Extremely Attractive, Low Charisma

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Wethrinea
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Re: Extremely Attractive, Low Charisma

Post by Wethrinea » Tue May 18, 2021 6:00 am

Unless you play a class with charisma as caster stat, or div might/shield, charisma is a dump stat. Just like dexterity and wisdom is for anyone who wear heavy armour and is not a cleric. Yet I rarely see 8 dexterity characters played as Bambi-on-ice with the reaction speed of a sedated gold fish. Nor all the 8 wis characters lining up to invest all their loot in obvious ponzi-schemes and time-share apartments in Evermeet.

But that does not irk people for some reason. Perhaps because gear, spells and potions let us raise those stats above the magical 10 barrier. But that goes for charisma too. My barbarian can buff his dex to 20, and often does so, but his character sheet still say his dex is low. The low cha character might be chugging eagle splendor potions and wearing royal attire and blue-suede shoes for a constant 20 charisma for all you know.

Since I rarely play cha casters and divine dips, most of my characters have 8 or 9 charisma, because I like to have characters who are good at what they are supposed to do. Some of them are overtly rude or direct, while others are tight-lipped and/or painstakingly formal. Some of them are loners, while others are quite gregarious.

The stats on your character sheet may be a good starting point, but I find it odd to not also take into account gear, level progression, skills, and most important, your characters history and experiences since arriving on Arelith.
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Re: Extremely Attractive, Low Charisma

Post by Apothys » Tue May 18, 2021 6:58 am

When I see low Charisma characters, I am not impressed by skimpy outfits or flowery descriptions of these supposed legendary beauties. I consider them likely unwashed and them simply having an outgoing personality. There's plenty of charisma gear out there that can be crafted to make this stat better for social situations.

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Re: Extremely Attractive, Low Charisma

Post by Duchess Says » Tue May 18, 2021 7:53 am

Wethrinea wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 6:00 am
Unless you play a class with charisma as caster stat, or div might/shield, charisma is a dump stat. Just like dexterity and wisdom is for anyone who wear heavy armour and is not a cleric. Yet I rarely see 8 dexterity characters played as Bambi-on-ice with the reaction speed of a sedated gold fish. Nor all the 8 wis characters lining up to invest all their loot in obvious ponzi-schemes and time-share apartments in Evermeet.
Because 8 is just a little below average. That might mean you're not a great dancer, can't draw and have sloppy penmanship but it doesn't have to make you a helpless klutz. If 8 is as bad as you say then what's 1-7?

A big part of the problem here is people are making an "8" score out to be far worse than it really is. But 10-11 is straight up "average" as in straight in the middle of what you'd see if sampling a population of adult humans. 8-9 means that's certainly not your strong suit but it doesn't mean you're atrocious at that ability (or that you're particularly unpleasant, to bring it back to charisma, you might just be introverted and have trouble talking to strangers). A "-1" ability modifier isn't supposed to mean you're hopelessly flawed any more than "+1" means you're a demigod.

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Re: Extremely Attractive, Low Charisma

Post by Xarge VI » Tue May 18, 2021 9:46 am

Well. The ability descriptions on Neverwinter Nights character creation state that if you have lower than 9 intelligence your character is unable to speak properly.

Judging by that I'd say lower than 9 charisma is likewise something that character really has to struggle with.

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Re: Extremely Attractive, Low Charisma

Post by Wethrinea » Tue May 18, 2021 10:56 am

Duchess Says wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 7:53 am
Because 8 is just a little below average. That might mean you're not a great dancer, can't draw and have sloppy penmanship but it doesn't have to make you a helpless klutz. If 8 is as bad as you say then what's 1-7?

A big part of the problem here is people are making an "8" score out to be far worse than it really is. But 10-11 is straight up "average" as in straight in the middle of what you'd see if sampling a population of adult humans. 8-9 means that's certainly not your strong suit but it doesn't mean you're atrocious at that ability (or that you're particularly unpleasant, to bring it back to charisma, you might just be introverted and have trouble talking to strangers). A "-1" ability modifier isn't supposed to mean you're hopelessly flawed any more than "+1" means you're a demigod.
I exaggerated for dramatic effect, of course. But the point stands that we tend to see 8 charisma as much more debilitating than 8 dex or 8 wis. Unless we also expect those characters to RP being clumsy and gullible, I do not see why 8 charisma should have -much- more bearing than the corresponding positive modifier that comes with 12.

Not to mention that chugging an eagle potion or wearing a nice suit will mechanically bring you above 10. But your description will still say "Charisma: Low". Hence why I do not think we should pay very much attention to it to begin with.
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Re: Extremely Attractive, Low Charisma

Post by msheeler » Tue May 18, 2021 5:46 pm

I've been called a tart. Am I doing 'low charisma woman' right? :D

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Re: Extremely Attractive, Low Charisma

Post by The GrumpyCat » Tue May 18, 2021 8:04 pm

Wethrinea wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 10:56 am
Duchess Says wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 7:53 am
Because 8 is just a little below average. That might mean you're not a great dancer, can't draw and have sloppy penmanship but it doesn't have to make you a helpless klutz. If 8 is as bad as you say then what's 1-7?

A big part of the problem here is people are making an "8" score out to be far worse than it really is. But 10-11 is straight up "average" as in straight in the middle of what you'd see if sampling a population of adult humans. 8-9 means that's certainly not your strong suit but it doesn't mean you're atrocious at that ability (or that you're particularly unpleasant, to bring it back to charisma, you might just be introverted and have trouble talking to strangers). A "-1" ability modifier isn't supposed to mean you're hopelessly flawed any more than "+1" means you're a demigod.
I exaggerated for dramatic effect, of course. But the point stands that we tend to see 8 charisma as much more debilitating than 8 dex or 8 wis. Unless we also expect those characters to RP being clumsy and gullible, I do not see why 8 charisma should have -much- more bearing than the corresponding positive modifier that comes with 12.

Not to mention that chugging an eagle potion or wearing a nice suit will mechanically bring you above 10. But your description will still say "Charisma: Low". Hence why I do not think we should pay very much attention to it to begin with.
I think the reason why this is... (and I'm not arguing it should neccesarly be this way, just why I think people are much more strict about it) is that unlike the physical stats, charisma has very little effect on a character bar what your rp it with.

If I decide to dump strength I have to suffer from a low carry weight, and maybe lower attacks - dependent on class.

If I dump dex then I suffer from lower AC

If I dump Con - lower hp

If I dump Int I get less skill points...

Dumping wisdom and charisma... (and correct me if I'm wrong here mechanics was never my strong point) doesn't seem to have as much of a big, obvious effect on character mechanicaly as the physical stats... or even inteligence really. There's genuinly very little reason to up either of these skills unless your taking a character who's class depends on them. I guess people feel that you don't always have to roleplay the effects of low con or whatever, because you're already suffering the malaise of it.

Now Wisdom is a wierd beast because it's... very subjective. More so than charisma... and it's not always obvious. Certianly it doesn't really show up on *looks* and you can't... always tell from first impressions how 'wise' a pc is when you talk to them. Sometimes you can (and it's hillarious. I ADORE wisdom as a dump stat) but not always.

Charisma however does show up on the sheet, and it is (like it or not!) linked at least tangentally with physical good looks. I think people who are more keen to roleplay their sheet, to make a character less around power builds and more around rp - can feel cheated if a stat that's mostly represented by roleplay is... over represented.

If I go 'Ok I want to make a wizard. But I want him to be kinda good looking - or at least average, so even though isn't optimal, I'll have his charisma at 12.' - I nurf my character just a little to fulfil the ability I have for my pc to look good.

so it's understandble when poeple of that mind get irritated when they see a someone with a chrisma of 6 being described as 'The most beauitful woman in the world!!!!!'

(EDIT: To clarify just my own perosnal stance - I agree charisma can be rped in many ways. I've no issue with charisma 8 being considered 'average' or even 'very slightly good looking' so long as it's lost is shown elsewhere. I only really get irritated when extremes - like the above charisma 6 example - occur.)
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Re: Extremely Attractive, Low Charisma

Post by Wethrinea » Tue May 18, 2021 8:26 pm

Dont get me wrong, I'd never present an 8 charisma character as a Miss or Mister Arelith candidate, and I do think people should RP their stats.

But the examine sheet only show your base stats. It does not care if you have bought 12 points of charisma buffs to make up for what nature denied you. Or if your 8 cha character has overcome her lack of confidence through years of leadership or stomping down hordes of demons in between first and second breakfest.

A lot of builds dump str or dex too, but make up the difference in gear. So the 8 dex cleric will be at full AC in his fullplate with a single potion of feline inspiration.

My point is really that people should be reasonable with their descriptions. And give people the benefit of doubt when examening them.
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Re: Extremely Attractive, Low Charisma

Post by Fava Beans » Tue May 18, 2021 9:52 pm

So I play 2 characters actively, one with 6 charisma, and one with 40. I have seen/heard so many different arguments on how charisma should be interpreted so im just not going to do that, rather simply explain how i approach specifically their charisma.

My character who has 6 charisma is not unattractive for it (nor attractive) but rather as a pure reflection on their social skills. they dont quip or joke, they are very literal sometimes, and when they are not literal their meaning can be hard to understand. they generally keep to themselves like a hermit. but they do 'enjoy' to interact with others, they are just terrible at it.

My 40 charisma character on the other hand is a more interesting subject. I interpret their charisma on the 'strength' of their personality, their ability to influence others with their words/actions. This does not by any means make them pleasant to be around, often invoking sstrong reactions of disgust or hate as much as joy or inspiration. I use -mimic to conceal their charisma as low and still get treated as though they are attractive, and i dont mind that, the nature of the character has them changing their appearance all the time.

the physical side of charisma i treat as a mental stat aswell, in that it is a reflection on things like their need to keep a pleasant appearance, how organized they are about superfluous things like their clothing and living space. i do not see charisma in any way having to do with the natural appearance one is born with. My 40 cha character is plain and flat as a board, but uses makeup and a 'b---- im gorgeous' world view.

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Re: Extremely Attractive, Low Charisma

Post by LovelyLightningWitch » Wed May 19, 2021 5:45 am

The GrumpyCat wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 8:04 pm
Wethrinea wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 10:56 am
Duchess Says wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 7:53 am
Because 8 is just a little below average. That might mean you're not a great dancer, can't draw and have sloppy penmanship but it doesn't have to make you a helpless klutz. If 8 is as bad as you say then what's 1-7?

A big part of the problem here is people are making an "8" score out to be far worse than it really is. But 10-11 is straight up "average" as in straight in the middle of what you'd see if sampling a population of adult humans. 8-9 means that's certainly not your strong suit but it doesn't mean you're atrocious at that ability (or that you're particularly unpleasant, to bring it back to charisma, you might just be introverted and have trouble talking to strangers). A "-1" ability modifier isn't supposed to mean you're hopelessly flawed any more than "+1" means you're a demigod.
I exaggerated for dramatic effect, of course. But the point stands that we tend to see 8 charisma as much more debilitating than 8 dex or 8 wis. Unless we also expect those characters to RP being clumsy and gullible, I do not see why 8 charisma should have -much- more bearing than the corresponding positive modifier that comes with 12.

Not to mention that chugging an eagle potion or wearing a nice suit will mechanically bring you above 10. But your description will still say "Charisma: Low". Hence why I do not think we should pay very much attention to it to begin with.
I think the reason why this is... (and I'm not arguing it should neccesarly be this way, just why I think people are much more strict about it) is that unlike the physical stats, charisma has very little effect on a character bar what your rp it with.

If I decide to dump strength I have to suffer from a low carry weight, and maybe lower attacks - dependent on class.

If I dump dex then I suffer from lower AC

If I dump Con - lower hp

If I dump Int I get less skill points...

Dumping wisdom and charisma... (and correct me if I'm wrong here mechanics was never my strong point) doesn't seem to have as much of a big, obvious effect on character mechanicaly as the physical stats... or even inteligence really. There's genuinly very little reason to up either of these skills unless your taking a character who's class depends on them. I guess people feel that you don't always have to roleplay the effects of low con or whatever, because you're already suffering the malaise of it.

Now Wisdom is a wierd beast because it's... very subjective. More so than charisma... and it's not always obvious. Certianly it doesn't really show up on *looks* and you can't... always tell from first impressions how 'wise' a pc is when you talk to them. Sometimes you can (and it's hillarious. I ADORE wisdom as a dump stat) but not always.

Charisma however does show up on the sheet, and it is (like it or not!) linked at least tangentally with physical good looks. I think people who are more keen to roleplay their sheet, to make a character less around power builds and more around rp - can feel cheated if a stat that's mostly represented by roleplay is... over represented.

If I go 'Ok I want to make a wizard. But I want him to be kinda good looking - or at least average, so even though isn't optimal, I'll have his charisma at 12.' - I nurf my character just a little to fulfil the ability I have for my pc to look good.

so it's understandble when poeple of that mind get irritated when they see a someone with a chrisma of 6 being described as 'The most beauitful woman in the world!!!!!'

(EDIT: To clarify just my own perosnal stance - I agree charisma can be rped in many ways. I've no issue with charisma 8 being considered 'average' or even 'very slightly good looking' so long as it's lost is shown elsewhere. I only really get irritated when extremes - like the above charisma 6 example - occur.)
One thing i did notice in the thread is that to some people (I may have misread), 12 charisma is considered low. And does read as "Average" on the right click examine.


So there is a chance you play a charismatic foreign noble with classes that do not benefit from charisma and get 12, but people see "Average" and judge you silently for it.

Not sure if it happens, but I can see it as a possibility, especially with how often playing level 30 adventurers skews' people's perceptions of what is average, low and common.


As an aside, personally i prefer to see charisma as more of a sense of identity. Someone with high cha has a clear idea of who they are and are capable of imposing that on the world (extreme being charisma based casters whose force of will alters reality). Someone with low cha might not have a clear idea of who they are, have little in way of ego-based convictions. (extreme being high wis low cha monks who "lose themselves to the teachings")

For instance, i would consider a character who is very zealous and driven and may come across as crass and oppositional to be high charisma. After all, Turning clerics and paladins have high charisma (well dunno on arelith but in general at least) and they are very zealous! So zealous that more apathethic and neutral people are turned off or even detest them.

There *is* some conflicts with this interpretation, as will saves do stem from wisdom rather than charisma. However, "likeability" has issues too (high cha blackguard of bane/paladin of torm, likeable in the same sentence?), and looks are techbically right out (Paelyrion devils are a good example. Or any high ranking devil that is not an erinyes)

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Re: Extremely Attractive, Low Charisma

Post by TheFox » Wed May 19, 2021 9:56 am

Here's the way I think about it.

Charisma more or less measures one's attractiveness.

You can be very beautiful, and then open your mouth - and the stuff that comes out of it can make you completely unlikable. In large part, a person's appearance is an accident of birth, but a person's bearing is something that they don't acquire automatically. You can have preferences when it comes to how someone looks, but when someone's got confidence it tends to translate across most cultures.
Last post wrote:As an aside, personally i prefer to see charisma as more of a sense of identity. Someone with high cha has a clear idea of who they are and are capable of imposing that on the world (extreme being charisma based casters whose force of will alters reality). Someone with low cha might not have a clear idea of who they are, have little in way of ego-based convictions. (extreme being high wis low cha monks who "lose themselves to the teachings")
So someone might be very pretty, but have some seriously annoying habits or might have an inflated view of themselves. Like if anyone's ever been bullied by cheerleaders. And then sometimes you run into people who are really physical fit AND really supportive and helpful and cool. But that doesn't really depend on physical attractiveness, that more depends on what type of person you are and how likable you are.

So I always felt that's what charisma was supposed to encompass. Yes, if you're extremely physical deformed you probably have low charisma, but just as much of that probably comes from you being self-conscious and degenerating your own self-worth as a direct result of that. It's not necessarily an indicator of low charisma to be ugly, nor an indicator of high charisma to be beautiful.

At least that's how I think about it.

Late Edit: Personally, I'm not sure why charisma is listed as a physical stat, at all. I personally think it's more of a mental stat.
Last edited by TheFox on Wed May 19, 2021 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Extremely Attractive, Low Charisma

Post by Zan » Wed May 19, 2021 10:11 am

Been reading the entire thread, and there are many views I can appreciate in here.

My own, sadly is far more cynical; which is I don't actually look at the stat block for any indication of the characters traits such as attractiveness.

Given how much of a focus there has been in recent years on mechanics, the rise of Spellmonks, Ranger-monks, Hex/BG/PM. I look at the state block and think they are xyz class combination, because there are innumerable threads about how to tweak, refine, and optimize Spell DC, AC, AB, etc to the Nth degree.

I instead react to how the other player has described and RP their character, and the stat block has become this largely divorced construct that is all about mechanics, and not about an accurate reflection of the Charismatic, witty, Rogue who charms the pants off of every barmaid he meets cause he has 16 charisma, and 16 intelligence; purely because (and I might be wrong) I can not think of any "meta" builds which Rogues invest heavily in Charisma, when they aren't Quarter-breaking multi-classed bards as well.
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Re: Extremely Attractive, Low Charisma

Post by Tyrantos » Wed May 19, 2021 1:42 pm

This thread has inspired me to make my Hobgoblin unnaturally beautiful.

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Re: Extremely Attractive, Low Charisma

Post by Babylon System is the Vampire » Wed May 19, 2021 3:48 pm

I hate this conversation, because NWN made the mistake of equating charisma with natural beauty leading to a major misunderstanding of what charisma is. Have you ever seen a guy who is average at best with a super model quality woman? It's not because she was cool with his low charisma, but rather because he has a high charisma that makes up for his lack of looks. Charisma spawns from self confidence, and if you think you are great others will too. The opposite is also true, if you think you suck others will too.


NOUN
compelling attractiveness or charm that can inspire devotion in others.
"she enchanted guests with her charisma"
synonyms:
charm · presence · aura · personality · force of personality · [more]

So, yeah, charisma is strength of personality. Can looks affect the way other superficial people look at you? Absolutely, and perhaps a low wisdom character might think a total hottie that is otherwise a drip is the most charismatic thing on the planet. I'm sure the women who play here have seen this sort of thing happen in the real world all the time, dudes ready to hand over everything they have to please someone pretty. But that really has nothing to do with a persons charisma and everything to do with how pathetic people who only see looks can be.

So do yourself a favor, and stop taking the word of a bunch of guys who deserve all the credit in the world for creating a game that lasted 20+ years but are definite candidates to be gaga over a hottie, and read the actual definition :)

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Re: Extremely Attractive, Low Charisma

Post by Borin Drakkmurl » Wed May 19, 2021 7:45 pm

Babylon System is the Vampire wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 3:48 pm
I hate this conversation, because NWN made the mistake of equating charisma with natural beauty leading to a major misunderstanding of what charisma is. Have you ever seen a guy who is average at best with a super model quality woman? It's not because she was cool with his low charisma, but rather because he has a high charisma that makes up for his lack of looks. Charisma spawns from self confidence, and if you think you are great others will too. The opposite is also true, if you think you suck others will too.


NOUN
compelling attractiveness or charm that can inspire devotion in others.
"she enchanted guests with her charisma"
synonyms:
charm · presence · aura · personality · force of personality · [more]

So, yeah, charisma is strength of personality. Can looks affect the way other superficial people look at you? Absolutely, and perhaps a low wisdom character might think a total hottie that is otherwise a drip is the most charismatic thing on the planet. I'm sure the women who play here have seen this sort of thing happen in the real world all the time, dudes ready to hand over everything they have to please someone pretty. But that really has nothing to do with a persons charisma and everything to do with how pathetic people who only see looks can be.

So do yourself a favor, and stop taking the word of a bunch of guys who deserve all the credit in the world for creating a game that lasted 20+ years but are definite candidates to be gaga over a hottie, and read the actual definition :)
I found this very interesting.

If physicality alone would be the defining factor of how atractive someone is, then Strength, Dexterity and Costitution should be the ones dictating what a person looks like to others, rather than mental aspects such as wis, cha and int.

If a character has very low or average dex and str, but high charisma, just how exactly did they get their ripped abs?
Last edited by Borin Drakkmurl on Wed May 19, 2021 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Extremely Attractive, Low Charisma

Post by Curve » Wed May 19, 2021 7:56 pm

starving themselves while doing steroids like everyone else

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Re: Extremely Attractive, Low Charisma

Post by The GrumpyCat » Wed May 19, 2021 10:24 pm

So like, this is now getting into super duper personal head-cannon stuff - and I invite anyone and everyone to please completely ignore this because it's literally a thought for my own personal amust ment but!

Charisma interacts with physical stats with how good looking (or not) You are.

Charisma interacts with inteligence with how socially knowledgable you are (You might be ugly as dung, or meek as a mouse - but you know what fork to use at a banquet)

Charisma interacts with wisdom in how forceful you are, how firm you are in your self actualization/beliefs.

Again - that's just very much personal head-cannon. I've probably broken this idea myself numerous times -but I like it vaugly as a concept.
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Re: Extremely Attractive, Low Charisma

Post by Beard Master Flex » Wed May 19, 2021 10:35 pm

Also as far as I can tell soft bonuses do not affect your *Examine* Attributes.

So an 8 attribute fully buffed to 20 is still going to read as below average - which I think is a bummer.

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Re: Extremely Attractive, Low Charisma

Post by xanrael » Wed May 19, 2021 10:39 pm

It doesn't personally bother me for charisma score vs looks, but I don't find any of it particularly helpful for RP.

I'd rather read "this person's face is covered in mud and warts, a scar running from their left ear to their chin" than "this person is ugly" or "this person's dress and hair is well-kept, a golden hummingbird pin holding the hair in place" than "this person is pretty". They're not quite synonymous but the former gives me a better way to visualize, a hint of their habits/personality, and potentially a hook to spark a bit of RP during a lull in conversation. The latter is just an "okay sure whatever" sort of thing for me to read in the description regardless if it matches their charisma score or not.

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Re: Extremely Attractive, Low Charisma

Post by LIAR LIAR » Thu May 20, 2021 4:17 am

You know, there is a reason they are called "the mental stats" and "the physical stats." Yes, I know in even PnP charisma mentions physical attractiveness. At the end of a literal list of what charisma may measure. It's also not really your (anyone's) right to look at a character and decide what is being roleplayed is not being roleplayed. You're on a "roleplay server." The relevance of mechanics should extend as far as it benefits your enjoyment of your character. Yes, this section is just for the people deciding they get to look at what's written on the screen isn't what's there despite server rules (WYSIWYG.)

No 8 WIS character roleplays being a deep well of insight, and half the monks I meet couldn't educate a cleric of Illmater on why kindness is a good thing. Incidentally, if you just...play the game and not worry about that kind of thing, you have a better time on the server.

There's a point where if you pull a stunt for a 6 stat like I've done in the past, it better be apart of your character. And I doubt I've seen a single genasi on the server who lacks for a 6 stat. And as far as I've seen, the ones with a charisma neg are about as smooth as a bag of jagged rocks.

Keep in mind, illiteracy is gotten rid of with 2 skill points. Having a low intelligence doesn't necessarily make you incapable of language either. Oh, but why am I even talking about low int when there will never be a character with low int on Arelith. And yet strangely enough, perhaps because Arelith has always encouraged freedom of roleplay concept as a base element of the server's modus operandi, people roleplay total morons despite having 14 int. Shall we start coming down on people for daring to build int for the mechanical benefits of getting to have skill points and not roleplay it?

Oh, let's deal with all the 26 charisma meek sorcerers who's force of personality is lacking while we're at it.

And execute all the lithe, skinny armed weapon masters out there who don't look like the Rock/John Cena/Shaquille O'Neal/insert media strong man.

And now...let's really talk about the problem on this server...

I've seen clumsy dex characters. Because people like to roleplay fun ideas that don't necessarily conform to their character sheet, yet still draw inspiration from it. Because the twisting of a concept is very fun in roleplay and is generally enjoyed by the people who get to experience it.

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Re: Extremely Attractive, Low Charisma

Post by Skibbles » Thu May 20, 2021 4:58 am

Beard Master Flex wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 10:35 pm
Also as far as I can tell soft bonuses do not affect your *Examine* Attributes.

So an 8 attribute fully buffed to 20 is still going to read as below average - which I think is a bummer.
I've tested this before and it certainly doesn't. It's really easy for any caster, especially a transmutation focus, to get high teens to 20s in almost every stat but the examine doesn't change.

Add on that anyone with a bluff can -mimic to falsify their examine stats, and it quickly becomes a weird superfluous thing that doesn't seem to reflect what the reality is.

I'm not sure when it was added into the game but I'd bet it's part of why people may be getting CHA confused as a physical ability when it's listed among them. I kind of wish it was removed.
Irongron wrote: [...] the super-secret Arelith development roadmap is a post apocalyptic wasteland populated with competing tribes of hand-bombard wielding techno-giants, and strewn with the bones of long dead elves.

So we're very much on track.

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innerbloom
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Re: Extremely Attractive, Low Charisma

Post by innerbloom » Thu May 20, 2021 5:04 am

My personal opinion... and adding to the echo chamber:

Stats in general, whether we're talking about charisma, or dexterity, may manifest in a variety of ways.
I find far more enjoyment embracing character concepts as they come -- but that's me. I adore collaboration.

I may have a soft spot, but I do find that many of those 'quirky concepts' become some of the most compelling, if you find the opportunity to get past the first initial 'Examine.'

At the end of the day, we're playing a game -- I feel players should feel empowered to utilize their creativity (within the guidelines specifically laid out by the server)... *and* other players are fully within their right to shape their own characters' perspective, as they see fit.
Main: Nevve; lost in reverie.
Alt: Ford; taking a swim.
Rolled: Blythe; raising Banites.

Inactive IG for the time being.

Lexx
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Re: Extremely Attractive, Low Charisma

Post by Lexx » Thu May 20, 2021 9:43 am

Charisma isn't necessarily physical looks and assuming so is a bit of a common mistake people have been making in D and D for decades.

You can have a slovenly, unfit person who just happens to have raw personality and convincing way about them that I'd totally class as high charisma. And vice versa.

Sabamonster
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Re: Extremely Attractive, Low Charisma

Post by Sabamonster » Fri May 21, 2021 8:46 pm

Charisma has absolutely nothing to do with the physical attractiveness of an individual. Charisma is the ability to exert one's will through the force of personality. There are shining examples throughout history of individuals who were capable of moving entire masses into action (or conversely, inaction) simply because they had the ability to appeal to people in a way that others could not. Adolph Hitler for example (As disgusting as the man was) had entire nations defending a notion that any rational person would immediately recognize as insanity. This wasn't because he was 'handsome' or because his stellar good-looks provided some type of aura that people couldn't resist. He was incredibly charismatic. He could manipulate a conversation, and even peoples beliefs, and appeared sensible even when what he was proposing was outright lunacy.

On the flip side, there are countless 'objectively' attractive people who have the personality of a door-knob. Regardless of how good-looking someone is, if they can't speak to people in a way that they'll respond to then their chances of exerting their will is next to nothing. I'm sure we can all agree that we've met people we found particularly attractive and after meeting them realized that being stuck in a conversation with them for more than ten minutes would be the equivalent of spiritual torture.

These are obviously just a few examples and charisma comes in a myriad of forms but the point remains.

Can attractiveness 'contribute' to charisma? Absolutely. That beings said, it would be akin to comparing intelligence to the ability to read. There is far more involved and it is not mutually exclusive/inclusive.

Chosen Son
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Re: Extremely Attractive, Low Charisma

Post by Chosen Son » Fri May 21, 2021 10:21 pm

I wish it was modified stat that was shown on examine. You could have +12 cha on your pc specifically worn for social events, making your modified cha 20, but all anyone sees is cha 8.

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