What is with all the meta on warlocks right now?

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Talexis
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What is with all the meta on warlocks right now?

Post by Talexis » Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:42 pm

So there seems to be a lot of player characters that all of a sudden have knowledge of warlocks and ways to tell who they are and knowledge of their pacts. There is even a message on some boards offering lessons about warlocks and how to spot them. How do so many know so much about Warlocks when this change is new, these pacts are new, and there is a lot of new. Can't people just let this flow naturally in game?

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Re: What is with all the meta on warlocks right now?

Post by The Rambling Midget » Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:49 pm

Some are excited about the RP opportunities and are trying to get in on the action, others are excited to have a new target to go after. Nothing said on the forums will ever change their behavior in game.
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Re: What is with all the meta on warlocks right now?

Post by Echohawk » Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:16 pm

Doesn't help when folks go around posting about omens and obviously meta stuff on all the in game boards, which I personally think is kinda freakin lame but. If the DMs don't take it down I guess it's just A O K.

Needless to say they're still doing meta junk with the disguises too, which should always be reported when rules are broken.

It's tiring to say the least. But we ourselves can't do anything without reporting it.
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Re: What is with all the meta on warlocks right now?

Post by Spriggan Bride » Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:22 pm

Talexis wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:42 pm
How do so many know so much about Warlocks when this change is new, these pacts are new, and there is a lot of new. Can't people just let this flow naturally in game?
I'm not endorsing any metagaminess and I'm 100% on the side of letting things flow and giving warlocks room to breathe instead of shutting them down at level 3 but one question, are these pacts "new" IG? Like are star and fathomless pacts some brand new development in the world or have they always been around? Because if it's the latter I could see some epic arcane tower scholarly types having at least some prior knowledge of their nature.

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Re: What is with all the meta on warlocks right now?

Post by kinginyellow » Wed Sep 08, 2021 12:09 am

This post is the reason why I just didn't make a surface warlock once the changes dropped. If you're going to get chased down into the underdark anyway, why not just start there and not get memed on by Faezress?

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Re: What is with all the meta on warlocks right now?

Post by Archnon » Wed Sep 08, 2021 12:40 am

What is with all the warlocks right now?
There, I fixed it for you! :P

But in all seriousness, this will always be a problem. Hexblades got targeted before this. Some new villain and any good character wants to go fight. And with an update like this, everyone is exploring a really complex class so there is a lot of fodder out there.

Some suggestions
1.) They put a spellcraft DC on the laser beam. If someone calls you out on it and gives your grief, screenshot and report. DM's can always check to see if they passed the check. If they did, it's legit. If they didn't, then the DM can have a conversation about metagaming information.
2.) If they call you for infinicasting spells, well, that just ain't right. Screen and report. There are lots of magical things in the world that could lead to infinicasting a spell (just not so many in game).
3.) Cover your eyes, like serioussly, get a helmet.
4.) Meet them halfway and embrace it. See where the RP leads

I think the last one is a good option!

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Re: What is with all the meta on warlocks right now?

Post by Marsi » Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:17 am

I think those who publicly disseminate obscure roleplay mechanics are super lame. I would report it personally. Whenever Arelith introduces some kind of mystical lore with unique mechanics (ie. the Astrolabe) there is a part of the server who feel it is their duty to reduce it into some lame college 101 textbook. This kind of player is not wrong in wanting their character to obtain and spread secret knowledge, but it shouldn't be done like that.

All this said, I've never had much sympathy for careless warlocks being outed. The whole point of the class is being a pariah. It's one of the few aspects of Arelith edgelordism where there are associated consequences. And when that stops being true we get widescale DM-led warlock open season.

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Re: What is with all the meta on warlocks right now?

Post by Killer on the drive home » Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:35 am

Marsi wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:17 am
I think those who publicly disseminate obscure roleplay mechanics are super lame. I would report it personally.
This.

DMs probably wouldn't take it as a rule break, however. Pretty disappointing how many people just magically decide their character has invested years of study into field x and y because Arelith Updates.
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Re: What is with all the meta on warlocks right now?

Post by Flower Power » Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:57 am

I mostly just thought it was really funny that people were saying they knew the names of the five newborn Elder Evils the IG day after the event started, despite the fact that they'd literally just been born a day ago and had never interacted with the Realms before. But that's mostly just me.

Anyways, the answer is just: wiki-fu is strong - both in terms of things being drawn from the actual wiki or just meta-knowledge of Arelith mechanics. Nothing to really be done about it besides smile and nod and decide which crowds you want to focus on RPing with - or reporting egregious-seeming violations to the DMs and letting them sort it out.
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Re: What is with all the meta on warlocks right now?

Post by ZeroPointEnergy » Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:05 am

Echohawk wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:16 pm
Doesn't help when folks go around posting about omens and obviously meta stuff on all the in game boards, which I personally think is kinda freakin lame but. If the DMs don't take it down I guess it's just A O K.

Needless to say they're still doing meta junk with the disguises too, which should always be reported when rules are broken.

It's tiring to say the least. But we ourselves can't do anything without reporting it.
Yeah, I noticed that stuff happened day of the update. I guess people just ran with it or it was some DM event.

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Re: What is with all the meta on warlocks right now?

Post by Exordius » Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:00 am

I mostly just thought it was really funny that people were saying they knew the names of the five newborn Elder Evils the IG day after the event started
They are not new born, the lore makes clear they have existed for eons and have destroyed many worlds during their travel through space. Its not known by many granted but the information can be found if one researched it enough IG or had a high lore skill.

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Re: What is with all the meta on warlocks right now?

Post by Ork » Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:28 am

Wiki-quoters are by far my least favorite people.

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Re: What is with all the meta on warlocks right now?

Post by Killer on the drive home » Wed Sep 08, 2021 5:40 am

Exordius wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:00 am
I mostly just thought it was really funny that people were saying they knew the names of the five newborn Elder Evils the IG day after the event started
They are not new born, the lore makes clear they have existed for eons and have destroyed many worlds during their travel through space. Its not known by many granted but the information can be found if one researched it enough IG or had a high lore skill.
WOW, it really sounds like literally no one has heard of it before now and no one has lived to tell the tale! :o
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Re: What is with all the meta on warlocks right now?

Post by AstralUniverse » Wed Sep 08, 2021 5:50 am

Marsi wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:17 am
I think those who publicly disseminate obscure roleplay mechanics are super lame. I would report it personally. Whenever Arelith introduces some kind of mystical lore with unique mechanics (ie. the Astrolabe) there is a part of the server who feel it is their duty to reduce it into some lame college 101 textbook. This kind of player is not wrong in wanting their character to obtain and spread secret knowledge, but it shouldn't be done like that.

All this said, I've never had much sympathy for careless warlocks being outed. The whole point of the class is being a pariah. It's one of the few aspects of Arelith edgelordism where there are associated consequences. And when that stops being true we get widescale DM-led warlock open season.
This is an excellent post, although *some* warlocks have been outed by meta-gamy means after they faked genuine sorcerers pretty convincingly in character. Such cases should be reported but it's really hard to prove meta-gaming there. I do agree with the rest of the post. Very well said.
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Re: What is with all the meta on warlocks right now?

Post by ltlukoziuz » Wed Sep 08, 2021 5:57 am

Echohawk wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:16 pm
Doesn't help when folks go around posting about omens and obviously meta stuff on all the in game boards, which I personally think is kinda freakin lame but. If the DMs don't take it down I guess it's just A O K.
Well, I will play devil's advocate to this. Personal experience: Go to bed because timezones, wake up 8 hours later. During that time, I sleep through the beginning of it all. Wake up, get into game a bit after that, and almost everyone in game asked me: "Have you seen it? What do you think on it?" Well how am I supposed to do that when nobody explains it? It took me 4 RL days just to get something more workable as news on what had transpired and who had witnessed it all. But it was really disheartening in the interrim to be in position of "hey, rp with us on this but no, we wont speak on this".

Also, what's wrong with quipping on infinite spells? Should I not be suspicious if someone I tagged along (or they did) end up doing 30+ hold monsters (or any other spell) ?


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Re: What is with all the meta on warlocks right now?

Post by fading » Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:02 am

ltlukoziuz wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 5:57 am
Echohawk wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:16 pm
Doesn't help when folks go around posting about omens and obviously meta stuff on all the in game boards, which I personally think is kinda freakin lame but. If the DMs don't take it down I guess it's just A O K.
Also, what's wrong with quipping on infinite spells? Should I not be suspicious if someone I tagged along (or they did) end up doing 30+ hold monsters (or any other spell) ?
Being suspicious is okay, but knowing that such things as True Flames exist, I can't imagine your first thought would be warlock and not some type of powerful sorcerer.

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Re: What is with all the meta on warlocks right now?

Post by Flower Power » Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:46 am

Just err on the side of caution and declare a pogrom against all arcanists. Problem solved.
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Re: What is with all the meta on warlocks right now?

Post by Spriggan Bride » Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:48 am

I look at it like if a warlock is being careless with blasting, having evil summons out, letting the eyes glow etc they get what they get. But if one is being careful not to use those abilities and sticks to hold spells etc, obviously they're being cautious while still trying to make the character reasonably playable.

Just from a "we all have to play this game together" standpoint I wish the general attitude was give them a little breathing room until they do something to reveal themselves. Counting how many hold persons they cast between rests isn't a good story for anyone and that's the kind of thing that makes a concept feel futile to play. Every active warlock on the surface is going to get busted sooner or later and you don't have to overreach to speed that up prematurely.

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Re: What is with all the meta on warlocks right now?

Post by kinginyellow » Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:18 am

Spriggan Bride wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:48 am
Just from a "we all have to play this game together" standpoint I wish the general attitude was give them a little breathing room until they do something to reveal themselves. Counting how many hold persons they cast between rests isn't a good story for anyone and that's the kind of thing that makes a concept feel futile to play. Every active warlock on the surface is going to get busted sooner or later and you don't have to overreach to speed that up prematurely.
There is no truer statement than this. I have experienced this too many times, from both the receiving end as well as a passive observer.

But to be real with you, "careless warlock" is a catchall that doesn't correctly describe the number of things that can go wrong while playing one in the surface.

I have almost been caught previously simply because a high level was mining in the areas I'm meant to be grinding in ( and I'm solo grinding so I can use my class features without raising suspicion).

I've seen warlocks get caught because they just happened to be stalked by a higher level who was prowling about in stealth looking for ne'er do wells in low level areas like the sewers. (They didn't get PVP'd, they were watched, then reported on, and they'd have no way of knowing they were being watched.)

And yeah then there's the cheese cases where people get accused because they are casting too many spells. The most egregious example I've seen with old lock was someone asking to have flare cast on them in character, because OOC they know that's an eldritch blast.

There's too much that can go wrong, and if as a level 5 you get banished from Cordor, you actually just got banished from every surface settlement. Good luck grinding to a higher level, good luck getting to the Underdark (Where Faezress will completely demolish you.)

If I'm bringing these examples up, its as an appeal to remember that this is a game that we play together. And while you may want to catch the bad guy when you're playing the good guys, and the bad guys aren't entitled to a get out of jail free card, I'd be a lot happier if a middle ground could be reached between these two stances, especially when the character is lower level.

I have solved this problem by simply playing in the underdark when I make warlocks from now on. I haven't had my fun spoiled at low levels in the past because I use every dirty trick in the book to not get caught, but my blood pressure has improved since I have made this decision. There is nothing more stressful than playing a surface warlock or a surface pale master, and I really don't recommend the experience overall.

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Re: What is with all the meta on warlocks right now?

Post by Red_Wharf » Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:27 am

Something that could help the early warlock or necromancer gameplay in the surface is opening up Sencliff as a general start point, not just for pirates, although still restricted to neutral or evil characters. You know the jobs offered by Eamon to clear the dungeons in Sencliff? Remove those and re-add them back as general writs alongside new ones which can only be accessed through a new writ giver NPC in the island. By the time a new character goes through all the content, they'll probably already be visiting the Crow's Nest for harder writs. If someone is concerned about non-pirates starting out in Sencliff, then they don't know the island very well. Just visit the Bhaalspire or the tunnels beneath the cove, lots of cultists and necromancers everywhere who are very likely are no pirates themselves.

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Re: What is with all the meta on warlocks right now?

Post by ltlukoziuz » Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:34 am

kinginyellow wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:18 am

I've seen warlocks get caught because they just happened to be stalked by a higher level who was prowling about in stealth looking for ne'er do wells in low level areas like the sewers. (They didn't get PVP'd, they were watched, then reported on, and they'd have no way of knowing they were being watched.)

And yeah then there's the cheese cases where people get accused because they are casting too many spells. The most egregious example I've seen with old lock was someone asking to have flare cast on them in character, because OOC they know that's an eldritch blast.
Oh I wholeheartedly agree with above too. Sussing someone out on just being a silent nobody or just going for a quick jab of "do a flare" (almost had that as Sharran) is equally terrible. But, and this might be a cynic in me speaking, I have seen cases where the opposite is the issue - the ne'er do well is giving absolutely no outs, on a prolonged duration, while doing all the mechanical things of being one. It's not an issue for me atm (as current char is flip floppy on them anyway), but sometimes it feels like it's getting dragged way too much.


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Re: What is with all the meta on warlocks right now?

Post by DM Monkey » Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:31 am

If someone metagames, please take screenshots and report it.

Otherwise, try to do your best to add to the story in a way that everyone can have fun.

If you find out someone's special IC secret, maybe you have other options than 'outing' them right away. Blackmail, dark friendships, squeezing them for favours, all kinds of things can happen in that situation. It's a mix of the warlock needing to be careful and the person finding out about them needing to be considerate toward the story. Both sides should be thinking of the RP involved.

For basic warlock knowledge: If it makes sense for your character to know things, that's cool. If it doesn't make sense for your character to know things, then don't. Pretty easy?

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Re: What is with all the meta on warlocks right now?

Post by Kuma » Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:42 am

fading wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:02 am
ltlukoziuz wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 5:57 am
Echohawk wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:16 pm
Doesn't help when folks go around posting about omens and obviously meta stuff on all the in game boards, which I personally think is kinda freakin lame but. If the DMs don't take it down I guess it's just A O K.
Also, what's wrong with quipping on infinite spells? Should I not be suspicious if someone I tagged along (or they did) end up doing 30+ hold monsters (or any other spell) ?
Being suspicious is okay, but knowing that such things as True Flames exist, I can't imagine your first thought would be warlock and not some type of powerful sorcerer.
yeah honestly if people are stretching this hard to the point they're card-counting warlock spell slots then i think maybe they need to re-evaluate their priorities

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Re: What is with all the meta on warlocks right now?

Post by DM Starfish » Wed Sep 08, 2021 12:55 pm

Regarding the omens. I did a small teaser happening prior to the Warlock update and that is likely what everyone is posting about. It's not metagaming or anything. If however, you feel that you are being accused because of metagaming or some such similar thing please do let us know so we can deal with it appropriately.

If however you out yourself by blasting, summoning fiends, speaking the forbidden tongues or invoking the madness that lurks above that is your own fault.
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Re: What is with all the meta on warlocks right now?

Post by Talexis » Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:15 pm

When I spoke of messages on the Cordor boards I didn't mean the omen, which is just a list of some beings to cone and really says nothing of warlocks. There are literal classes teaching of warlocks and Unseelie and their summons and powers. Now coming from someone that also plays a Seelie fey I can tell you majority of these people that are holding these classes knew nothing of the Fey or Unseelie or Seelie in character when they were interacting with my Seelie Fey and asked questions then they themselves would say they really know nothing of the Fey. That is just one example I can think of.

My point of this post is I get a new evil is exciting and people want to get the rust off their swords and hunt them. But can we at least let things happen naturally? Wait until warlocks have done something that shows hey a bunch of new warlocks are around and it is time to start hunting.

I will also add a lot of players are playing this out really well and not pretending to know everything warlock. I have eldritch blasted around them and they acted like they had no clue what it was because it just shows up as an unknown spell. And when I am casting they are just treating me like a true flames since I also do rest and I try to line up my spells to be similar to those spells that would be infinicast by other classes. So kudos to those players.

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