 am

Seven Sons of Sin wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:14 am
Xerah wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:24 pm

I have yet to see it forced on anyone. As a tool, it is a much better direct communication link when discussing Dev things which means some off-the-cuff comments don't get posted to the forums at the same rate. Everything does end up on the forums eventually (when it comes to actual changes), but just like people sign up to things like Twitter or Reddit for real-time info, discord is no different. You can get yourself wrapped up in the OOC even without discord and painting it as the boogieman is a bit disingenuous for something that has always been here.
On my previous character, over a run of 9 months, I was probably asked, in some variation,

"hey, just ping me on discord"

or, "what's your discord?"

or, "are we going to coordinate over discord?"

or, "what's your discord? i have thoughts about this"

probably a solid 10 times. Maybe that's not a lot. The problem is not the ask in of itself. I always responded politely "nah! i just use tells or the forums.

However, this creates a few "feelings." And sure, you can throw my emotional response out with the bathwater, but -

1. it made me feel like I was missing out on something
2. it made me concerned with how I was presently myself OOCly by being an anti-Discord hermit (and does this thus affect other players perceptions of me, and in turn, of my roleplay)
3. it was, after the fourth or fifth, a source of implicit pressure

and lastly, 4., it really made me wonder what ARE people talking about. If people are being so forthright with me to hop on Discord, what are these conversations if I were to actually go "hey yeah here's my discord tag"

You know?

Sometimes when I was asked to communicate over Discord, I felt like I was being solicited. It broke "muh immersion", and honestly, made me anxious - because of all of the above.

Didn't feel hot. Still something I'm working with. But yeah, it's never about what the initiator says, its about what the recipient feels. (just like good roleplay)
I can relate so much to this.
I, too, only communicate OOCly through tells and the forum, and even then I try my best to limit that to what is necessary.
The way I see it, the less I exist as a person to other people, the more real and immersive the experience can be for myself and others.

Often I will even turn tells off.
I wish account names were just hidden from the game and portal too, so people couldn't tell which characters are mine.

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Re: More Patience Needed

Post by xanrael » Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:25 am

Discord is not something that's going to disappear in use, or only because it was replaced with something else similar. I put it in the category of "the only thing you have control over is you".

While I do use Discord I don't share my username with others in game. I have had plenty of times that someone asked for my Discord ID in-game and when I said I didn't use it for Arelith stuff I never had a hostile response from it, we'd still RP etc. Unless you're antagonizing someone I don't think most people are going to spend a lot of their time judging/thinking on a particular player's Discord use or lack thereof.

There are some people who are exceptions and might want to mandate their ideals on others but I'd rather limit my interactions with people with that thought process anyway.

On that note, if you do find yourself really disliking a player where you're spending a lot of time negatively thinking about them, ask yourself if it is worth it. Odds are it's unproductive and you're just hurting yourself. As someone else mentioned do something else to get your mind off of it and move on. My 2 cents on keeping fun > not fun.

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Re: More Patience Needed

Post by Borin Drakkmurl » Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:44 am

(Heads up, this is a 1:30 am, insomnia driven, rambling wall of text)

This is straying from the original topic, so before I keep on straying, I'll just say this, to keep it in line with the tittle of the thread:

More patience when dealing with other people is always a good thing. One will rarely go wrong with striving to be more patient, specially when it comes to playing pretend elves.

That having been said, I'ma jump on Seven's points about Discord.

Unsurprisingly, since we both kind of started on Arelith at around the same time, came up together, enjoy the same styles of roleplay and what we get out of the server, I agree with pretty much all of it.

More often than not, I've found that the noise to utility ratio of Discord leans a lot more heavily onto the noise side of it. Too much of it is static, and too little of it actually helped me achieve what I thought my experience of Arelith should be:

Log in, pretend to be a cave dwelling evil dwarf woman who kills dragons in shadowy abysses, and log out.

I don't need to look at memes. I don't need to hear what player x (whom I dont know) thinks of player y (whom I also dont know). I don't need to read useless bickering about how 2ab + 1ac - holy smite + 1 rogue dip is op and the devs are dumb for thinking it is. I don't need to be in a channel for a settlement, another for a faction, and yet another for a four person group, on top of the main Arelith one.

It is all noise.

Which kind of ties to the original post of this thread, and to what other people have already pointed out:

It's been many years since I've played a faction leader on Arelith, I think Discord wasn't even a thing back then, and already at that time the pressure to always be on, always be up to date, and available, and afraid of missing out on things while you were getting (very little) sleep, was enormous and far too stressful. I waisted way too many hours, too many brain cells, and too many happy moments, worrying about politics, tactics, plans, badge designs, scheming and trash talking pixelated elves. I can only imagine how all of this might've been magnified if, when not being in game, or as is the norm these days, at the same time that I was playing, I would've also been keeping an eye on two or three different chats. Holy hell.


Now.

Don't get me wrong, Discord can be a lot of fun, specially to connect with people you've befriended over the years. That's the one very good thing I liked about it. But then again, for me, most of those interactions were barely Arelith related. I was just chilling and chatting with cool people. And there's no denying how awesome that is.


I do think this, as well as number of other subjects that keep creeping up on the forums, is mostly a generational thing, and a natural evolution of the server as it follows the times. The needs and demands for interactions, in game and out of it, will forcefuly follow the times. Having gone from 55 max players to an average of 150 / 200 concurrent players at the same time, any given day, is on its own enough to ensure this.

To finish, this is not the same Arelith that I was playing 15 years ago, which is a good thing, even if I personally have struggled with this notion for the past few years. To the point where I ended up uninstalling the game a few days ago, after already a couple of failed attempts at giving it a final and more permanent goodbye. As much fun as it was to wander around, taking screenshots of all the new amazing content, I just could not shake the feeling that I could be using that time to do other stuff. And that I did not have the energy to contribute as much as I once did. Again, makes me wonder about the stress some folk might be putting themselves through, these days.

Here's some unrequested, perhaps useless, parting advice:

- Health first. Mental and physical.
- Arelith is amazing, but it can be too good at what it does best, providing escapism. Don't fall for it.
- Real life, as shitty and horrible as it can be, will always be more important than fantasy castles made of 0s and 1s.
- Real friends, online or in person, will never demand anything of you that will cause you stress and harm. Don't cave in.
- Arelith can be an amazing tool and source of inspiration for creativity. I've written tens of thousands of words because of it. It can also drain you and leave you dry for any other creative endeavour. Pace yourselves and prioritize your ideas.

- People have made lifelong friendships, and have even gotten married, because of this server. I think children were born because of it, children that might be playing it now. That is the true core of Arelith, its true nature, and the reason it has lasted this long.
Not the trolls, not the wannabe hackers, not the shitheads metagaming on whatever discord channel serves as their sewer nest, and certainly not anyone who thinks themselves entitled to anyone else's precious time and health.

Everyone should just hang onto, and focus, on the good things you have going here. It's the reason why people always come back, and why it has been so hard for me to finally let go of it.
Past characters: Daedin Angthalion; Lurg Norgar; Urebriwyn; Ubaldo Ferraz; Erodash Uzdshak; Borin; Belchior Heliodoro; Orestes Fontebela

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Skibbles
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Re: More Patience Needed

Post by Skibbles » Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:49 am

Before Discord it was Skype. Before Skype it was AIM/ICQ. Before those it was just more passive/aggressive or directly aggressive forum posts and in the first server I played in on release it mostly broke into groups of people who simply knew each other in real life. Salt, toxicity, and nastiness has been and will continue be alive and well for as long as people are capable of communicating.

I really don't think anything has changed or increased, and ultimately I think these issues are simply endemic both in gaming and humanity at large. It may sound cynical, but on the flip side these mediums are also how people connect, make friends, and engage in the better parts of life.

Some people can't even watch a sports game without getting into a fist fight with someone rooting for the other team, some sports feature fist fights right in the middle of it between its own players, but just because the former two things are happening doesn't mean that 90% of the rest of stadium isn't have a grand time.

That said there's one excellent tip here I see coming up a lot: just don't engage with it, and use new accounts with new characters. Great advice, but also it can be the double edged sword - you may be getting a great RP experience but you may also be missing out on just making friends in a gaming community you enjoy. It's probably the only way to effectively cater to your own desired experience.
Irongron wrote: [...] the super-secret Arelith development roadmap is a post apocalyptic wasteland populated with competing tribes of hand-bombard wielding techno-giants, and strewn with the bones of long dead elves.

So we're very much on track.

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D4wN
Posts: 655
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:46 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: More Patience Needed

Post by D4wN » Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:11 am

Platforms don't matter. This is not about what tools are available to be negative about one another, this is about treating each other with respect and dignity. As pointed out by the OP, we're all here to have fun. This is a game. We're all here for the same reason.

I fully agree with the OP about the toxicity towards others. Putting yourself on -notells or staying out of Discords shouldn't -have- to be necessary. It's so silly to get upset with people over the character they play or what their character does. The very definition of a RP game is that we're not our characters (Thank goodness for that). I don't go and assume someone is a bad person because they belong to a certain faction or they were once mean to my character.

This game isn't about winning. If you want to win, then this is not the game for you and there are plenty of other options out there. This game is about telling stories. It's about escaping the real world and being something or someone you're not in the real world. It's about making friends who are equally as passionate about this old game. It isn't a playform to criticise each other, it's a platform to support each other and make each other better. To collaborate. I think if we keep that in mind we can find a lot more patience for one another.

Currently playing:
Thomas Castemont - Active

Liv McDowall - Shelved
Theodor Helbrecht - Rolled
Emma Young - Rolled
Ember Joyleaf-Underfoot - Rolled


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A little fellow
Posts: 211
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Re: More Patience Needed

Post by A little fellow » Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:49 am

It's very rare that anyone will listen if someone from outside their playerbase suggests to them how they should be behaving IG, or OOC.

This is why it's so important that prominent players in their respective groups stop focusing on what other playerbases are doing, or saying, and focus on trying to set an example and create an environment for healthy co-operation amongst players they know, first. Because we all see people we enjoy the company of doing something against the spirit of the game from time to time .. it's not always an easy conversation, but you've 10x the chance of breaking through to them than you do someone you don't know.

I think in most cases there's only one way you should address problems you see with the behaviour of a player or group that you don't know, and that's by reporting them to the DMs (if rules have been broken)
Lovin' you is easy 'cause you're dutiful

Lexx
Posts: 232
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:52 pm

Re: More Patience Needed

Post by Lexx » Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:59 am

A little fellow wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:49 am
It's very rare that anyone will listen if someone from outside their playerbase suggests to them how they should be behaving IG, or OOC.

This is why it's so important that prominent players in their respective groups stop focusing on what other playerbases are doing, or saying, and focus on trying to set an example and create an environment for healthy co-operation amongst players they know, first. Because we all see people we enjoy the company of doing something against the spirit of the game from time to time .. it's not always an easy conversation, but you've 10x the chance of breaking through to them than you do someone you don't know.

I think in most cases there's only one way you should address problems you see with the behaviour of a player or group that you don't know, and that's by reporting them to the DMs (if rules have been broken)
I have to agree heavily with this. Focus on being the example you would like to be set and if problems arise you should report them otherwise.

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