Arelith Timeline Project

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Kuma
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Re: Arelith Timeline Project

Post by Kuma » Tue Nov 16, 2021 6:55 am

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Unless the DMs have officiated this idea, this is just players creating head-canon justification for why the lost desert is just a copypaste of the 363rd with effects removed when we hastily added a desert island.

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She was not an Archmage.

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Ayin claimed to have invented it. He was probably lying. Also it's called the Shadow Plane. This is also FOIG information about what the potion does. Honestly allof this is FOIG information. I could go through this and correct everything, but much like the last attempt at this by Man in the Moon some years ago, I think this is such a Sisyphean task that will only lead to bickering and arguing over what constitutes canon and how to portray it.

The First Encyclopedia Arelithica (rightly) died in a fire due to the guy who ran it being intensely biased and skewing reports - which would be fine if it was IG, and self-aware, but it was instead a website, and it becomes 'real'. I can see the same problem perpetuating here, especially since so much of this is actually traceable to information from the first EA.

It also constitutes a hagiography of banned players, a lot of the time.

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Re: Arelith Timeline Project

Post by DM Monkey » Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:33 am

Edens_Fall wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:26 am
DM Monkey wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:44 am
Probably a silly question at this point, but we are all clear that things learned OOC on a resource like this should never then be used IC by your characters, right?
Yeppers! It's been stated clearly several times at this point.
Good stuff. Just want to really drive this point home!

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Re: Arelith Timeline Project

Post by magistrasa » Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:21 pm

I generally don't like FOIG stuff being shared. I don't even really like talking OOC or sharing benign info like what character I'm playing (even if I've rolled them). So when I first heard about it, I was iffy on this project - until I read this thread and came to understand Edens_Fall's genuine enthusiasm for the community and its storytelling. You can see even from this thread how much they love and believe in this project, responding to nay-sayers with boundless positivity. That doesn't mean there won't be bias, but just because it won't be the most perfect and pristine information repository ever created by mortalkind, does that mean it shouldn't even be attempted? It's not like there aren't already people rumormongering and sharing embittered OOC accounts of IC events in literally every discord server I've ever seen. I think having an archive of accounts that at least attempts to be unbiased, even if it falls short of that goal, will be more positive than negative.

I totally understand people's misgivings about the whole thing. I'm sure there's going to be people upset with how a character is portrayed (though they may not necessarily be justified in that reaction). Even so, I just think it's a shame that there's such a discouraging response. If someone wants to put in the effort to make something awesome for the community to enjoy, I feel like we should be more supportive! If not through contributions, then at least in attitude.

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Re: Arelith Timeline Project

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:22 pm

Sorry, I was just using the Brandt thing as a placeholder - you can swap it in and out for any significant group of characters/factions.

Kuma does also bring up another really good point. A lot of people perceived to be the "great movers and shakers" in the past were often times one of the following,

a. colossal OOC pricks
b. creeps
c. a/b + banned

Mathas Lyonson assassinated Councilor Naethandreil in the Cordorian Temple District in the early 40s AR. The player also ended up getting banned some time later. (I, myself, might even have the wrong account of this. who knows)

Do you include these histories? Do you honour them? Do you include people who rule breached - abusive, cybering, pvp-mongers, liars and gossipers?

Because the problem with how some of this is framed, is that it's much about the relationship between player-character-server rather than just character-server. Personally, I don't think characters of banned players deserve historical recognition. They broke the rules of the game.

However, this is where get into the rub of what this sets out to do - are we trying to "honour" or "validate" character histories and lore? Are we trying to find out the "truth"?

Big problems with the latter.
magistrasa wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:21 pm
It's not like there aren't already people rumormongering and sharing embittered OOC accounts of IC events in literally every discord server I've ever seen. I think having an archive of accounts that at least attempts to be unbiased, even if it falls short of that goal, will be more positive than negative.
This is very sad. :( Let's start calling them out. I do think, however, you're going to give awful people more ammunition with this kind of work. If there is a sub-goal here of trying to combat vitriol, going through an OOC timeline might not pan out as planned.
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Re: Arelith Timeline Project

Post by Party in the forest at midnight » Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:50 pm

Edens_Fall wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:25 am
I'm not really sure why the Brandt story arc keeps being referenced when there are so many other great plots listed. I'm going to reach out on a limb and say it's a reference to me using this whole project for some personal gain. While the Brandt story was fun at the time I have had others since, two of which aren't being mentioned on the timeline.
People are correcting inaccuracies they see in it. This is one of them. A LOT of people were involved in that era, what is listed is a simplification that doesn't do it justice at all.




With that said, I've got the text of Oskarr's book where the character went and interviewed a bunch of people to try and figure out what happened. They went and interviewed a lot of people involved, this might be the least biased telling.
Tyrran Record & Judgement I : The Battle of Sibayad, involving the von Brandt Family, the Church of Helm, the Concordant, and Cordor - Issues of "Lesser" Evil, Negligence, and Redemption (4)

Herein is record and judgement - not a full history of the events transpired, rather the result of a year-long investigation. Many any warrior of light, peace, or justice, use this text in aiding their course through the islands of Arelith for this is blessed and ordained by the lord-god Tyr.

Written on the 5th day of Marpenoth, year 162 AR, by priest Oskarr of the clergy of Procampur.

Those interviewed to produce this account include: Denny Walvish, Vance Gravelle, Emma Young, Lora Gallenson, Sylvia Naern, Buppi, John, Garinox Isley, Elspeth Derlson, and Edmund Ambelath. Records were drawn from the Radiant Heart, Cordor, Sibayad, and personal correspondence.

FACTS

Tarsakh [iv], 160 AR: Cordor decreed the von Brandt family to have pariah status.
Kython [vi], 160 AR: Laecca Vemc was slain by assassins and Sharrans sponsored by the von Brandt family. This was done in retaliation for the attack on Garinox Isley in Sibayad months prior.
Eleasis [viii], 160 AR: Cordor made peace treaty with the von Brandt family.
Mirtul [v] Flamerule [vii], 161 AR: Hide and seek in Sibayad between the von Brandt family and other forces.
Flamerule [vii], 161 AR: Destruction of Elizabeth the Vampire, death of Emilia von Brandt, and the demise of the von Brandt family.
Nightal [xii], 161 AR: Sylvia Naern killed by Sharrans.

Above is a brief timeline of the events that have transpired. This investigation began in the autumn of 160AR, and could not manage contact with any surviving member of the von Brandt family. We thus must make as many neutral assumptions about the von Brandt family to ensure that history is not written by the victor. Now we begin:

[1] The von Brandt family was branded pariah status by the city of Cordor in early 160AR because of their associations with the city of Andunor, as well as their use of slaves and slavery within the realm of Sibayad.

[2] Laecca Vemc was an elf of Myon and friend of its Black Archers. Laecca Vemc sought Garinox Isley, a necromancer of Andunor, and struck him in the bazaar of Sibayad. Garinox Isley allegedly has put bounty on every do-gooding elf of Arelith. Garinox Isley neither confirmed nor denied this.

[3] Garinox Isleys presence in Sibayad is not fully determinable. He was, however, called upon by Emilia von Brandt and asked how to deal with a vampire. Garinox Isley attests the best destroyers of the undead are the masters of the necromancy school. Isley never met Elizabeth and had only professional meetings with the von Brandts.

[4] Laecca Vemc was friends of Lora Gallenson, former Hand of Bjorn Frostcloak of the Iron Citadel of the 363rd Layer of the Infinite Abyss. Notably former as she was now deemed a betrayer by Bjorn Frostcloak. Lora Gallenson was friends and associates with both Sylvia Naern and Vance Gravelle. The former she had done business with in Sibayad, the latter she had supplied information about Abyssl

[5] The individuals of Vemc, Gallenson, Naern, Gravelle, Buppi, and John are often linked. They are going to thus be loosely referred to as the Concordant until call for attention to a particular individual is required.

[6] Laecca Vemc was provided protection by Lora Gallenson after Vemc attacked Isley. According to Edmund Ambelath, Vemc did not attack Isley as a political will of Myon. However, Vemc was doing Myon a service by going after an enemy of all good-natured elves.

[7] In retaliation to the attack on Isley, the von Brandts hired and conspired with Sharran forces. One named is Godbrand. Laecca Vemc was attacked and killed by these conspirators. The Coronal of Myon took a public stance, opposing the activity of the von Brandts.

[8] Vemc's death mobilized the Concordant to take greater action against the von Brandts. By this point, it had become known the von Brandts were animators, fiendmongers, and allies with Andunor. To such an extent, House Rivorndir cancelled all business with the von Brandts and distanced themselves.

[9] The von Brandts were known slavers and drow-friends. They had association with one nefarious slaver named Lavok Xunvirr. The von Brandts allowed monsters from Andunor to walk freely on the surface in Sibayad's bazaar. The Andunorian presence was motivation for Vance Gravelle and the Concordant, as well as warriors of Myon.

[10] Cordor made a peace treaty with the von Brandts in Elesias [viii] 160AR. This was during the increased activity of the Concordant. Reasons remain unknown as to why Cordor sought peace with the von Brandts. The peace treaty was made at the end of Elspeth Derlson's 2nd term as Chancellor.

[11] Sibayad was becoming less and less of a free town that it was meant to be. Denny Walvish attests the von Brandts were acting with confidence of the Merchants League. The Concordant states the presence of biased lawmaking, grooming young adventurers to be faithful guards, association with Andunor, presence of slaves, and use of nefarious arts all proved the contrary.

[12] "Grooming" adventurers must be noted because Denny Walvish, and likely others of his status, were not made privy to all the machinations of the von Brandts. According to Elspeth Derlson, Denny Walvish and other young guards were likely exploited by the von Brandts.

[13] During this time (Elesias 160AR Flamerule 160AR), Denny Walvish was a mercenary for the von Brandt family as well as a member of the Gauntlet, the military branch of the Church of Helm. Denny Walvish joined the Gauntlet after he renounced his faith to Bane and joined the faithful of the Red Knight.

[14] Denny Walvish's induction into the Gauntlet was not done by its leader Jensen Whisper, but rather High Watcher Emma Young. This is the third individual Emma Young has sought to help find redemption. The other two prior were Marton Cain and Aurin.

[15] Marton Cain was a former slave and/or Zhentarim, and Ilmateri and exploited his relationship with the Church of Helm. He was put to trial by former High Justice Hospitality, and Emma Young provided testimony. She was responsible for his induction into the Church. Aurin was a Helmite but enslaved by Lavok Xunvirr. He was a double-agent. It is unknown how much information was shared or exchange

[16] Denny Walvish was a member of the Gauntlet in the months of Mirtul to Flamefule 161AR. This was the sleepover or hide and seek period of the von Brandts, where they sought to find the final resting place of Elizabeth the Vampire.

[17] Elizabeth the Vampire was a young vampire "girl" - her precise age is unknown. She was adopted as a kind of daughter to Emelia von Brandt. Her relations with Andrea von Brandt and Talia von Brandt are unknown, as they are both still in hiding.

[18] Denny Walvish, supported by Emma Young, believes the hide and seek was a period where the von Brandts sought to destroy Elizabeth. The Concordant, Myonian warriors, and some of the Radiant, believe that the von Brandts were continuing ritual sacrifice of innocent civilians to Elizabeth the Vampire.

[19] Witness account believes innocents as far as Guldorand were consumed by Elizabeth the Vampire. Material evidence has not been found to support this account.

[20] The Battle of Sibayad, 161AR, occurred in the month of Flamerule. According to Denny Walvish, the von Brandt was defending Sibayad from a horde of undead. Farah the Water-girl was allegedly killed in this attack. After repelling the horde, the von Brandts made way to the desert to find and hopefully destroy Elizabeth. The Concordant attests there was no undead invasion, they did find Farah dead.

[21] Both forces met in the desert. The Concordant asserts that Emelia von Brandt had a procession of innocents she was going to offer to Elizabeth the Vampire. Vance Gravelle opposed this. Vampires, pit fiends, and a dracolich were summoned by the von Brandts. The Concordant did battle and were the victors.

[22] After this battle, was when the von Brandts allege to have finally destroyed Elizabeth the Vampire. The Concordant asserts the battle ended in the destruction of Elizabeth. With Elizabeths destruction, the von Brandt family found their demise.

[23] During the Battle of Sibayad, Denny Walvish was an active member of the Gauntlet. According to Emma Young his involvement in Sibayad and with the von Brandts was a personal matter. He was not representing the Church of Helm or the Gauntlet order at this time.

[24] The fall of the von Brandts and the destruction of Elizabeth returned Sibayad to more peaceful form. There have been few or little reports of monsters roaming the bazaar since. Or innocents going missing in the desert to be found blood-drawn.

[25] Denny Walvish was one of the foremost warriors of the von Brandt. After the battle, he was brought on as retainer for House Derlson of Cordor. Elspeth Derlson believes Walvish is a good man. Emma Young has taken responsibility for his education, alongside Dennys wife Vahm. Walvish has confessed that he would subject himself to any punishment for his involvement with the von Brandts.

[26] Denny Walvish was tasked to be in charge of the Almshouse. He has received no other kind of punishment. He remains a member of the Gauntlet and retainer of House Derlson. He appears to confess most willingly of his guilt compared to those who seek his redemption.

[27] After the battle, Sylvia Naern publicly accused Emma Young that she had warned her of Walvish and that he would fight on behalf of the von Brandts. Sylvia Naern accused Emma Young of some combination of incompetence, negligence, or misguided belief. Some in the Concordant support Naerns accusation. No member of the Church of Helm took part in the Battle of Sibayad, save Denny Walvish.

[28] We must turn to Vance Gravelles history to find a balanced account. Vance Gravelle was a former High Priest of Cyric. He worked in Andunor. He never intended to enslave surfacers, only destroy those he thought were foul. He has committed countless horrific acts. He is no longer priest of Cyric and claims to be now a priest of Oghma.

[29] Lora Gallensons faith in the Abyssal Holy Mother, was known to most, if not all, the Concordant. The involvement of Vance Gravelle and Lora Gallenson was one reason given by Emma Young as to why the Church of Helm did not involve act against the von Brandts. Emma Young was not made aware that the von Brandts were animators, fiend-mongers, and drow-friends prior to her interview.

ISSUES

[30] There are several issues in the case before us,
1. Was the Battle in Sibayad between two lesser evils, insinuating that the Battle of Sibayad was not of just or righteous cause?
2. Was Sylvia Naerns accusation against Emma Young, and the Church of Helm, true?
3. How much does guilt of association and redemption fit into the depiction of Denny Walvish, Vance Gravelle, and Lora Gallenson?

TYRRAN THOUGHT

[31] Some on the sideline claim the Battle of Sibayad was fought between conspiring necromancers and a washed-up Cyricist. Based on the facts provided, this is untrue. The Battle of Sibayad had one distinct amoral side the von Brandts. There are too many allegations of them feeding innocent lives to Elizabeth, that they outweigh Denny Walvish's testimony.

[32] Without Elizabeth the Vampire, the known acts of slavery, association with Andunor (as exemplified by Emelia's meetings with Garinox), animation, and fiendmongering all make them guilty of unholy crimes. In this given period, the Concordant has not committed unholy crimes. They are, however, not the most pure individuals.

[33] Many seek to deflect conversation onto a battle between evil and a lesser evil. This reminds me of a Tyrran proverb, You must fight the necromancer, and imprison the thief. In that order. A warrior of Lights first and foremost focus is always on the great and unholy evil. If a Tyrran believed the necromancer and thief were of equal importance, he would quickly become indecisive and fall to inaction.

[34] The severe danger the von Brandt's imposed required action. Conversations towards "lesser evil" undermines the animation, fiend-mongering, and drow-friending. The actions of the Concordant, Myon, and others who fought alongside them, uphold pillars and tenets of Triadic faith. Including, "reveal the truth, punish the guilty, right the wrong."

[35] In an utopian world, all battles fought by warriors of Light would involve only themselves. Lora Gallenson should not be relied upon to fight animators but her action is only noted because of the inaction of many. Vance Gravelle should be outnumbered by warriors of Light but his presence is only noted because he was not overshadowed by soldiers of righteousness.

[36] "Redemption is a road, not a place," was written by Priest Evitcus of Cormyr in his famous treaties on redemption in 1142 AR. It still resonates with much of the Tyrran faith. The Church of Helm and Elspeth Derlson has relied upon treating redemption as a place, not a road.

[37] Denny Walvish continues to operate freely with little restraint in Cordor and the island at-large. His charge of the Almshouse as his only punishment is not proportionate to his association of the von Brandts during the Battle of Sibayad timeline.

[38] I believe Denny Walvish to be a good man. However, Tyrrans must also turn to another teaching, "A judge's word means little if the town throws him out of the inn." Because he has not been forced to undergo trials of penance, there is too much leniency. He did not deserve execution but instead some combination of hard labour, house arrest, daily reconciliation, and imprisonment.

[39] The display of leniency towards Denny Walvish undermines faith that the likes of the Church of Helm and Elspeth Derlson have any concept of justice. To maintain confidence in judicial administration, we must seek a mixture between atonement, proportionality, and mercy.

[40] Lastly, we know "redemption is a road, not a place." It's an impossible task to weigh and measure the crimes of Denny Walvish against the crimes of Vance Gravelle. Both most undergo life-long journeys of redemption. Both must seek atonement always. Both must be penitent and subservient to the gods of light and good. Only Kelemvor can judge them in the end if they are, indeed, redeemed.

[41] Lora Gallenson's presence throughout the Battle of Sibayad is a more noteworthy point of disdain. Working alongside an Abyssal who displays no regret or penance for such faith or association, is a sticking point. The Concordants actions are mired by this association, but not overshadowed. We must seek to do better in the days to come.

CONCLUSION AND JUDGMENT

[45] Returning to our issues: the Battle of Sibayad was fought to destroy the animators, fiend-mongers, and Andunor-friends who protected a murderous vampire. The cause of the Concordant was just and righteous. Not all who fought the von Brandts, however, are pure of heart and history. This does not overshadow, only sour. There is work to be done.

[46] The Church of Helm displayed negligence or willful blindness in allowing Denny Walvish to be a Gauntlet and fight for the von Brandts. The Church of Helm should atone for their association with the von Brandts. Absolving Denny Walvish of any form of punishment is a display of extreme leniency that undermines the teachings of justice.

[47] The extreme leniency is mirrored in Elspeth Derlson and the city of Cordor both in the peace treaty of the von Brandts, and the retention of Denny Walvish under House Derlson. Cordor has displayed willful inaction to slavery in the surface realm. Who seeks peace with animators and fiendmongers?

[48] The Concordant should not have relied on Lora Gallenson, who is the only among her, Denny Walvish, and Vance Gravelle, to display no form of regret or guilt for her unholy associations. Repeated reliance will undermine righteousness - "fighting devils alongside demons should only be the final resort."

[49] But that leads us to the final, concluding remark. Where were the warriors of Light? Why did a fight against those who hire Sharrans, protect a murderous vampire, animate the dead, and summon fiends, be left to the motley crew of the Concordant? Only Myon spoke out against the von Brandts and did battle. Where were the rest?

[50] Justice, truth, and valor can only be achieved by the willing and the able. The Battle of Sibayad remains a tragic victory, for righteous overthrew slavery, but it was not done BY the righteous. Rather, the righteous were somewhere else I cannot tell you where. Let us pray to the lord-god Tyr they may return to battle when we need them.

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Re: Arelith Timeline Project

Post by Nitro » Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:08 pm

I like to see stuff like this more as IG efforts rather than OOC ones, that leaves room for people to use it IC and the inevitable biases can be reacted to in character.

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Re: Arelith Timeline Project

Post by serono » Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:37 pm

Party in the forest at midnight wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:50 pm
....
While most of these informations are not relevant to current characters ingame, they may very well be to future characters!
Please please dont share such detailed ingame informations on the forum or other out-of-character mediums.

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Re: Arelith Timeline Project

Post by Ork » Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:44 pm

serono wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:37 pm
Party in the forest at midnight wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:50 pm
....
While most of these informations are not relevant to current characters ingame, they may very well be to future characters!
Please please dont share such detailed ingame informations on the forum or other out-of-character mediums.
That is what this thread is about, and why sharing OOC events of history is muddled in the fact that it blurs the line of what is discoverable in game & out of game.

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Re: Arelith Timeline Project

Post by Party in the forest at midnight » Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:45 pm

serono wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:37 pm
Party in the forest at midnight wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:50 pm
....
While most of these informations are not relevant to current characters ingame, they may very well be to future characters!
Please please dont share such detailed ingame informations on the forum or other out-of-character mediums.
This is literally a book in-game. It's in a number of libraries. Anyone can learn this. And what Ork said... This is the problem with this project. This is the least biased telling of the story I've seen, and gives a lot of details that are otherwise left out. This is the real story. This is why the Brandts were relevant. This is why people cared. And if the telling of all of this OOC makes people uncomfortable, then should this project even exist?

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Re: Arelith Timeline Project

Post by Zavandar » Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:02 pm

That book posting contradicts a lot of what was written prior and discussed in discord.

Testament to the issues a project like this has.
Intelligence is too important

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Re: Arelith Timeline Project

Post by serono » Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:03 pm

Party in the forest at midnight wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:45 pm

This is literally a book in-game. It's in a number of libraries. Anyone can learn this. And what Ork said... This is the problem with this project. This is the least biased telling of the story I've seen, and gives a lot of details that are otherwise left out. This is the real story. This is why the Brandts were relevant. This is why people cared. And if the telling of all of this OOC makes people uncomfortable, then should this project even exist?
It does exist in-game, correct. And as such it can be dealt with ingame. But on the forums? No character with an agency can reach it.
Now I believe there is a difference between a timeline with short historical notes and a very detailed list of events.

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Re: Arelith Timeline Project

Post by wulfburk » Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:05 pm

Maybe every single entry should have a reference to an in-game book available in the public libraries? And said entries should be just a 1 paragraph summary with no great details in comparison to the in-game books they are referencing, so people will not think this timeline substitutes in-game research.

Otherwise i think such an ooc timeline should focus entirely on settlement political history. Just simply describing who was Cordor chancellor 100 in game years ago, some specific crisis, alliances and wars between settlements. Factions come and go, settlements stay, and its not that strange a new dwarf character knowing the exact line of Thanes, or a cordorian being familiar with the overall political history of that city. There are so many factions that come and go that you're igniting a powder keg in trying to decide which are worthy of an entry, which of them should have their creation in the timeline, or etc. Factions that are "important" in one side of the isle can be completely meaningless to the other side, and vice versa. Which is different from, say, settlements.
Last edited by wulfburk on Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Arelith Timeline Project

Post by Zavandar » Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:07 pm

serono wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:03 pm
Party in the forest at midnight wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:45 pm

This is literally a book in-game. It's in a number of libraries. Anyone can learn this. And what Ork said... This is the problem with this project. This is the least biased telling of the story I've seen, and gives a lot of details that are otherwise left out. This is the real story. This is why the Brandts were relevant. This is why people cared. And if the telling of all of this OOC makes people uncomfortable, then should this project even exist?
It does exist in-game, correct. And as such it can be dealt with ingame. But on the forums? No character with an agency can reach it.
Now I believe there is a difference between a timeline with short historical notes and a very detailed list of events.
And yet short historical notes can be just as (potentially) misleading. Both can be used to metagame, too.
Intelligence is too important

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Re: Arelith Timeline Project

Post by DM Avalon Soul » Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:35 pm

The story of Zanshibon is actually not correct based on that SS for sure.
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Re: Arelith Timeline Project

Post by Edens_Fall » Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:37 pm

DM Avalon Soul wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:35 pm
The story of Zanshibon is actually not correct based on that SS for sure.
Thanks for letting me know! As Kuma mentioned this was player head cannon? I never would have known about it until this very moment reading the forums.

If I'm blunt that's the idea behind the project. To correct the old timeline and misconceptions with real and proper input.

Only when people share information can it be corrected

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Re: Arelith Timeline Project

Post by Edens_Fall » Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:43 pm

Party in the forest at midnight wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:45 pm
serono wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:37 pm
Party in the forest at midnight wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:50 pm
....
While most of these informations are not relevant to current characters ingame, they may very well be to future characters!
Please please dont share such detailed ingame informations on the forum or other out-of-character mediums.
This is literally a book in-game. It's in a number of libraries. Anyone can learn this. And what Ork said... This is the problem with this project. This is the least biased telling of the story I've seen, and gives a lot of details that are otherwise left out. This is the real story. This is why the Brandts were relevant. This is why people cared. And if the telling of all of this OOC makes people uncomfortable, then should this project even exist?
I mentioned it before, but even playing in the Brandt faction we as players weren't privy to alot of what was going on everywhere. The Brandts main goal was turning Sibayad into a settlement like city. Most the extra drama that the island cared about we knew next to nothing of, or at least I didn't. We can only use information that is known or given to us. If anyone else was around at that time wants to share their players part I'd be more then happy to include it.

That goes for any other part of Areliths history. If you see a mistake please let us know!

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Re: Arelith Timeline Project

Post by Edens_Fall » Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:25 am

Kuma wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 6:55 am
Image

Unless the DMs have officiated this idea, this is just players creating head-canon justification for why the lost desert is just a copypaste of the 363rd with effects removed when we hastily added a desert island.
Corrected
Kuma wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 6:55 am
Image

She was not an Archmage.
Can you clarify? Was she still part of the tower and just not a mage? Did she led the tower as a non-mage OR is this whole entry incorrect?
Kuma wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 6:55 am
Image

Ayin claimed to have invented it. He was probably lying. Also it's called the Shadow Plane. This is also FOIG information about what the potion does.
Updated
Kuma wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 6:55 am
Honestly allof this is FOIG information. I could go through this and correct everything, but much like the last attempt at this by Man in the Moon some years ago, I think this is such a Sisyphean task that will only lead to bickering and arguing over what constitutes canon and how to portray it.

The First Encyclopedia Arelithica (rightly) died in a fire due to the guy who ran it being intensely biased and skewing reports - which would be fine if it was IG, and self-aware, but it was instead a website, and it becomes 'real'. I can see the same problem perpetuating here, especially since so much of this is actually traceable to information from the first EA.

It also constitutes a hagiography of banned players, a lot of the time.
I'm not against the PC's of banned players being in the timeline. There are any number of reasons one can be banned. I'm not going to sit in judgment when that is the role of the DMs.

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Re: Arelith Timeline Project

Post by Edens_Fall » Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:29 am

wulfburk wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:05 pm
Maybe every single entry should have a reference to an in-game book available in the public libraries? And said entries should be just a 1 paragraph summary with no great details in comparison to the in-game books they are referencing, so people will not think this timeline substitutes in-game research.

Otherwise i think such an ooc timeline should focus entirely on settlement political history. Just simply describing who was Cordor chancellor 100 in game years ago, some specific crisis, alliances and wars between settlements. Factions come and go, settlements stay, and its not that strange a new dwarf character knowing the exact line of Thanes, or a cordorian being familiar with the overall political history of that city. There are so many factions that come and go that you're igniting a powder keg in trying to decide which are worthy of an entry, which of them should have their creation in the timeline, or etc. Factions that are "important" in one side of the isle can be completely meaningless to the other side, and vice versa. Which is different from, say, settlements.
We have thought about this in idea fact. Though I would like to involve the EA folks with such an idea, as I would love the two projects to be linked. The timeline making reference to IG materials which can then be linked to the EA's archive as an example. However, that's for down the road when things are settled and assuming EA wants to work together. For now, we shall see how things go and if it turns out to be successful, we will reach out to them for collaboration.

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Re: Arelith Timeline Project

Post by Edens_Fall » Wed Nov 17, 2021 1:34 am

Party in the forest at midnight wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:50 pm
With that said, I've got the text of Oskarr's book where the character went and interviewed a bunch of people to try and figure out what happened. They went and interviewed a lot of people involved, this might be the least biased telling.
Thanks for the extra information! I've updated the entries. Please let me know if you see anything else out of sorts!

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Re: Arelith Timeline Project

Post by stoneheart- » Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:20 pm

Edens_Fall wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:25 am
Kuma wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 6:55 am
Image

She was not an Archmage.
Can you clarify? Was she still part of the tower and just not a mage? Did she led the tower as a non-mage OR is this whole entry incorrect?
Shaalira was a smiter-paladin (as in, heavy armor, scimitar, and big critties on folks of evil persuasion), I have no idea how anyone thought she was a mage of any kind.

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Re: Arelith Timeline Project

Post by Emotionaloverload » Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:58 pm

I would really love to see this IG. This is something that could generate a ton of rp.

Nevertheless, I will help where I can.

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Re: Arelith Timeline Project

Post by Edens_Fall » Wed Nov 17, 2021 5:34 pm

stoneheart- wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:20 pm
Edens_Fall wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:25 am
Kuma wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 6:55 am
Image

She was not an Archmage.
Can you clarify? Was she still part of the tower and just not a mage? Did she led the tower as a non-mage OR is this whole entry incorrect?
Shaalira was a smiter-paladin (as in, heavy armor, scimitar, and big critties on folks of evil persuasion), I have no idea how anyone thought she was a mage of any kind.
Did she led the Tower at all then or have any role there?

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Re: Arelith Timeline Project

Post by Drowboy » Wed Nov 17, 2021 5:39 pm

This whole thing and especially the more granular "what was this characters role" stuff really feels like it should be strictly ig.

'but it might be wrong!' good.

The keeping or not of a full and Real True timeline should be done by the dms, not players
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Re: Arelith Timeline Project

Post by ltlukoziuz » Wed Nov 17, 2021 5:42 pm

Yeah, I have to echo most others. Just listing the events themselves without names is fine'ish, kinda. But absolutely any mention of people involved - that should be strictly FOIG. I don't want my or anyone else's characters to be attempted to unravel OOC. That should be completely a matter for in game to do. If they're forgotten, then that's fine, means they were meant to forgotten. If they're mythos'd and no longer match what happen, that's also awesome - carving out their own part in Arelith's Mythology. We should not attempt to hamper that attempting to create OOC source of truth.


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Re: Arelith Timeline Project

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:59 am

Edens_Fall wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 5:34 pm
stoneheart- wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:20 pm
Edens_Fall wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:25 am



Can you clarify? Was she still part of the tower and just not a mage? Did she led the tower as a non-mage OR is this whole entry incorrect?
Shaalira was a smiter-paladin (as in, heavy armor, scimitar, and big critties on folks of evil persuasion), I have no idea how anyone thought she was a mage of any kind.
Did she led the Tower at all then or have any role there?
She "had a role."

To keep tabs on Red Wizards? To protect Spellhold? Because Archmage Valiney was an aasimar and friend and ally? Because she got a long with Enserric? Becauase the player had fun farming RDI with snarky epic wizards? Because the Arcane Tower was bopping and scheming and very anti-Banite at the time?

Who knows.

I feel gross/weird getting into it. It would be like me trying to answer questions about Ayin or Feste or Daedin or Trintiren.

People shouldn't be writing other character histories unless it is done in-game.
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