Why Tieflings?

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Why Tiefling?

Poll ended at Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:32 pm

Mechanically they're one of the strongest classes. I'd love to play a Tiefling for the mechanics of it.
14
15%
It's the cool appearence! Horns! Tails! I want to stand out!
12
13%
The roleplay concepts of tieflings - the flexibility of where they can be, their inner strife, the edgyness - that's what appeals to me!
32
34%
A combination of the above!
25
27%
Other!
11
12%
 
Total votes: 94

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Why Tieflings?

Post by The GrumpyCat » Thu Oct 21, 2021 2:32 pm

So I was looking at our race numbers, and of the 5% options, the most popular by far, at least as far as I can tell, is Tiefling.

We've nearly 50 tieflings in play at present, compared to 10 aasimar. Which made me wonder... why? No other 5% race comes close to that number. So I've put in a small poll, because working out why people like tieflings so much, might help me work out what folk are looking for in award races in general!

Feel free to add more personalized answers below too.
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Re: Why Tieflings?

Post by Edens_Fall » Thu Oct 21, 2021 2:37 pm

While having horns or a tail is pretty sweet, tieflings (due to the options given them) really do add to any build you can think of.

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Re: Why Tieflings?

Post by Morgy » Thu Oct 21, 2021 2:40 pm

They are flexible and fairly unique. They have good RP options available too. Reward races you can’t customise visually don’t hold so much appeal to me either.

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Re: Why Tieflings?

Post by Good Character » Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:05 pm

There was this tiefling character than rose through the Cordor guard until she became its commander. It was some of the most stunning roleplay I had ever seen on Arelith; it sparked contempt for the guard and dissent within its ranks. IIRC the previous commander was assassinated (so they decided to roll), so she took their place. People were questioning the legitimacy of the guard. I heard people were sending assassins after her while others, close friends in high political positions, were defending her fervently and that worsened their status.

All of this truly stirred because she was a tiefling.

I have rolled so many characters trying to get a Greater to play one. Then they were moved to Major once I got a Greater, so I've rolled so many for Majors.

Aasimars are underplayed because they have lineage that pushes them towards good. It's not difficult or detrimental (society-wise) at all to suppress being good, nice, and compassionate as a human.

However, a tiefling is the complete opposite; they have to both suppress their evil ideations and prove they aren't evil. Their nature helps open and legitimize so many paths: evil tyrant, anti-hero, one who wants a quiet, peaceful life but can never truly have it, renowned but mistrusted person of the people, endless chances of betrayal against both sides of their lineage, etc.

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Re: Why Tieflings?

Post by I will never sleep » Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:27 pm

Hello, I can only really speak for myself on this, and this is a hasty typed out response while I'm actually playing the game. I play two tieflings. Why?

Mechanical bonuses are neat, yes, they are essentially trigift characters. Moreover, aasimar are 'uninteresting'- have no physical traits (waste of a major, imo, which is already rare to happen on and soul destroying to grind for. I played with an aasimar who kept their aasimar blood a secret until the very end, and it sparked a big question to me which was: what was even the point? They may as well have just been a regular human.) and I also find being innately drawn towards Evil more interesting and compelling storywise than an innate compulsion towards Good (the good old anti-hero narrative).

There are other majors, such as minotaur and ogre, which I don't think I will ever play, because I don't like playing monstrous races (especially with Arelith's culture) as well as the lack of dynamic models.

I'd be interested in playing a fey if I could play a gloura, but they are just pixies. I'd be interested in playing a firbolg if their lore wasn't incredibly spotty and being discount giants. Avariel are neat but it's very hard to do the aloof ancient dying race thing and have it be a character that lasts longer than 2 months. Tieflings can just be something extra on top of an already fleshed out human, for example.

There are rakshasa and vampires, who have gimmicky benefits with massive weaknesses. Rakshasa's benefits mostly hedging HARD on the disguise system, which I despise. Also require an application (that's a big 'ugh', from most players).

All of these things combined make it obvious to me why tiefling is the most played 5%, and also the only one I have most interest in.

There has always been a trend on Arelith that added physical traits to characters (horns, tails, wings, etc) are 'tacky' and needless and I really don't see why there is such a strong pushback toward it on what is supposed to be an RP server of all things, but that's me. Especially when we're already bending established FR lore a decent amount. Hope my thoughts are illuminating in some aspect.

So the tl;dr: Non-application, good stats, wide RP options, can look neat.

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Re: Why Tieflings?

Post by Killer on the drive home » Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:35 pm

All the positives aside? Vampire is the other voiced desire of many players, but playing a vampire is seen as a trap pick. Vampires aren't weak, and a lack of easy mass heal scroll access was a healthy change for them.

But the comfort level difference between "god I gotta get sOME BLUD" and having the ability to chill at the Nomad's tavern and sip wine as a tiefling is astronomical.

Also sun. Just, the sun. So basically Ive heard from players they considered vampire, but it just seemed too unpleasant, so they picked tiefling.

This vote falls under "other."
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Re: Why Tieflings?

Post by Emotionaloverload » Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:37 pm

I have picked tief over aasimar for the lore and the challenge. On Arelith, if something is good aligned or suspected to be good aligned, it tends not to get much resistance (unless you have devastatingly low CHA) in anything. In fact, it might even help you along on most efforts if people know you are an aasimar. There is little to no mistrust even though the character is still planartouched (I don't understand it but okay).

I tend to hide my 5%s so the appearance features have no sway over me. I do like the new paths available that can give you tons of flexibility in rping either of these but, to me, tief has a lot more options for conflict and growth because of island culture.

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Re: Why Tieflings?

Post by ltlukoziuz » Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:50 pm

Mostly agree on others on why tiefling is popular, though if I got major, I prolly wouldn't play tiefling myself. If you want to do RP influenced by your race - it's awesome and enhances/opens more new avenues to almost anything that you might be planning.

----

I am a bit surprised though seeing people say why they find Aasimar uninteresting. Aasimar don't need to be just "the force for GOOD". They, just as much as tiefling, have the whole same moral dilemmas, trying to prove that they're individuals not influenced by their birthright and heritage, just on the opposite side of scale - and there's enough stories outside of Arelith about those who have fully fallen from grace. Heck, we even have this sentence left in Wiki when describing Aasimar:
Not all Aasimar live up to their potential. An Aasimar Blackguard or Sorcerer of evil is a terrible opponent, and deities such as Shar and Set love to corrupt an Aasimar, turning her into a bitter, angry creature nursing old grudges from unjust persecution.
Now, there is that restriction that "Aasimar can't be evil/Tiefling can't be good", true (though imo, it's not necessary). But you can easily have a more jaded look on the current societies, or only accept part of them, and so come to clashing with established communities. Honestly, the Aasimar who play as pure paragons are what's to me as "most acceptable, but also least interesting" flavor of them.


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Re: Why Tieflings?

Post by -XXX- » Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:59 pm

Players tend to choose award races for one of two major reasons:

- they are looking to outclass everyone else when a particular award race manages to push an already optimized build even further.
- they want to flex with their special appearance character.

Tieflings are at the cross-section of this Venn diagram, offering a bit of both. Additionally, there is virtually no downside to playing one.

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Re: Why Tieflings?

Post by Archnon » Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:00 pm

All I'm hearing is we need some people to roll up Aasimar's to hunt the growing tiefling menace.

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Re: Why Tieflings?

Post by Edens_Fall » Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:03 pm

I'll also add in that at one time to be a tiefling was to be hunted and outcast. Barred from surface settlements and looked on with disgust. I'm not sure when it changed, but to be one on the surface now carries no insta Pariah like it use to. So that helps in picking what to play. Be a vampire and be KB when sighted, no offers of a rez, or a tiefling and chill in cordor while looking fly with a fancy tail.

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Re: Why Tieflings?

Post by Drowboy » Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:52 pm

Tiefling is one of the most popular races in D&D right now period, only makes sense it would stay that way across different media types.
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Re: Why Tieflings?

Post by Inordinate » Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:13 pm

Aasimar being restricted to good/neutral limits their build diversity, though I would be more curious to hear your feedback if that's true at looking at the class choices of the 50 tieflings you see. Do a majority of them use evil (disregard neutral) restricted classes? If so then there's your cause.

If most of the classes allow for neutral picks then I'd say it comes down to wanting to show off the fact you spent a greater/major with your weird feature of choice over any mechanical argument that's been brought up.
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Re: Why Tieflings?

Post by Archnon » Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:06 am

You can give Aasimar some type of visible marker to see if it eventually balances

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Re: Why Tieflings?

Post by a shrouded figure » Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:25 am

Honestly? For me it was two reasons:

1. Tieflings for some weird reason are not shunned on the surface, which makes little sense to me, but hey I’m in.

2. Bloodlines. Tiefling bonuses are literally better for almost any conceivable build in today’s meta. Sorry perception aasimar, ain’t no body needing charisma and wisdom anymore.

- Allure Tieflings are fantastic in how well they stack with any of the evil Cha builds. I’m curious as to the most popular bloodline, but my ten cents would bet allure.

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Re: Why Tieflings?

Post by Echohawk » Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:44 am

I'm not making one, but I could jokingly say "edge", but breaking it down with a few more moments thought.

Reasons to not take?: (Relatively speaking, individual reasons may very)
Access to the Avariel race.
> +2 wis compared to base Moon elf skin, a very elf heavy race (which is fine for some, I'm sure) with climbing skill and those coveted wing appearances. Can't be lawful so no monks/paladins ever possible buildwise.

Access to the Ogre race.
> Monster race so limited to the underdark area/scenarios, weaker version of the minotaur with one less language, and with a skinned race limited customizability .

Access to the Fey race.
> Tiny race, Requires Neutral Good or True Neutral alignment so limited on builds that require lawful and so on. Skinned race limited customizability.

Access to the Firbolg race.
> Large phenotype issues (horses, certain weapons, heads, etc) Can't be lawful so no monks/paladins ever possible buildwise.

Access to the Vampire race, with a very strong application submitted to the DM team.
> Light sensitive 'race' so limited to the underdark area/scenarios, extremely limited to DM Team cap how many can be active/available to take.

Access to the Aasimar race.
> Tieflings but less edge, uncertain access to wings (some do, some don't so ultimate appearance is kind of up to whether it's okayed or not, most of the time it's not). Can't be evil and surprisingly a fair few classes really do need evil as an option, not all of course but you lose less by forcing someone to be neutral evil as opposed to neutral good. (I'm pretty sure, I haven't done the math I'm just thinking like Pale Master and Blackguard vs like Paladin)

Access to the Minotaur race.
> Monster race so limited to the underdark area/scenarios, and with a skinned race limited customizability.

Access to the Rakshasa race, with a very strong application submitted to the DM team.
> ADVANCED Playstyle, one screw up and you're exposed. Also I think it's limited how many can be active in the game due to DM cap? Uncertain.

Access to the Imp race.
> Tiny race, monster race limited to underdark settings/scenarios. Skinned race limited customizability.

Access to RDD PrC Token
> "Free" for kobolds anyway, limited to characters with bard and sorc (omg who would ever sac that many levels for sorc) classes so builds are very few to do.
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Re: Why Tieflings?

Post by Duchess Says » Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:50 am

I'd probably play one if I had to spend a major because to me, what else is there? I don't want to write a "strong" application for vampire or rakshasha that may get rejected. I don't want to play an ogre or minotaur, there's nothing intriguing about that and the possibilities seem really limited in what you could do with them. Imp and fey are cute but seem like novelties not worth a major award (plus I know imp used to be a minor or normal award and would feel cheated). Firblog is the only other possibility, maybe, but I'm not really intrigued and I'd worry about limited options there too.

But a tiefling or assimar background can pretty much be tacked on to any concept +and+ make them more powerful while not making them a novelty act, they can still do everything and go anywhere and join any faction the base race would have. Why not use the major for that? It would either be that or hold it for some other future race to be added in a year or five, and who's to say it would be anything I would want to play. With the 5% customized races gone a major award doesn't feel like anything that valuable any more so may as well use it to give what would have been an everyday elven rogue a little "oomph" mechanically and a backstory with a bit of menace and drama, sign me up.

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Re: Why Tieflings?

Post by Wethrinea » Fri Oct 22, 2021 5:30 am

I do not play a tiefling, but if I had a Major, that is probably what I would go for.

The reason for that is that I like to play characters who evolve in unpredictable ways. And tieflings are an excellent match to to that desire. There is already an innate tilt towards evil, but the tiefling can choose to fight it, try to ignore it, or actively embrace it. The social stigma (where it exists) adds another dimension.

Much the same could be said of Aasimars (also, how many pronounce that as åsimar?), but making someone that has an innate tilt towards good interesting is far harder. The bloodlines available also shoehorn them more into certain classes and play styles.

tldr:
I want to play a tiefling bard.
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Re: Why Tieflings?

Post by Aelryn Bloodmoon » Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:25 am

A combination of a few reasons spring to mind. While the mechanics of a tiefling are certainly nice and inarguably a part of the draw that makes them such a popular five percent race, I'd suspect, more than anything, that it's about the RP avenues it opens up. You could reasonably expect any tiefling of 15th level or higher, if a game goes on that long in a normal tabletop medium, to attract at least some planar attention, perhaps even from the ancestor their blood comes from.

As varied as the planar fiends are, as one can imagine, this opens up a great many possibilities within that field, in addition to the majority of tieflings having a built-in predisposition to a certain sass towards the establishment, or a burning need to prove that they can exist within it, and you have a generic trope that can be as varied and flavorful as the person behind it makes it, which can memorably fit into any RP demographic.

Tieflings are, I imagine, at least for me, appealing because while everyone may roll their eyes at a town full of tieflings, no one can deny that each one has a startling amount of potential to be its own unique flavor, distinct from the one next to it and independently worth remembering. While this is true for characters of any race, the background of a tiefling is 'optimized' for it, as it were, and IMO if you're going to blow a 5%, that's a pretty solid argument.
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Re: Why Tieflings?

Post by Watchful Glare » Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:49 am

I imagine the reasons are simple.

-> It's visually appealing to the 'uniqueness' of it. Horns/tail. (Arelith's limited clothing/armor doesn't help but that's another beast)
-> It's mechanically good. Actually an improvement over base races.
-> It has the possibility for 'uniqueness' rp.

There are no downsides to playing a tiefling.

Aasimar:

-> You play a human with weird colors at best. Unappealing.
-> Mechanically restricted, less options. Still more or less an improvement in some areas.
-> It has the same possibilities for 'uniqueness' RP as Tiefling.

However in a place as freeform as Arelith the last point on either of those shouldn't even be considered as a reason. You can literally play as anything RP wise. I've seen characters that were actually fun and created a lot of adventures for other people be a troglodyte with a human brain transplanted onto them a-la-frankenstein meets dieselpunk. Enlightened goblins. Ilsensine worshippers. Actual hellraise-like cenobites going around and other fleshwarped monstrosities. People doing Eldritch horror RP.

You can do what amounts to limitless 'unique' RP without needing a 5% award to play a Tiefling. It's not even a point.

It's mostly about the first two:

You're not restricted as a monster race, it's unique looking, you can play anywhere, and you get good mechanical benefits to boot.

Give Aasimar's glowing eyes or wings and you'll see how they get picked more.

My impression was that 5% were supposed to be special or more unique choices. Tiefling, with their rare appearances fit the description. Aasimar, not so much. Granted maybe they can have a unique appearance, but the idea about having to plead your case for it to be so doesn't sound nearly as appealing as it being granted just by playing one.

I would say "I'm fairly certain you could move Aasimar to Greater and no one would take it still", but given the lack of appealing Greater Rewards perhaps people would take it by virtue of it being the most appealing thing by lack of competition.
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Re: Why Tieflings?

Post by MRFTW » Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:10 am

I'd phrase the question as 'why not tiefling?'

They're mechanically vastly superior, have better RP avenues and look cooler.

What better way to flex on the poors with bad RNG when rolling characters? 😇

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Re: Why Tieflings?

Post by ltlukoziuz » Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:32 am

Watchful Glare wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:49 am
-> It's mechanically good. Actually an improvement over base races.

Aasimar:

-> You play a human with weird colors at best
-> Mechanically restricted, less options. Still more or less an improvement in some areas.
Slight quibble - arent aasimar and tiefling identical outside of innate spell, +2 skills and neutral/evil vs good/neutral alignments? Aasimar to me dont look any more restrictive compared to tief - same base race choice, same bloodlines with different names, one loses blackguard, other loses paladin.

The visual though, yeah. Hard to stand out as aasimar without description.


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Re: Why Tieflings?

Post by The GrumpyCat » Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:15 am

ltlukoziuz wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:32 am
Watchful Glare wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:49 am
-> It's mechanically good. Actually an improvement over base races.

Aasimar:

-> You play a human with weird colors at best
-> Mechanically restricted, less options. Still more or less an improvement in some areas.
Slight quibble - arent aasimar and tiefling identical outside of innate spell, +2 skills and neutral/evil vs good/neutral alignments? Aasimar to me dont look any more restrictive compared to tief - same base race choice, same bloodlines with different names, one loses blackguard, other loses paladin.

The visual though, yeah. Hard to stand out as aasimar without description.
Tiefling can't be:
Paladin

Aasimar can't be:
Blackguard
Assassin
Hexblade
Pale Master
Zhent classes

Also in rp terms, good alignment is policed far more strongly than evil.
LE Blackguard with 70 ranks in bluff: 'Why yes, we simply must open another orphanage! Also a home for poor,starving little animals, and a soup kitchen too!'
Players: 'Eh, seems legit.'

LG Palading: *Gives a kitten that weed on his boots a dirty look.*
Players: OH MY GOD HE MUST FALL TO EVIL NOW!"
This too shall pass.

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Re: Why Tieflings?

Post by VibeKings » Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:34 am

I'd say the vast majority of tiefling characters are female. There's a reason for that.

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Re: Why Tieflings?

Post by ltlukoziuz » Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:42 am

The GrumpyCat wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:15 am
Tiefling can't be:
Paladin

Aasimar can't be:
Blackguard
Assassin
Hexblade
Pale Master
Zhent classes
Well, Zhent classes are basically Harper classes, so wouldn't pool both together (though fair on the fact harpers are policed more than zhents), but fair enough, forgot about hexblades (thought they could be neutral just like warlocks), assassins and PMs (though considering one of normal rewards is neutral PM, couldn't you get it through application and strong RP justification deep into character?).
Also in rp terms, good alignment is policed far more strongly than evil.
LE Blackguard with 70 ranks in bluff: 'Why yes, we simply must open another orphanage! Also a home for poor,starving little animals, and a soup kitchen too!'
Players: 'Eh, seems legit.'

LG Palading: *Gives a kitten that weed on his boots a dirty look.*
Players: OH MY GOD HE MUST FALL TO EVIL NOW!"
And that's why I will always advocate for more moral dubiousness and fighting back against this mentality IC and why I personally will never play any good alignment outside of CG. Sometimes "the good" side makes me facepalm just how hardcore they will persecute a perceived slight.


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